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Topic: Blackmail  (Read 5380 times)

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Blackmail
« on: March 22, 2009, 08:22:49 PM »
I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this, but I need a bit of advice. And a vent, but I don't want to give too many details.

To make a long story short, and to not incriminate myself by saying bad things about someone - I was sent blackmail via email that if I didn't do something the blackmailers wanted (in this case, turn a website I own over to them), they would tell everyone how horrible I am to work with and "go public with their complaints about me and my actions" (which, let me tell you...there's nothing there but the lies they make up!) and noted that it wasn't a threat, it was a promise. 

Now, we've taken a look at Wikipedia, and the wiki says that blackmail is against the law in the UK.

There are two girls involved, one is a USC and one is a UKC.  The email was sent from the UKC's email address (but the message was signed with both first and last names of the USC and UKC).  I'm currently on UK soil (for another two weeks) but am a USC. 

Is there any action I can take based on this?  Tim think that since I'm currently on UK soil, the UK law would apply and the UKC at the least would get slapped with something.

 I've already "caught" them at talking about me behind my back - The USC is also on Tim's LJ friends list, and she filtered a locked post away from me but not away from Tim (which I assumed was her way of trying to get me angry. If I called her out on it, then she would somehow have used it against me that I "spied" on her through Tim or something), where the USC and UKC both basically slammed me.  It's unknown if anyone else had access to seeing the post though, or if it was a deliberate Tim only filter to try to get to me.  (and it wasn't anything nasty, either. Basically, I keep 2 LJs,and I removed them off my super-highly sensitive/filtered/private LJ because I felt I could no longer trust them, and the two of them were discussing that)

I don't really know if I'd want to proceed with anything, because I think in the end that would lead to more trouble than it's worth, but really, what I'd like is to just be able to scare them. 

Oh, and I have five days to reply or they "go public".  The only response I've given so far is an acknowledgment of seeing the message. 

http://blog.beccajanestclair.com

Met Tim Online: 2004 ~ Met IRL in the US: 6/2005
Engaged: 23/09/2009 ~ Married:  05/11/2009
Biometrics Submitted: 28/12/2009 ~ Spousal Visa Application Submitted: 12/31/2009
Spousal Visa Issued: 31/12/2009 ~ Move Date: 21/1/2010


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2009, 08:44:16 PM »
Hi there

sorry to hear of what you're going through, can you provide a little more on

1. Whats a 'USC'?
2. Whats a 'UKC'?
3. what's a 'LJ'?
4. Did they send email from their personal email addresses?
5. Did they message you via your own website?

Do you personally know these people in real life? if not, what will they gain from you 'turning' over your domain name to them? - if they're unknown to you in real life, then it sounds like someone who 'wants' your domain name and is using underhand tactics to scare you into giving it over for free for them to register it in their name or something.

if you do know them in real life - then it's totally shocking. Don't beleive everything you read on Wiki - remember, it's edited by anyone. You'll need to get a copy of whatever these people have said to you and speak to a lawyer to get the low down on if and what laws have been broken. It's not libel as yet, their 'threats' to go public haven't occured. if they do post, then you've got to show the lawyers that's the case and you've suffered significant problems becuase of it. If these people are known to you and they're doing this - could they get 'nasty'? if so, only you can decide if it's worth 'reporting' this. Trying to scare them back? if as you say they're making stuff up and havent got a leg to stand on when it comes to backing up their 'claims' then really you've got nothing to worry about and maybe they're calling your bluff.

Now I 'think' - USC = U.S Citizen? UKC = UK Citizen? LJ = Live Journal? - If it's Live Journal, speak to the owners of the Live Journal hosts/providers - there could be a clause of 'not using the service to send defamatory/threatening'  messages etc , If that service is based in another country then you'd be bound byu that countries laws etc I think.


Hope the above helps a bit? - but initially, please seek help from a suitable lawyer to know where you stand.

Cheers ! DtM! West London & Slough UK!















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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2009, 08:51:55 PM »
Yep. USC = US Citizen, UKC = UK Citizen and LJ = LiveJournal.

 LJ only does something if someone calls you out by first name + last name on LJ and in a public entry.  Just posting "so and so is a b*tch" even if they link to your LJ doesn't give you recourse for anything. They have to use BOTH first and last names before it becomes a legal matter, and it has to be in a public entry. 

Yes, I know them both personally offline.  I've spent time with both of them separately.

The Wiki part about the blackmail being illegal *is* true.  I've checked that out.  The parts I don't know is if the countries matter, etc.

But like I said, I don't' really want to proceed with anything, I just want to know what the actual law is so I can at least inform them what *could* happen.

--
Honestly, it gets better and better.  Neither one of them think they're blackmailing because they're "giving me options".  Uh.  So, the option is "do what they want or they say x about me".  Der.  Sounds like blackmail to me!
http://blog.beccajanestclair.com

Met Tim Online: 2004 ~ Met IRL in the US: 6/2005
Engaged: 23/09/2009 ~ Married:  05/11/2009
Biometrics Submitted: 28/12/2009 ~ Spousal Visa Application Submitted: 12/31/2009
Spousal Visa Issued: 31/12/2009 ~ Move Date: 21/1/2010


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2009, 08:54:20 PM »
Anna,

Out of curiousity, what are the reprecussions to you if they do carry out their threat?
And if you threw a party
Invited everyone you knew
You would see the biggest gift would be from me
And the card attached would say
"Thank you for being a friend!"


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2009, 08:59:05 PM »
Anna,

Out of curiousity, what are the repercussions to you if they do carry out their threat?

Nothing physically harming to me. Basically, they want an excuse to ruin my reputation.  I'm a mean, horrible person who chose to walk away from a conflict instead of lashing out in anger and I should just do what they want. 

Oh, and I'm a stroppy teenager for walking away from the conflict to get calm, and their response is to issue ultimatums and other nastiness.

In the long run, my friendships are over with the two of them, and I probably will just allow the website to die a slow death and not bother to renew it....and let them wait 6 weeks for it to become available again.  Seems like the best solution, even if I want to keep it.  At least if I do that, they really can't go through with their threat promise.
http://blog.beccajanestclair.com

Met Tim Online: 2004 ~ Met IRL in the US: 6/2005
Engaged: 23/09/2009 ~ Married:  05/11/2009
Biometrics Submitted: 28/12/2009 ~ Spousal Visa Application Submitted: 12/31/2009
Spousal Visa Issued: 31/12/2009 ~ Move Date: 21/1/2010


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2009, 09:06:42 PM »
Hiya

So is the 'website' a domain name that you've registered? or is it something within this Live Journal website? - I presuming the latter.

So after 6 weeks of you not renewing it, the 'site' will just be switched off? if that happens, can any one of them 2 plonkers take it over and 'switch it back on' again?

As per Mort's question and in my initial response 'what will they gain from having the site' ?

Sounds as though now they're just doing squabbling playground style tactics - and doesn't really sound worth speaking to a lawyer about etc. Seeing as you probably won't be seeing them in real life anymore, I'd say just ignore any threats, and carry on with your website/section of live journal ..

Can always have some heavies visit them for some conversation with knuckle! *cough cough* !!



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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2009, 09:10:40 PM »
No no, I don't mean are their gripes justified: even if you are evil and petty (which I'm sure you're not,) their methods don't put them in a position to cast aspersions.

I mean, rather, well..so what if they carry out their "promises?" Will that be very harmful to you? For example, what do they mean by "go public?" Would you lose friends? Your job? Some kind of standing?

Internet mudslinging is usually just stupid, but it can have very serious professional and personal consequences sometimes, so I'm just wondering would this be one of those cases?
And if you threw a party
Invited everyone you knew
You would see the biggest gift would be from me
And the card attached would say
"Thank you for being a friend!"


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2009, 09:18:30 PM »
No no, I don't mean are their gripes justified: even if you are evil and petty (which I'm sure you're not,) their methods don't put them in a position to cast aspersions.

I mean, rather, well..so what if they carry out their "promises?" Will that be very harmful to you? For example, what do they mean by "go public?" Would you lose friends? Your job? Some kind of standing?

Internet mudslinging is usually just stupid, but it can have very serious professional and personal consequences sometimes, so I'm just wondering would this be one of those cases?


Hiya

So is the 'website' a domain name that you've registered? or is it something within this Live Journal website? - I presuming the latter.

So after 6 weeks of you not renewing it, the 'site' will just be switched off? if that happens, can any one of them 2 plonkers take it over and 'switch it back on' again?

As per Mort's question and in my initial response 'what will they gain from having the site' ?

Sounds as though now they're just doing squabbling playground style tactics - and doesn't really sound worth speaking to a lawyer about etc. Seeing as you probably won't be seeing them in real life anymore, I'd say just ignore any threats, and carry on with your website/section of live journal ..

Can always have some heavies visit them for some conversation with knuckle! *cough cough* !!



an actual domain I own that the three of us run/ran.  They want it for their own.  Which is completely fine and had they worded their request differently, probably would have gotten a "sure, whatever. take it".  But given their recent actions, it changes my mind, know what I mean?

Mort - that's actually the bigger issue. I don't know what kind of consequences it would have. For instance, go ahead and slander AnnaOnTheMoon. No big deal, I'll get new handles on all the boards I post on.  But slander first name last name, and yes, it could have severe consequences for me. "going public" is an unknown to me. I'm not sure if they mean public as in on the website we ran, public as in on LJ, or where.  If it's just contained to their shiny corner of the web, I don't care. If they b*tch about me on locked LJ entries, I don't care.  It's the main worry that they'll do things to attempt to ruin my reputation on other places - here, barenaked.net (a fan site for barenaked ladies that I'm heavily involved in), etc. Not that I think anyone would take what they said seriously, but it seems like an awful lot of drama for them to get their way, and if I can say to them "you broke the law with what you said. Stop it or I will be contacting a lawyer", I'd feel so much better. 
http://blog.beccajanestclair.com

Met Tim Online: 2004 ~ Met IRL in the US: 6/2005
Engaged: 23/09/2009 ~ Married:  05/11/2009
Biometrics Submitted: 28/12/2009 ~ Spousal Visa Application Submitted: 12/31/2009
Spousal Visa Issued: 31/12/2009 ~ Move Date: 21/1/2010


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2009, 09:32:45 PM »
A few things:

1. I'm sorry you're going through this and your "friends" are both poopy-heads.

2. I don't know if you have a legal leg to stand on here, and hopefully someone with knowledge of the issue will chime in, but even if you do, I'd still think twice about telling them you'll contact a lawyer if that is something you're not willing to do.

3. Illegal or not, dollars to donuts, what they are doing is harassment as defined by their internet service provider or email provider, so forward the email to abuse@theiremailhost.com. Warning, this probably won't do much.

4. I don't know how much you want to escalate this, and if there's only been one email, I'd probably hold off, cause it's a pretty big step, but if they are in school, and especially if they are using the school email or school servers to send this stuff, I'd find some kind of administrative contact to forward these emails to. Meghan Meiers story is pretty fresh on people's minds so something with a subject of "Students in your school are blackmailing/harassing me, has a fair chance of getting noticed.

5. How moderated are the forums on which you participate? How likely are they to get very far in slamming you without getting banned?

6. Start signing them up for pr0n and spam lists. :) No no, just kidding! Don't do that. Well..I'd probably do it, but I'm a small and petty person like that. Don't be like me.

ETA: One more thing: if you think it'll end the matter and you don't really care very much, you can opt to just save yourself the agita and transfer the domain. Yeah, they'll probably pet themselves on the back about what skilled little a-holes they are and how they won, and that does sting, but then again there is the cost of mental space you won't have to waste on people like that if this whole thing just goes away. In other words, if you think this will just create a pattern and this is just the beginning, or if there's another legit reason to do so, by all means, take a stand. But consider not digging in your heels just for the sake of digging in, no matter how odious they are or how good it'll feel "to serve them right!"
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 09:37:57 PM by Mort »
And if you threw a party
Invited everyone you knew
You would see the biggest gift would be from me
And the card attached would say
"Thank you for being a friend!"


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2009, 09:58:20 PM »
Blackmail, coercion, extortion are illegal in both the UK and US.  You may have standing to sue/turn over to police in either country.

YOU need to decide what you are going to do first.  Are you willing to go to an attorney?  Are you willing to go to the police?  If not, then let it go.  If so, then do as you mentioned -- say what they are doing is in fact illegal and you will speak to a solicitor blah blah.

To be honest, it all sounds dumb.  I would just ignore them and let them say what they want since it really isn't going to cost you a job or something like that.


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2009, 10:10:34 PM »
A few things:

1. I'm sorry you're going through this and your "friends" are both poopy-heads.

2. I don't know if you have a legal leg to stand on here, and hopefully someone with knowledge of the issue will chime in, but even if you do, I'd still think twice about telling them you'll contact a lawyer if that is something you're not willing to do.

3. Illegal or not, dollars to donuts, what they are doing is harassment as defined by their internet service provider or email provider, so forward the email to abuse@theiremailhost.com. Warning, this probably won't do much.

4. I don't know how much you want to escalate this, and if there's only been one email, I'd probably hold off, cause it's a pretty big step, but if they are in school, and especially if they are using the school email or school servers to send this stuff, I'd find some kind of administrative contact to forward these emails to. Meghan Meiers story is pretty fresh on people's minds so something with a subject of "Students in your school are blackmailing/harassing me, has a fair chance of getting noticed.

Nah, we're all past the age of school.  The one woman involved is actually closer to Tim's age than I am, which makes the behavior even more shocking.

[quote[
5. How moderated are the forums on which you participate? How likely are they to get very far in slamming you without getting banned?

6. Start signing them up for pr0n and spam lists. :) No no, just kidding! Don't do that. Well..I'd probably do it, but I'm a small and petty person like that. Don't be like me.
[/quote]


Other than the one that we supposidly run together, I'm here, barenaked.net, and  I'm a rare poster on other boards that i'm not sure about, but I'm pretty sure if they showed up here or on .net, they'd get their ass handed to them by a mod.

LOL I did mention to Tim that if I turned over things to them and lost my admin@ web address that I'd start signing it up for spam just to get the one girl who wants to take over as admin.  


Quote
ETA: One more thing: if you think it'll end the matter and you don't really care very much, you can opt to just save yourself the agita and transfer the domain. Yeah, they'll probably pet themselves on the back about what skilled little a-holes they are and how they won, and that does sting, but then again there is the cost of mental space you won't have to waste on people like that if this whole thing just goes away. In other words, if you think this will just create a pattern and this is just the beginning, or if there's another legit reason to do so, by all means, take a stand. But consider not digging in your heels just for the sake of digging in, no matter how odious they are or how good it'll feel "to serve them right!"

Yeah, I know.  I *did* contact Dreamhost about not renewing it through, and I found out that if they want to transfer it it will take longer than the 5 days before the auto-renew, so I still have to pay for it to renew or the transfer wouldn't work. (well, I'd have them pay me for it)

I just hate the idea of rolling over and letting them walk all over me.  you know?


Blackmail, coercion, extortion are illegal in both the UK and US.  You may have standing to sue/turn over to police in either country.

YOU need to decide what you are going to do first.  Are you willing to go to an attorney?  Are you willing to go to the police?  If not, then let it go.  If so, then do as you mentioned -- say what they are doing is in fact illegal and you will speak to a solicitor blah blah.

To be honest, it all sounds dumb.  I would just ignore them and let them say what they want since it really isn't going to cost you a job or something like that.

But it could cost me a job in the future.  Employers like to google their applicants.  If they googled and found a bunch of crap about me, how likely would they be to hire me?  THAT's what i'm concerned about. 
http://blog.beccajanestclair.com

Met Tim Online: 2004 ~ Met IRL in the US: 6/2005
Engaged: 23/09/2009 ~ Married:  05/11/2009
Biometrics Submitted: 28/12/2009 ~ Spousal Visa Application Submitted: 12/31/2009
Spousal Visa Issued: 31/12/2009 ~ Move Date: 21/1/2010


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 10:12:43 PM »
I suggest that you refer them to this case...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/mar/22/news.uknews

I know Mr Smith, the man involved in the case.  I know the name of his (reasonably priced) lawyers.  I know that, as well as getting £10k off the woman in this case he also settled out of court with another party, for a figure rumoured to be about £40k.  I also know that the woman in this article is facing bankruptcy.  I suggest that you tell them all this, and see if they back off. If they have half a brain they will.

I am not sure if the police would get involved in this though.

Vicky


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 10:53:37 PM »
But it could cost me a job in the future.  Employers like to google their applicants.  If they googled and found a bunch of crap about me, how likely would they be to hire me?  THAT's what i'm concerned about. 
Does this really happen?  Would it be likely that some junk written on a LiveJournal will get linked to your actual name, enough to show up in a google search and cost you a job?

If so, then awesome, you can sue for libel and totally win.


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 11:19:16 PM »
Would it be likely that some junk written on a LiveJournal will get linked to your actual name, enough to show up in a google search and cost you a job?



Whether or not it actually costs her a job doesn't matter.  If there is malicious intent, she can sue.

Vicky


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Re: Blackmail
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2009, 11:24:40 PM »
Whether or not it actually costs her a job doesn't matter.  If there is malicious intent, she can sue.

Vicky


That's only in the UK though, I think (not that it matters, cause UK law applies here.) In the US, I believe you need to prove actual harm.
And if you threw a party
Invited everyone you knew
You would see the biggest gift would be from me
And the card attached would say
"Thank you for being a friend!"


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