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Topic: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600  (Read 1741 times)

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SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« on: March 11, 2016, 05:03:46 PM »
Hi Guys,

I am applying for my wife's extension next week in person. I am in the process of gathering documents. I've a question with regards to financial requirement. Here is my case...

I am self-employed (work as an IT consultant) with limited company since March 2015. One of the documents to submit is Company Tax Return CT600.

Following rule says from -> newcomer link: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence [nonactive]

All of the following must be provided:
(i) Company Tax Return CT600 (a copy or print-out) for the last full financial year and evidence this has been filed with HMRC, such as electronic or written acknowledgment from HMRC.
...

The problem is my accountant will file tax return on 31s March and I can't wait until then because my wife's visa expires on 27th March. And since I am self-employed since last March 2015 this is my first and only financial year up until now.

My accountant has produced CT600 but this has not been filed yet with HMRC.

Will this CT600 (produced by my accountant) suffice? Please please help.

Please note I used to be permanent employee before March 2015.

Many thanks



« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 05:11:28 PM by xcaliber »


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Re: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2016, 12:02:32 AM »
How did you get on with the visa?

I was issued my FLR(M) today. But give an additional 10 yrs til ILR instead of 2.5. Last tax year I was sole trader April 15-Feb 2016 when I went limited. They said I did not have a full tax year as sole trader (even tho I make double the threshold).

I know I should be grateful for getting the visa despite not meeting their vague criteria. But I'm not happy to be on a 10 year path to ILR. The cost and hassle every 2.5 years makes me feel nauseous.


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Re: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2016, 11:49:38 AM »
Lizzylou

It's really unfair that you have to be on the 10 year route. Paying higher and higher fees and proving financial stability and other measures every time.

I'm worried about myself as I have a limited company now and will be applying for ILR next year.

In other words:
Dec-12 flr first period issued
Jun-15 flr second period issued - I was employed at the time
Oct-15 I started limited company (taxes can be filed now but I'll file myself being an accountant)
Nov-17 need to apply for ilr.

Do I need to look for employment now to be safe for ilr?


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SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2016, 11:55:41 AM »
It may depend which self-employment category you apply under.

If it's Category F (most recent financial year), then as long as you have the paperwork filed for a full financial year for the limited company, and you made at least the minimum requirement in that year, then you'll be fine.

If it's Category G, which covers the last 2 financial years, then you may not qualify - it depends on the dates of the tax year of the company... Whether it goes from April to April or a different period (I.e. If it's Oct to Oct, then you might just meet the requirement).

Otherwise, remember that if your partner is employed and meets the requirement with their income, then you don't have to use your self-employment income at all.


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Re: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2016, 04:57:08 PM »
Many thanks. Basically

My financial year is from Oct to September. So applying in Nov-17 means there would have been two financial years. If I file quickly in October I should be okay.

Otherwise I'll simply use category d as we have the savings, but they are locked in a fixed term savings account. Would that be okay though?


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Re: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2016, 05:25:02 PM »
As long as the savings are immediately accessible, I would definitely advise applying under Category D and using the savings rather than worrying about self-employment.

Self-employment categories (F and G) are very difficult to get right and require many more documents than cash savings - and therefore a refusal is more likely using self-employment rather than savings.

Cash savings only requires 6 months of bank statements, while self-employment is much more complicated and requires specific income calculations and about 11 different documents.

So, I would only advise using self-employment as a last resort if you absolutely cannot meet the requirements any other way.


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Re: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2016, 05:54:20 PM »
That's helpful

Many thanks


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Re: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2016, 05:56:54 PM »
Otherwise I'll simply use category d as we have the savings, but they are locked in a fixed term savings account. Would that be okay though?


As long as you can access the savings immediately, the account would qualify. You should check the terms and conditions and I would include a copy with your application so that there can be no doubt.

Quote
11A. In respect of cash savings:

    (a) The savings may be held in any form of bank/savings account (whether a current, deposit or investment account, provided by a financial institution regulated by the appropriate regulatory body for the country in which that institution is operating), provided that the account allows the savings to be accessed immediately (with or without a penalty for withdrawing funds without notice). This can include savings held in a pension savings account which can be immediately withdrawn.   

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

I also strongly recommend going with cash savings, if you can, instead of self employment. You'd be looking at the easiest category to prove versus the one most likely to fail.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 05:59:54 PM by larrabee »


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Re: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2016, 08:14:17 PM »
Do I need to look for employment now to be safe for ilr?

I would suggest see an immigration solicitor ASAP. 

I've only just read my visa letter again.  I was away on holiday and honestly needed a few days to process what in the world happened to me last week.  Looking at my letter, it quotes some immigration rule that grants me the right to stay only because I have a child here and they realise it is not reasonable to make the child move back to America?! 

Honestly I feel like I have committed some kind of horrible crime.  I have done nothing but secure work as soon as I could when I moved back here in 2014.  I have felt sick ever since this has happened.  Keep beating myself up for ever switching to limited. 

I thought a tax year was like it is in America - what you filed for the tax year - you know after April.  Well my tax year only included work from April - Feb.  And if you want to get specific - I didn't work the months of August, September and some of October as I took them off for maternity - would that not be "working a full tax year as a sole trader".  For those 8 weeks I worked as a full time mom.  And I know someone reading this will say..well it says "full financial year" but come on, really? I worked the full financial year - I'm the same person doing the same locum optometry work for the same exact company. 

Its a technicality and my husband and friends are convinced it is just a stringent rule to restrict some from keeping the immigration numbers exactly as they are.  Plus, they can extract more money from me.

When it comes to the self employed route, nothing is certain and what you read under the guideline notes may not give you the full story.  I consider myself an intelligent woman who has done my last visa and my husband's green card without a solicitor, I figured I could go without the expense again. 

Let me be a lesson to all those self employed persons out there applying...beware...cover all your bases...seek a solicitor about every financial move you make. 



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Re: SELF EMPLOYMENT FLR(M) HELP - CT600
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2016, 09:48:01 PM »
I would suggest see an immigration solicitor ASAP. 

Honestly, I don't think that's necessary. If they can use savings, their case will be extremely straightforward.

If they can't, then I would suggest a tax advisor over an immigration lawyer - what they need to do is work out their tax amounts, exact tax year dates, and how long it will take to get the paperwork filed at the end of the tax year, so they can time it to make sure they have it all sorted in time to apply.

Quote
I've only just read my visa letter again.  I was away on holiday and honestly needed a few days to process what in the world happened to me last week.  Looking at my letter, it quotes some immigration rule that grants me the right to stay only because I have a child here and they realise it is not reasonable to make the child move back to America?! 

Yes, that will be correct. If you don't meet the financial requirements, instead of being refused outright, the visa will instead be granted under Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights, which is basically that they strive to keep families together if at all possible. Since the 10-year route is available, it's very unlikely that a visa would be refused in this case though.

Quote
Honestly I feel like I have committed some kind of horrible crime.  I have done nothing but secure work as soon as I could when I moved back here in 2014.  I have felt sick ever since this has happened.  Keep beating myself up for ever switching to limited. 

The only thing you did 'wrong' was switch to limited company in February instead of after April 5th. That's it.

Remember, it's nothing personal - it's a tick box visa, and unfortunately, your income didn't quite tick the boxes, due to the timing of you switching to limited company.

Quote
I thought a tax year was like it is in America - what you filed for the tax year - you know after April.  Well my tax year only included work from April - Feb.  And if you want to get specific - I didn't work the months of August, September and some of October as I took them off for maternity - would that not be "working a full tax year as a sole trader". 

When setting up as self-employed it is your responsibility to research the tax year dates and find out how things work in the UK. It's not about when during the year you worked, it's about how the government calculates the tax years.

The official tax year is April 6th to April 5th and this is very clearly stated on the gov.uk webpages which tell you how to file your taxes:
https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/who-must-send-a-tax-return

It is also very clearly stated on the visa requirements too - the first paragraph of the Category F: Self-Employment guidance mentions the exact dates in April that are covered under the full financial year.

For sole traders, the tax year is April 6th to April 5th and for directors of limited companies, the tax year is the 12-month accounting year for the company:

Quote
9.3. Self-employment or Director of a specified limited company in the UK – general requirements
9.3.1. For those self-employed as a sole trader, as a partner or in a franchise, the relevant financial year(s) will be that covered by the self-assessment tax return and in the UK this runs from 6 April to 5 April the following year. Where the applicant is relying on their partner’s income from self-employment overseas, the relevant financial year(s) will reflect the requirements of the taxation system of that country

9.3.2. For those employed as a director of a specified limited company in the UK, the relevant financial year(s) will be that covered by the Company Tax Return CT600 and corresponds to the 12-month accounting year of the company.

Quote
For those 8 weeks I worked as a full time mom.  And I know someone reading this will say..well it says "full financial year" but come on, really? I worked the full financial year - I'm the same person doing the same locum optometry work for the same exact company. 

The full financial year is April 6th to April 5th, so you have to be a sole trader for that entire year, right up to April 5th. Because you switched in February, you were not a sole trader for the entire tax year, so you didn't qualify.

Quote
Its a technicality and my husband and friends are convinced it is just a stringent rule to restrict some from keeping the immigration numbers exactly as they are.  Plus, they can extract more money from me.

No, it's nothing to do with that. It's about how your annual income is calculated when you are self-employed. The requirements clearly state that you MUST show a full financial year of income, because that's the only way they can calculate how much you earn each tax year.

You must also show that the income is ongoing... but because you switched to limited company in February, you were basically saying that your income as a sole trader had been terminated, and therefore UKVI had no evidence that you would also earn the same/a similar amount in the 2016/2017 financial year.

From the guidance:

Quote
19. When calculating income from self-employment under paragraphs 12A and 13(e)… this paragraph applies:
(a) There must be evidence of ongoing self-employment, and (where income from salaried employment is also relied upon or where paragraph 9(c) applies) ongoing employment, at the date of application.

Quote
When it comes to the self employed route, nothing is certain and what you read under the guideline notes may not give you the full story.  I consider myself an intelligent woman who has done my last visa and my husband's green card without a solicitor, I figured I could go without the expense again. 

It does give you the full story, you just need to make sure you are aware of and understand it all - and if you're unclear, then you can always ask questions in the forum, or hire a tax advisor to help you make sure you meet the requirements.

The guidance clearly states:
- the dates they will use for calculating a full financial year if you are a sole trader (April 6th to April 5th)
- the dates they will use for calculating a full tax year if you are a director of a limited company (the 12 months of the accounting year shown on the CT600)
- a list of every single document you must include to show you meet the requirements for the full financial year.

As it was, it seems that there was actually no way for you to meet the financial requirement using self-employment, because of your switch to limited company in February... because assuming your company accounting year is February to February, you wouldn't have been able to show a full tax year of income as the director of a limited company until February 2017.


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