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Poll

Those currently in the UK who are or who were on the family path:  would you (or your spouse) have qualified for a UK spousal or fiance visa under the proposed new rules?

Yes
60 (53.6%)
No
52 (46.4%)

Total Members Voted: 105

Voting closed: June 19, 2012, 07:44:06 AM


Topic: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y  (Read 38339 times)

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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2012, 08:30:15 AM »
Besides, people can't discriminate. But the government isn't a person. 

Also, this is being (or will be) applied equally to all people who don't meet the requirements so I'm not sure if discrimination will hold up.

They only people they're descriminating against is British people living in Britain.

Another EU national wouldn't have this problem, nor would a British national, working/living in Spain/Germany.


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2012, 08:34:10 AM »
But they are allowed by law to pass laws that affect their own citizens.

I'm not saying I agree with the plans, although 18,500 isn't lawyer or doctor territory, only that I'm not sure discrimination claims are going to work.


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2012, 09:20:07 AM »
But they are allowed by law to pass laws that affect their own citizens.

I'm not saying I agree with the plans, although 18,500 isn't lawyer or doctor territory, only that I'm not sure discrimination claims are going to work.

I agree, £18,500 isn't in lawyer/doctor territory, it's above what a lot of people earn "up north".

They don't need that much to get by/integrate etc etc, "down south" they might need a lot more.

Housing costs can eat up most of that around London, for example, whereas in "the north" it'll be a fraction of that amount.  They should have set the level at a percentage of the mean/median income based on the proposed area of settlement.
 




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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2012, 09:28:36 AM »
frankly i wouldnt be surprised if within a few days this was overturned due to people finding it to be discrimination

Caitlin, these new rules aren't brand new information; they didn't suddenly just get announced out of thin air, they've been in the pipeline for well over a year and we've known about them for months.

UKBA released a consultation about them back in August/September 2011 and the general public had a chance to speak up back then if they opposed them and felt they were discriminatory.

We've been discussing them here on UK-Yankee for several months now and there have also been several government speeches and statements made in the news about them. We were originally thinking the new rules would be implemented in April, so July is actually later than expected.

This latest announcement is the final consolidation of the changes... they aren't going to overturn the new rules because it's too late for that - we're well past the overturning stage now and the new laws have passed in parliament.

It may be the case that they will change the rules again in the future, but it's not going to be in the next few days... more likely next few years, if at all.


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2012, 09:34:06 AM »
IMO any changes will be after someone has success in the courts.  Much like the stupid over 21 rule that they changed recently.

I can see someone, mid-track on the new five year track, losing their job and getting a lower paid job (£18,000 for arguments sake).  They'll be able to prove they've been supporting themselves on the lower amount and would have a very very good argument in court.

It'll all take a very long time and many plans/lives will be put on hold/ruined in the process.


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2012, 09:34:32 AM »
It may be the case that they will change the rules again in the future, but it's not going to be in the next few days... more likely next few years, if at all.

How long was it before having to be 21 for a spouse visa law got overturned? Surely if these are going to be changed, it will take at least that long? And it was years!


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2012, 09:52:46 AM »
I can see someone, mid-track on the new five year track, losing their job and getting a lower paid job (£18,000 for arguments sake).  They'll be able to prove they've been supporting themselves on the lower amount and would have a very very good argument in court.

But in the situation where the applicant no longer makes over the threshold at the "check-in" stage, they would just be moved onto the 10-year path and be allowed to remain in the UK.   It would be hard to argue in court that UKBA should be forced to keep them on the 5 year path when their Article 8 rights were still being maintained.

This (IMHO) is the really "clever" bit of these rule changes.   They've turned the 10 year rule from being a very unusual, exceptional case into a catch-all silo that they can use to defend these new rules from court challenges.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 10:15:30 AM by MalcolmB »


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2012, 09:57:59 AM »
But in the situation where the applicant no longer makes over the threshold at the "check-in" stage, they would just be moved onto the 10-year path and be allowed to remain in the UK.   It would be hard to argue in court that UKBA should be forced to keep them on the 5 year path when their Article 8 rights were still being maintained.

Good point, so in reality, you can't be kicked out on maintenance grounds anymore after the initial settlement visa is awarded?

What would happen to someone on the current 2 year route if they failed the maintenance requirement at the time of application?  Would they be deported or placed onto the new 10 year path?  As I understand it, they very rarely refuse on maintenance grounds using the current rules?

Using the current rules, how much, in savings would you need to cover the requirements for ILR, following a job loss just before the ILR application, just trying to cover all bases!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 10:00:36 AM by Shandy »


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2012, 10:12:27 AM »
I'm not sure we've ever seen someone refused on maintenance grounds from an in-country application, because the "safety net" of an alternative 10-year path was not part of the rules.

For your second point, my understanding is that for ILR applications under the new rules, you just need your savings + income to be greater than the threshold.  The "multiply by 2.5" rule does not apply.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 10:13:59 AM by MalcolmB »


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2012, 10:24:52 AM »
What would happen to someone on the current 2 year route if they failed the maintenance requirement at the time of application?

Would they be deported or placed onto the new 10 year path?  As I understand it, they very rarely refuse on maintenance grounds using the current rules?

I've never seen anyone on the current path fail the maintenance requirement for ILR (not that there really is one, to be honest).

They essentially just have to show that they haven't accessed public funds in the 2 years and that they earn enough that they don't need to access public funds in the future.

So essentially, if they have survived sufficiently for the last 2 years without claiming public funds, then they should get ILR. If they have accessed public funds, then the ILR is likely to be refused based on illegally claiming public funds rather than on maintenance funds.

I believe at the moment, someone who is refused ILR may be granted Discretionary Leave... as they seem to be getting rid of discretionary leave, I would guess that they would transfer them to the 10 year path instead - it would depend on what it says in the transitional arrangements.

Quote
Using the current rules, how much, in savings would you need to cover the requirements for ILR, following a job loss just before the ILR application, just trying to cover all bases!

As I said, there isn't really a specific maintenance funds requirement for ILR... they just have to show that they haven't accessed and won't need to access public funds in the future (even though once they have ILR they are allowed to claim public funds anyway) - so any savings will be helpful... it's going to depend on individual circumstances.


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2012, 10:29:11 AM »
As I said, there isn't really a specific maintenance funds requirement for ILR... they just have to show that they haven't accessed and won't need to access public funds in the future (even though once they have ILR they are allowed to claim public funds anyway) - so any savings will be helpful... it's going to depend on individual circumstances.

Cheers, do you think a years worth of £111 would be enough?  Just trying to think of what I'd do if it all went wrong just before the application for ILR was due in.


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2012, 12:07:13 PM »
Caitlin, these new rules aren't brand new information; they didn't suddenly just get announced out of thin air, they've been in the pipeline for well over a year and we've known about them for months.

UKBA released a consultation about them back in August/September 2011 and the general public had a chance to speak up back then if they opposed them and felt they were discriminatory.

We've been discussing them here on UK-Yankee for several months now and there have also been several government speeches and statements made in the news about them. We were originally thinking the new rules would be implemented in April, so July is actually later than expected.

This latest announcement is the final consolidation of the changes... they aren't going to overturn the new rules because it's too late for that - we're well past the overturning stage now and the new laws have passed in parliament.

It may be the case that they will change the rules again in the future, but it's not going to be in the next few days... more likely next few years, if at all.


yeah i know that, but i just hope someone sees this as the bullshit it is, because its really not fair. im glad my SS would be taken into account but at what they want it would take me a hell of a long time to save up


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2012, 12:09:19 PM »
Besides, people can't discriminate. But the government isn't a person. 

Also, this is being (or will be) applied equally to all people who don't meet the requirements so I'm not sure if discrimination will hold up.

it technically is if nobody but the super rich can get this easily


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2012, 12:17:37 PM »
It's not just the super rich.  It is 18,500 a year.  It is money, but it isn't super rich. 

I'm admin and if I were working full time I'd be earning more than that and I have been at my job for about two years.   

Also, the gov't can set it at any rate it wants.  There are laws against discrimination involving race and nationality and disability, but I don't think there is anything against people who don't have the funds.  As long as it is applied equally to all types of people I don't see how someone can argue discrimination. 


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Re: Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2012, 12:22:06 PM »
it technically is if nobody but the super rich can get this easily

The average salary in the UK is something around £25-26K depending on your source.  Even for people who are new to the workforce (under 1 year), the average salary is  over £19,000.  £18,600 is most certainly not super-rich.   


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