Dual Citizenship - U.S. / Irish. Can I retire in Northern Ireland?

My wife and I have recently retired and would like to move to Northern Ireland.  I have dual citizenship U.S. / Ireland.  My family came to America from Northern Ireland.  We have had the opportunity to visit a number of times and would like to explore the opportunity to move to Northern Ireland. 
Any assistance that can be offered regarding whether or not this is even feasible or perhaps I am just dreaming will be greatly appreciated.  I am a complete novice in regard to such things as health care, driving, insurance, etc., etc., etc. 
Thanks in advance for taking time to assist.

Were you born in America or Northern Ireland?

As an Irish Citizen, you are also an EU citizen, which means you can reside in any EU member state, including the United Kingdom. The question is whether or not your wife is a dual citizen. If she is not, she will have to apply for a visa to move with you. I'm not an expert on NHS care in NI so I guess someone else will have to answer that.

Good luck!! I love the UK and Ireland so I'm sure you will enjoy it!

If you were born in the US, I assume you have Irish citizenship through registration of birth abroad?  Both my mother's parents were born in NI (Co. Tyrone:  Fivemiletown and Bready) so that is what I did.

When I retired 3 years ago I came to the UK (England) to join British husband.  It seemed straightforward at the time.  Irish citizens have the right to "settle" in the UK (have the right to reside) and after living here for 5 years are considered "permanently resident".  As a retired EEA citizen you would be exercising your treaty rights as a self-sufficient person.  As regards your wife, you would have to investigate the rules for family members of EEA migrants settled in the UK.  https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

Where are you thinking of moving to?  Good luck.

My wife and I have recently retired and would like to move to Northern Ireland.  I have dual citizenship U.S. / Ireland.  


 I am a complete novice in regard to such things as health care, driving, insurance, etc., etc., etc.  
Thanks in advance for taking time to assist.

As an Irish citizen, you can have free NHS as soon as you reside in the UK as there is an agreement between the UK and RoI that will mean you are settled as soon as you reside. Because of that agreement, Irish citizens do not have to comply with the stricter EU rules when they reside in the UK and the same for Brits moving to RoI.

As you will have to use the EEA route to bring your wife and you won't be in work in the UK, under EU Free Movement rules your wife will not be allowed free healthcare from the UK's NHS and she will need to buy full insurance (known as a Comprehensive Sickness Insurance) to cover all her medical bills.

When I retired 3 years ago I came to the UK (England) to join British husband.  It seemed straightforward at the time.  Irish citizens have the right to "settle" in the UK (have the right to reside) and after living here for 5 years are considered "permanently resident".

I thought that under that agreement, Irish citizens are permanent residents as soon as they reside in the UK (and vice versa)? Because of that rule, we have instant access to each others full welfare state and to each others healthcare system as soon as we reside, even if we don't work.

I know that EEA citizens have to reside for 5 years to apply for PR and during that 5 years they have to remain a "Qualified Person" at all times. The same rule for EEA citizens who live with their UK citizen spouse in the UK. This rule doesn't apply for Brits or Irish citizens living in each others country.

For other EEA citizens, it is different again if they retire to another EEA country as often their own EEA country has to pay all their health bills in the EEA country they retired to, or they pay all their own medical bills. We are not allowed anything from the EEA country that we move to in retirement (unless it is Brits and Irish retiring to each others country).

For British citizens retiring to another EEA country, the rules changed in April 2015. Now many have found themselves having to pay their own medical bills in that EEA country they retired to because the UK will no longer pay. The UK paying is now linked to being in receipt of the UK state pension. The UK EHIC changed too recently and now not all healthcare is covered by the UK if you visit another EEA country and it never covered medical bills if you reside in another EEA country.

Home Office documentation for settlement of Irish citizens is very hazy. There is nothing clearly set down to define the situation.  Obviously the Irish are EEA citizens but there is an older relationship between Ireland (the island) and the main island (and Isle of Man) as evidenced by the Common Travel Area.  So Irish can enter the UK as "settled" and are entitled to health care and can even vote but I believe must wait the 5 years (as other EEA migrants) before being regarded as "permanent".  This would be roughly the equivalent of ILR although no stamps appear in passports.  The Irish person could then apply for naturalisation, subject to discretion of Home Office.  This is only what I have gleaned from various sources so could be wrong.  And also no telling when it could all change!

Home Office documentation for settlement of Irish citizens is very hazy. There is nothing clearly set down to define the situation.  Obviously the Irish are EEA citizens but there is an older relationship between Ireland (the island) and the main island (and Isle of Man) as evidenced by the Common Travel Area.  So Irish can enter the UK as "settled" and are entitled to health care and can even vote but I believe must wait the 5 years (as other EEA migrants) before being regarded as "permanent".  This would be roughly the equivalent of ILR although no stamps appear in passports.  The Irish person could then apply for naturalisation, subject to discretion of Home Office.  This is only what I have gleaned from various sources so could be wrong.  And also no telling when it could all change!

Treated as PR when we reside, but we/they can't have PR for 5 years?

Yep, UK citizenship is discretionary and not a right for those who ask to naturalise.

I read that if an Irish citizen has a child born in the UK then that child has UK citizenship. The same for Brits on the Island of Ireland too of course, but only if they hold or are allowed the correct UK passport out of the 6 UK passports there are.

Interesting and complicated stuff.

Things change all the time. Worse for those using EU laws as there is no transitional protection when those change, or when countries change things within existing EU laws!

"An Irish citizen residing in the UK and exercising EU rights ... acquires the right of permanent residence after 5 years.  You can apply for British Citizenship after you have been resident for 12 months after you became entitled to permanent residence i.e. 6 years in total.  You should apply for a permanent residence certificate because whilst it is not legally necessary it will make it easier then to apply for naturalisation."

 --- from justanswer.co.uk/law website sometime in 2014

I cannot find anything in official rules and regulations on this -- either current or archived.

My family came to America from Northern Ireland.

If the OP's parents were born in NI then he may be British as well, but then he should avoid obtaining a British passport otherwise his wife may be forced to get a spouse visa using reasoning akin to the McCarthy case.

If the OP's parents were born in NI then he may be British as well, but then he should avoid obtaining a British passport otherwise his wife may be forced to get a spouse visa using reasoning akin to the McCarthy case.

If someone is born a UK citizen, not applying for a UK passport won't change that fact.

"An Irish citizen residing in the UK and exercising EU rights ... acquires the right of permanent residence after 5 years.  You can apply for British Citizenship after you have been resident for 12 months after you became entitled to permanent residence i.e. 6 years in total.  You should apply for a permanent residence certificate because whilst it is not legally necessary it will make it easier then to apply for naturalisation."

 --- from justanswer.co.uk/law website sometime in 2014

I cannot find anything in official rules and regulations on this -- either current or archived.

I understood Irish citizens are considered settled immediately upon arrival to reside in the UK, but that status is not the same as permanent residence?

Common Travel Area Guidance:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-travel-area-cta/common-travel-area-cta
Information for British Citizens living in Ireland:
https://www.gov.uk/living-in-ireland

I take that to mean: for example, I have a Canadian-Irish friend with a Canadian spouse. If they wanted to live in the UK (excluding NI), the have the option of going either:

1. the EU route
2 the spousal visa to ILR route to UK citizenship, as the Irish citizen is settled upon arrival.

Now both paths take 6 years and the first is less costly, with slightly more limitations. Once, it might have been better to go the spousal route if one wanted the UK passport more quickly.

Or

3. they could live in NI via the EU route and after 3 years, the Canadian spouse would qualify for an Irish passport, the cheapest and fastest option to an EU passport. 

Or maybe I am totally wrong. The haziness of CTA privileges makes the options difficult to decipher.
     

Or maybe I am totally wrong. The haziness of CTA privileges makes the options difficult to decipher.
    

Exactly! It's like they really don't want us to know anything.   [I may know more about CTA next week ...]

Exactly! It's like they really don't want us to know anything.   [I may know more about CTA next week ...]

Please enlighten me if you find out more..... 

Please enlighten me if you find out more..... 

Will do.

MLG -- I sent you a PM on this but may have gone astray.  Or else you've got several?
Let me know.

BD