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Topic: grammar skills in the UK  (Read 3400 times)

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  • Britannicaine
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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2015, 01:59:55 PM »
@alisonr good grief, i know my english wasnt great in my posts because i'm on a freaking message board not writing The Great Gatsby here

;)

The Great Gatsby, which was set in the 1920s, a time renowned for the introduction of new slang terms, you mean? A time when many people shook their heads over the decline of the English language? That Great Gatsby?

It's really easy to memorise a few points of grammar then pounce like a tiger of the jungle on anyone who falls foul of them and adopt a superior attitude. It's a lot more challenging to learn about how language works and understand how it develops and why people say things in the ways that they do and why some of the rules exist in the first place. Challenging, but so much more interesting, and makes you a more engaging conversationalist.

I am a recovering grammar pedant and judgy person. Recovery has been a really rewarding experience. I've learned a lot and become a better human. Anyone who is tempted to say "What kind of toothless moron leaves a comma out of that sentence?" I invite you to join me on my path to wellness. We can do it together!
On s'envolera du même quai
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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2015, 02:14:04 PM »
@historyenne you? a judgy person? nooooooo. so let me get this straight. you're a former judgy person who asks others to join her in not pouncing on other's mistakes and adopting a superior attitude but then turns around and does precisely that. all i did was give a few examples of how i also noticed instances of bad grammar but in the end you are telling me I need to study language and linguistics...nope, doesn't sound like you are being superior at all.

And I don't think you need to study linguistics to know what when people stop using actual words in a language that's made up of words, that language is declining.


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2015, 02:20:49 PM »

The Great Gatsby, which was set in the 1920s, a time renowned for the introduction of new slang terms, you mean? A time when many people shook their heads over the decline of the English language? That Great Gatsby?

It's really easy to memorise a few points of grammar then pounce like a tiger of the jungle on anyone who falls foul of them and adopt a superior attitude. It's a lot more challenging to learn about how language works and understand how it develops and why people say things in the ways that they do and why some of the rules exist in the first place. Challenging, but so much more interesting, and makes you a more engaging conversationalist.

I am a recovering grammar pedant and judgy person. Recovery has been a really rewarding experience. I've learned a lot and become a better human. Anyone who is tempted to say "What kind of toothless moron leaves a comma out of that sentence?" I invite you to join me on my path to wellness. We can do it together!

I'm in the same boat as you historyenne!! Recovering grammar pedant.  Unless you're already arguing about grammar, pointing out bad grammar is usually just petty. It took me a long time to realize that one. I'll still always cringe and gag every time I hear "pressie" or "brekkie," but I know I'm a better person now for not going on about how terrible they sound to me. It much more fun to learn about how and why these things come into being in the first place.

On a similar note, got any insight into the British nicknaming trend of using the first 2 letters of someone's name and adding a "z?" I am always confused by this one. Like Kaz for Karen or Gaz for Gareth.


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2015, 02:24:39 PM »


And I don't think you need to study linguistics to know what when people stop using actual words in a language that's made up of words, that language is declining.

The point we are making is that the concept of "actual words" is a false one. New words are coined all the time. They seem improper at first, but gradually they become part of regular and correct usage. This is the precise reason that the OED adds new words every year.


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2015, 02:40:48 PM »
@alisonr and my point is that it would do people well to learn how to write and speak correctly. It's a good skill to have that would probably help people do better in life. I'm not saying "LOL" and "OMG" aren't becoming part of the lexicon, anyone who has eyes can see that. My point is if that's all you know, you probably don't sound very intelligent. And I don't see how you can love language and grammar but be excited by "LOL" etc taking over in place of any actual words.

There's no doubt in my mind, text-speak etc, will take over but as a writer, I also think that is super depressing. Sure, it's fine in chats but it makes the attention span so short there is less and less need to write anything of substance because people will not take the time to read it. As it is, some news outlets only report in twitter like bullets points, not even full stories. But if you think this is exciting and a good thing, more power to you I guess?


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2015, 03:10:05 PM »
I think people are too easily offended by things that have little importance.

If I were to make a statement like "I think Trump is a nut case".......and then someone disagrees with me.....why would I be upset at that?
Fred


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2015, 04:02:53 PM »
On a similar note, got any insight into the British nicknaming trend of using the first 2 letters of someone's name and adding a "z?" I am always confused by this one. Like Kaz for Karen or Gaz for Gareth.

I am pretty sure it comes from Oxford....the school. They were little "inside" sort of social cues. I think I read where the first one was "ruggers" for rugby. As in, "I say Rog, are you going to the dance after ruggers?"

Champagne became "champers"....."Got into the champers a bit did we Nigel?"

The "z's" and the shortening of say Beckham to Becks....soon followed...."Old Baz (Barton) got sent down for nicking a coppers hat".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_%22-er%22
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2015, 04:04:51 PM »

I am pretty sure it comes from Oxford....the school. They were little "inside" sort of social cues. I think I read where the first one was "ruggers" for rugby. As in, "I say Rog, are you going to the dance after ruggers?"

Champagne became "champers"....."Got into the champers a bit did we Nigel?"

The "z's" and the shortening of say Beckham to Becks....soon followed...."Old Baz (Barton) got sent down for nicking a coppers hat".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_%22-er%22

Thanks for finding that. All of those made me cringe a bit. Hahaha.


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2015, 04:19:16 PM »
Lalala75, read The Language Instinct by Stephen Pinker, and do try to read it with an open mind. He has some really interesting insights on language and cognition that might help you see why judging people's intelligence based on their grammar is a bad idea.
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

--Francis Cabrel


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2015, 04:19:35 PM »
It's best thought of in a Bertie Wooster sort of way:

BW: I say Jeeves, Ol' Rozzies back from Pimpford. 
Jeeves: Shall I make up the spare room, Sir. He is always receptive to offered accommodation.
BW: What?! Yes, well he is prone to light pockets, eh? Top fellow, though, but lock up the champers.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2015, 04:27:03 PM »
My grammar BLOWS but I like to think I'm intelligent.   ;D

And my husband couldn't spell if his life depended on it and he's incredibly intelligent and well respected in his job.


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2015, 05:01:24 PM »
@historyenne

"He has some really interesting insights on language and cognition that might help you see why judging people's intelligence based on their grammar is a bad idea."

Is this why you were showing off your expert knowledge of grammar earlier? Almost trying to write a freaking academic essay to me and quoting books and authors? Because you are so modest and unpretentious and supposedly care free about improper grammar?

And your argument isnt even consistent. First you go into how much you know about English and how you are a grammar snob but now playing the card that you aren't judging someone by their grammar. Plus, you were taking apart the OP's writing so you are a total hypocrite.

And plus, this is a rant page. I still dont see why you are on here. People  go on here to vent and many times, to even find solace. But your job always seems to be to want to kick whoever complains about the British down. Do you go on depression forums and troll them  too? Weird way to get your kicks

You


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2015, 05:02:39 PM »
Let's not forget the root cause of the problem: staffing and resources have been cut absolutely to the bone in the UK government.  They simply don't have the time and people to make sure that every communication is perfect.     

They don't even have the staff in the tax office to answer the phone, trying to collect taxes from Starbucks and Facebook is just a distant dream.


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2015, 05:41:12 PM »
"Geezer," I say, has no American equal. "Mate" is very strange to me.....no one ever calls their banker "mate". No one calls their doctor "mate". When a guy calls me "mate" I wonder what that means....am I projecting something?

Geezer is a normal term in the US, I used it all the time to mean an old man. Husband said it's also a London term for something else, where he wasn't even able to explain it very well. haha.

Totally agree on brekkie, hols, preggers (also used in the US), pressie (present), and anything else shortened with an 'ie; added to it. It really sets my teeth on edge!
The usual. American girl meets British guy. They fall into like, then into love. Then there was the big decision. The American traveled across the pond to join the Brit. And life was never the same again.


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Re: grammar skills in the UK
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2015, 05:57:37 PM »

And I don't think you need to study linguistics to know what when people stop using actual words in a language that's made up of words, that language is declining.

Two things: Cuneiform and hieroglyphics. Two VERY early written languages, both pictorial.
The usual. American girl meets British guy. They fall into like, then into love. Then there was the big decision. The American traveled across the pond to join the Brit. And life was never the same again.


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