Author Topic: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad  (Read 48143 times)

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garry

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2004, 10:59:55 AM »
And THANX to Marlespro for such a great guide.  We followed it to the letter and got out of the Embassy with Nick's Consular Notification and passport to arrive via mail in two weeks.

Differing only slightly from her FAQ, but worthwhile to note anyway:  My wife and I had to undergo about a 30 minute interview by the Consular Officer.  I think it was because my wife's Russian, but don't really know for sure.

They asked me stuff like where did I attend High School?  What were the school colours?  (PURPLE & GOLD)  Where did I attend undergraduate school?  What was the mascot of that university?  (the PIRATES!).  Where did I attend graduate school?  What was the name of the neighborhood for that school?  (FOGGY BOTTOM, DC).   Where was I born?  (BROOKLYN).  In what neighborhood?  (FLATBUSH).  Where did I attend elementary school?  (LACY).  How did we meet?  (CYPRUS, 2000).   And they went on like that for a while, asking lots of off-the-wall questions about my life that only.  I assume it was a fishing trip to see if I was truly who I said I was...

...and then another guy came and they asked Tatyana to swear that I was the father (cheeeesh).

And then done!  So in some cases, you might get an interview! 

Offline Marlespo

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2004, 12:28:20 PM »
Wow - that was interesting! Fortunately, as far as interview goes, the questions are easy as long as you are who you are! :D Thanks for your input into the situation, as I'm sure you're not the first or last to have a few questions thrown at you. And I'm glad it went so easily! ;D
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Offline Tracy K

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2004, 07:32:29 AM »
Sorry Marlespro to be picking up on this again, but I wonder if readers in the parents section might have some insight. My daughter's now been born and the issue has raised its ugly head again. For whatever reasons my husband doesn't want my daughter to have an American passport.  He's a Brit, and I got my British citizenship this year. Has anybody tried recently just traveling on British passports as Brits? Does anyone have any ideas?

Offline Shahbanou

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2004, 08:49:08 AM »
Does your British passport show your place of birth as the US? If so, then you run the risk of being asked why you are not travelling on your US passport, as well as why your child isn't on a US passport. 

Offline Marlespo

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2004, 07:49:49 PM »
The only problem Tracy, is that technically is is illegal to fly into the US using a UK (or any other) passport if you are eligible for a US one... which your child is. Yes it is basically forcing citizenship on your child - but well... thems the rules.  :-X You could risk it and just never get them their UK pasport and have them fly on their UK one, but there is a huge risk of them getting caught, and I've never been one to mess around with IMmmigration as - now more than ever - they are very, very grouchy people. The could slap a hefty fine on you, or eve deny him acess in the future.  If there is any possibilty of your child wanting to travel to the US, ever, then I'd say go ahead and get it. I appreciate that your husband doesn't want that, but honestly... dual-citizenship can be a real benefit to a child and plus... that whole "against the law" thing.  :-\\\\
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Offline Leah

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2004, 11:16:28 AM »
Tracey, I'm in a similar situation, my husband also is against getting their passports, just because he thinks it's a silly requirement, no other reason.

expat_in_scotland

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2004, 11:57:26 AM »
Tracey, I'm in a similar situation, my husband also is against getting their passports, just because he thinks it's a silly requirement, no other reason.

My husband did not want our child to get one if it had been male, b/c he does not want him to have to register for the draft.  I agree, it's a Big Brother requirement; it should never be legal to force citizenship on s/one.  In fact, it'd be great to see a test case challenging this ridiculous rule in a high court.  I mean, what if such a child goes on to be the next JK Rowling or Richard Branson and makes millions.  Does that mean he/she has to be taxes to a nation he/she has never lived in? 

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2004, 12:23:13 PM »
Quote
My husband did not want our child to get one if it had been male, b/c he does not want him to have to register for the draft.

One of the reasons our little man hasn't been registered.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2004, 01:12:39 PM by Cait »
Insert wonderfully creative signature here …

Offline misch

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2004, 01:04:48 PM »
You guys, as a lawyer and someone with a vested interest (I am now a dual citizen, too), I have done some research on this.

Section 215(b) of the INA [8 USC § 1185(b)] requires, in general, that any US citizen who is either leaving or entering the US must be in possession of a valid US passport. This requirement applies even in the case of a dual citizen travelling between the US and his other country of citizenship. A person in such a situation may therefore need to take two passports for the trip -- one from the US, and one from the other country.

Certain exceptions to the US passport requirement are spelled out in Section 53 of Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations [22 CFR § 53].

A US passport is not required, for example, when travelling between the US and adjacent countries in the Western Hemisphere, such as Canada or Mexico (but not Cuba). However, other proof of US citizenship (such as a birth certificate or a naturalization certificate) -- together with a photo ID -- may be required at the border in lieu of a US passport. Note that a driver's license or other photo ID, by itself, is not considered acceptable proof of US citizenship by border officials.

Another exception to the US passport requirement exists for young children with dual US/other citizenship. A dual-citizen child under age 12 may travel without a US passport if he or she is listed as a dependent in the foreign passport of an alien parent. In such a situation, other evidence of the child's US citizenship (such as a birth certificate) will have to be shown when returning to the US. Note, however, that this exception may be of limited usefulness if the airline being used chooses not to honor it.

I would also note the following:

When a native-born American citizen takes on a foreign citizenship by a routine oath of naturalisation, the US government applies a "Uniform Standard of Evidence" not to question the intent of such a person to retain US citizenship. This new tolerance of dual citizenship is about 14 years old, and it is not written in a statute. Rather, it is a mere change in State Department policy. Note that the relevant statute on US citizenship continues to state that naturalisation abroad is a "potentially expatriating act"!

In any event: I see as risky any acts by US expats who have become citizens of other countries by naturalisation if the act might be seen as inconsistent legally with intent to retain US citizenship, such as travelling into the US on a non-US passport. Indeed, I think trying to travel into the US on the other passport would mean you would have to fill in a form requesting a visa waiver, thus implying legally that you could be subjected to visa requirements in certain circumstances - it almost sounds like documentary evidence of your intent NOT to retain US citizenship, doesn't it??!!.

I would counsel Americans who are dual citizens, whether by birth in the US, by birth outside the US to American parent(s), or naturalisation, to use only a US passport when travelling to the US. It is not worth the hassle to try to skirt this.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2004, 01:14:37 PM by misch »

Offline Kristi

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2004, 05:03:28 PM »
Well to add another kink to this..

I have a good friend who has an American mother and a Spanish father.  She was born in Spain but has lived in the US.  She has a US passport and an EU passport (she was registered as a birth abroad).  Her husband is from Sicily so he has an EU passport as well.  They live in London and are expecting their first baby in May.  She asked me if the baby was entitled to a US passport.  I sent her the web pages from the US Embassy about registering the baby's birth but she said there was something in there about needing to reside in the US before the baby was born in order to get a passport. 

So.. I'll pass this off to my friends who are embassy experts (and Katie who works there!).. is their baby entitled to a US passport?  Is it as simple as going to the embassy with the birth certificate?  I didn't know what to tell her other than call the embassy or go down there and ask. Anybody know?  Thanks in advance..
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Offline misch

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2004, 05:14:34 PM »
Kristi,

It is a complicated question of how long she lived in the US and when, and where her parents were born and where they now live. I can't answer it without looking into it a bit further. I suggest she go to the consulate with her information and see what they tell her. I don't believe it is open and shut, but that is just a guess, not legal advice!


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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2004, 05:26:42 PM »
Thanks Misch..  her mom was born in Arizona (and lives in So. Cal) and her father is from Barcelona (and lives there now).  I don't know how long she lived in the US but I can find out.  I'll tell her to call the embassy...

:)
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Offline sweetypeabee

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2004, 09:38:55 PM »
Thanks Misch..  her mom was born in Arizona (and lives in So. Cal) and her father is from Barcelona (and lives there now).  I don't know how long she lived in the US but I can find out.  I'll tell her to call the embassy...

:)

Have her call the embassy. The baby may be able to have US passport. The people on the phone will be able to get all her details and figure out if the baby is intitled to US citizenship. If you need any more help then that let me know  :)

Offline Kristi

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2004, 09:53:26 PM »
Thanks Katie.  I'll tell her to call.   :)  I knew you'd know!
However mean your life is, meet it and live it: do not shun it and call it hard names. Cultivate poverty like a garden herb, like sage. Do not trouble yourself much to get new things, whether clothes or friends. Things do not change, we change. Sell your

Offline Tracy K

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Re: Consular Notification thingy of Birth Abroad
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2004, 07:49:37 AM »
Oh dear thanks for such comprehensive counsel, misch, but it does make for grim reading.

It's so frustrating that they don't respect the citizenship of another country enough to let it stand on its own, to let us travel on its merits. In a separate complaint, I am really annoyed that I have to drag my little baby all the way to London (for those of us who don't live there it's a big deal, country mice and all that) when I don't even like to take her into Norwich.

I wish I didn't have to make these decisions for her. Though it looks like the actual decisions are mostly made for me.

Do you know if registering the birth and getting the passport then make my daughter a US citizen, or does that come separate? When I got my dual citizenship in Britain I was first a citizen then got my passport. They seem to be the same thing on the American side.