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Topic: UKM and US Biometric woes  (Read 3073 times)

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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2016, 08:53:33 PM »
Wow!  Awesome news all around.  Congrats Caroline!

Cloverbea, enjoy your time in Ireland.  You are DEFINITELY making the right choice to do Surrinder Singh!


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2016, 11:47:52 AM »
So here's a little more detail of how we got here....

I do want to stress though that the wording in an email we recieved from HO was that his application didn't even begin to process until biometrics were complete. SO, it seems that the 6 month "clock" doesn't even start until biometrics are done. Another thing to point out in our case is that we have a permanent address here in the UK with my husband's parents, making correspondence and proof of address much easier. If you don't have someone to live with then the most feasible thing would be to let a holiday cottage and do the process that way. We are very lucky that they processed his application in the time they did, and I would dare say it was helped along by our gentle nudging and giving them our timeline for being in the country.

Something else to mention, hubby was talking with passport advice about a month or so ago and he went through his history with the agent and was told that he was in fact eligible from the start for a British passport, per the 1948 Immigration Act that states that if his mother was born after 1948 that he immediately was eligible for a British passport because he inherited citizenship from her at birth. Hubby asked about the UKM process (without stating that he was actually in that process) and he stated that there was no need for him to do that because his mum was born after 1948 and that UKM was only for mothers who were born before 1948 or who had other extraneous circumstances. While the passport wasn't meant to be an indication of full british citizenship, that it sufficed for all things such as NI, NHS and residency. He told him that he could simply apply for a passport and if he wished to get a letter showing his citizenship, that he only had to request that letter from the HO stating that he was a british citizen by descent. As of right now we have applied for the passport and they don't appear to have any contact with nationality so if my passport arrives before my ceremony, then we know that route was the easiest to take, if it comes after his ceremony then UKM was the way to go. I was placed on the phone with a supervisor in the same call to passport advice who confirmed and quoted the 1948 Act. He was reading line for line and gave me places to go and read the info for myself. It did appear that UKM was a bureaucratic waste of time and just more red tape to get through that wasn't necessary.

NOW...the passport office processed my application within a day but sent me another form due to me signing too close to the line, so I had to get new photos taken and my countersignatory to fill out his part again, but instead of my form being sent back to Liverpool, it was to be sent to Peterborough which is the only place in the country that prints passports. My understanding is that if I weren't entitled or I sent the application in error it would have already been refused by Liverpool and that any new forms requested of me would have been sent to Liverpool. The fact that my forms were sent on to Peterborough reflects that all should be well and I'll either have an interview or I'll simply have my passport show up. 

Interestingly enough, what I did to be able to travel to the UK in the first place was to apply for another US passport as Home Office had my passport for the UKM process. Having a second passport (the first obviously canceled when I got the second), did not hinder my process at all.

If you plan on doing this route, I will stress to you to have bank statements showing you can support yourself, have proof of your job back in the states, have a return ticket printed out and do not do not do not bring American Cash as it is difficult to change unless you are willing to take a huge loss in conversion. Only stress that you are here for a holiday and are taking an extended leave of absence from your job (they asked us how that was possible for hubby to do and he is a police officer who worked private contracts so he was able to take off due to the flexibility of his job)
Don't mention any intention to move to the UK or to get your citizenship, they will automatically assume you are going to overstay.
If you are coming with children, you must be ready to answer questions about how they are going to get their schooling. We homeschooled so that was a non-issue for us, but the Immigration Officer stressed that we could NOT put the children into school or use NHS.
 I would strongly recommend travel insurance for the duration of your stay so that you won't have an NHS bill hanging over your head while your paperwork is processing as that is grounds for refusal.

Any other questions?
I am a North Carolina girl born and raised, yes I love sweet iced tea, Texas Pete and biscuits and gravy....but England is where my soul feels at peace and I can't wait to get there.


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2016, 07:12:20 PM »
Thanks Cloverbea, my Mom was born in 1946 so I still have to go through UKM and I got my enrollment letter for the US so I can complete the process from here. I don't think I would have tried going to the UK to do it unless there was *absolutely* no other way it sounds way too risky!


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2016, 08:04:05 PM »
I was placed on the phone with a supervisor in the same call to passport advice who confirmed and quoted the 1948 Act. He was reading line for line and gave me places to go and read the info for myself. It did appear that UKM was a bureaucratic waste of time and just more red tape to get through that wasn't necessary.

Did you find it (or do you remember what he said)? I'm curious to know which part he read to you, because I don't see anywhere in the 1948 act where this is stated.

I've just read through most of it and as far as I can see, there is no mention of being able to inherit citizenship through a British mother, only through a British father. In the Citizenship By Descent section, only British fathers are mentioned, not mothers.

In fact, it seems the word 'mother' is only mentioned once in the entire 1948 act and that's in regards to someone naturalising as a UK citizen.

As far as I can tell, it only talks about the citizenship status of the person who was born before 1948, and that if a child is born after 1948 to a FATHER born before 1948, that child is automatically British. I can't see anything about children born to a British mother.

One of the changes brought in by the 1981 act was that British citizenship could now be passed down by the British mother, which was previously not allowed under the 1948 act.

So, because of the 1981 act, anyone born after Jan 1st 1983 to a British mother can now qualify for UK citizenship automatically, but anyone born before Jan 1st 1983 to a British mother has to register as British using form UKM first, before they can apply for a UK passport.

From Wikipedia:
Quote
British Nationality Act 1981

Other changes

The Act made a variety of other changes to the law:
-    Mothers as well as fathers were allowed to pass on British citizenship to their children.


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2016, 04:24:09 AM »
I emailed and asked about doing my biometrics in Canada a few days ago and I just got an email back with my biometrics enrollment letter for the United States! Huzzah! I'm very relieved and hopefully this is good news for anyone else stuck in this situation!

Caroline - I think your success is proof that the UKM US application process is improving. You seem to be the only one with an acknowledgment thus far and now you have your invitation!

Anyhow, I promised an update on doing biometrics in the UK. On Cloverbea's and BlueBadger's advice, I emailed to request to complete the biometrics enrollment process in the UK. I noted the dates of my visit and the fact that I had heard that doing biometrics in the US may be holding up my UKM application so doing them while on holiday in the UK may help the process. I also gave them an UK address (family) to mail the invitation to. At first, I received an email stating that when I submitted my application, I should boldly state the dates of my UK visit to do my biometrics. In response, I politely told them that I had already applied in Dec2015 and attached a pdf of my application. I emailed from the US on the 10th of May to which they responded back on the 16th and I received my invitation via Royal Mail on the 21st the day I landed! They give you 15 business days to complete the biometrics enrollment process (5 minutes at the post office) so if anyone is going to do them on holiday they should email with anticipation along with providing an address where they are able to receive mail. It has been two weeks now and I have not received anything else. I will wait one month before I inquire if I have not heard back by then.

On a side note, I did not send my US passport with my application. Instead I sent a complete notarized copy of it along with my mother's UK passport at the time of my birth and a complete notarized copy of her current UK passport.  I remember the guidelines stating that if you need your passport, a copy would suffice.

That's all for now. Will update again when I hear back from them.

Dual Citizen: US / UK
Dual Resident: US (New England) / UK (Scotland)

UKM application: 2015/17/12 (British Citizenship by Descent)
no email acknowledgement
no response via phone
emailed request to do biometrics in the UK instead: 2016/15/05
biometrics enrollment invitation: 2016/21/05
Biometrics: Truro 2016/26/05
Approved: 2016/15/06
Oath: 2016/28/07


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2016, 08:00:46 AM »
Congrats arhp!

With the most difficult step now completed, I hope you'll hear back soon.
July 2012 - Fiancée Visa | Nov 2012 - Married
Dec 2012 - FLR | Nov 2014 - ILR | Dec 2015 - UK Citizen


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2016, 10:59:07 AM »
Ksand, from what Jeff told me, the supervisor advised that the 1948 act did pertain to just father's but that the 1983 act was made to include mother's in the 1948 act. If that makes sense? Either way, we've just received Jeff's documents back, and he has his interview next Thursday. A call to passport advice said his interview was the last step and that his stuff looked good? Coincidentally, he may be doing his citizenship ceremony the same day! I have had my doubts about the passport thing, but it seems to be going smoothly, except for having to do his signature and photos again 😂😂

Jeff is at the hospital with his father but when he gets home if he can explain it better, I'll post again.
I am a North Carolina girl born and raised, yes I love sweet iced tea, Texas Pete and biscuits and gravy....but England is where my soul feels at peace and I can't wait to get there.


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UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2016, 11:11:48 AM »
Ksand, from what Jeff told me, the supervisor advised that the 1948 act did pertain to just father's but that the 1983 act was made to include mother's in the 1948 act. If that makes sense?

Yes, that makes perfect sense - that's exactly what the 1983 act did... It's what I said in my previous post (which I just realised has a possibly confusing typo - will try to correct it).

However, it DOES NOT give your husband automatic UK citizenship. The 1983 act states that only children of UK fathers born before 1983 are automatic UK citizens.

Children born to UK mothers before 1983 don't have automatic UK citizenship, but are now allowed to REGISTER as UK citizens. Which is why your husband had to go through the UKM application in the first place... If it was the case that he was automatically British we would have told you that months ago and saved you all the UKM hassle.

Once he has registered and attended a citizenship ceremony, then he will be eligible to apply for a UK passport.

So if you have applied for his passport before he has attended his ceremony, then it's unlikely the passport application will be approved.

As far as I can tell you were given incorrect advice by the passport people... Not just about his citizenship but also about 'full citizens' and passports. There's no such thing as a non-full UK citizen in this context. You either are a full UK citizen and are eligible for a UK passport, or you are not a full UK citizen and cannot apply for a passport. If your husband has not attended his ceremony yet, he is not a full UK citizen and is not eligible for a UK passport.

(People from UK overseas territories, UK overseas nationals, British subjects etc. are different though and have their own regulations and passport types)


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« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 11:25:33 AM by ksand24 »


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2016, 12:31:17 PM »

We are actually not going back to the states, as soon as this is over we're heading to Ireland to exercise Hubby's treaty rights :) Is that it? I can't remember....

You might want to rethink about about using Ireland. There are numerous posts about how the Irish have been helping the UK by dragging out applications from Brits over the last few months. By doing this the Irish are helping the UK with their "centre of life" requirement for those hoping to use Singh, in anticipation of the UK voting to stay in the UK.

Have you read what the UK has been offered if they stay in the UK? To me and many others, it reads like the end of Singh to avoid UK immigration rules. Cameron also seems to think the UK has been offered that. Have a read of what the UK has been offere dto stay and see what you think.

With the President of the European council saying the UK will get all they want as soon as they vote to stay, it seems that it has already been agreed. The calender of European Council (leaders of all the countires) is showing meetings the Sunday before the UK vote and for two days after the UK vote. At a push, most of the things offered to the UK could be through the European parliament by the end of July.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 12:46:49 PM by Sirius »


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2016, 12:46:19 PM »
Yes, I know what's been offered, yes, I know what's going on. We are going to Ireland. While things aren't easiest, as Ireland is not issuing c-visas and such, that isn't an issue for us. Ireland is still the best option and who knows we may love it there and stay. Nothing will occur that would keep from this route until mid 2018.
I am a North Carolina girl born and raised, yes I love sweet iced tea, Texas Pete and biscuits and gravy....but England is where my soul feels at peace and I can't wait to get there.


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2016, 12:47:49 PM »
Nothing will occur that would keep from this route until mid 2018.

I don't understand what you mean? The UK has been offered things as soon as they agree to stay in. BreMain will bring new things in quickly.

It's BrExit, where it will take longer.

Although, as usual, EU law is badly written and is often easily changed because of that i.e. Metock, Singh, Chen. It turns out EU law was also badly written for when a country leaves the EU. When a country joins the EU, they then incorporate that EU Directive into their own law. The problem is, as has now been pointed out to the EU, there is nothing to stop a country revoking that Directive from their own law overnight, which then ends EU law and their 'up to 2 year' rule when a country leaves the EU. I assume that is the "2018" you are talking about?

I doubt they would do it (even though some MPs and Lords are calling to revoke the EU Directive overnight if the UK votes to leave) but it makes a good bargaining point, on both sides.  What continues in the event of a country leaving the EU, will now depend on what the EU offers in return to that country.

Or they may, as in the case of when countries have voted to refuse EU treaties, make a better offer to those countries. i.e. Ireland and Denmark. As the EU have already pointed out, if the UK leaves the EU then the EU will be forced to take to the TTIP trade agreement that the US wants. You may have seen the protests in Germany over the TTIP and working conditions?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36120560
 Or the protests in the UK parliament to try to exclude the NHS from the EU/US TTIP, to protect the NHS (if the UK remains in the EU).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36332415




« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 02:06:31 PM by Sirius »


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2016, 04:29:01 PM »
Anyhow, I promised an update on doing biometrics in the UK. ... I emailed to request to complete the biometrics enrollment process in the UK...on the 10th of May...I received my invitation via Royal Mail on the 21st... It has been two weeks now and I have not received anything else. I will wait one month before I inquire if I have not heard back by then.

That's all for now. Will update again when I hear back from them.

Great news for those wishing to speed up the UKM from US application process. Today, I received my application approval letter along with the return of all of my identification documents! Now I just have to wait for the consulate to send me the invitation to attend the citizenship ceremony - with bated breath!

Note that I would not know that my documents were being returned if it were not for the FedEx shipping notifications I had set up for the return package. No email notice was sent, just a letter with the package. Though, I am very glad that I did not have to email HO for an update. Completed my biometrics on the 26th of May and the letter was dated 15th June.

Very true that the clock starts ticking from the moment biometrics are submitted.

Application submitted from US: 22Dec2015
Biometrics request for UK: 10May2016
Biometrics invitation sent to UK: 20May2016
Biometrics enrolled in UK: 26May2016 UK
Approval sent to US: 15June2016
Dual Citizen: US / UK
Dual Resident: US (New England) / UK (Scotland)

UKM application: 2015/17/12 (British Citizenship by Descent)
no email acknowledgement
no response via phone
emailed request to do biometrics in the UK instead: 2016/15/05
biometrics enrollment invitation: 2016/21/05
Biometrics: Truro 2016/26/05
Approved: 2016/15/06
Oath: 2016/28/07


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Re: UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2016, 11:13:02 AM »
Quick update:

Hubby went for his passport interview on the 16th of June....
in Reading, in the morning......then....

in Oxford, in the afternoon, he stood for his Citizenship :)

I know there have been questions on if he would actually get his passport, but this morning, we recieved a text that his passport has been dispatched :) Also checked online tracking and it too shows dispatched as the status.

We leave for Ireland on the 28th :)
I am a North Carolina girl born and raised, yes I love sweet iced tea, Texas Pete and biscuits and gravy....but England is where my soul feels at peace and I can't wait to get there.


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UKM and US Biometric woes
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2016, 05:27:32 AM »
Great news for those wishing to speed up the UKM from US application process. Today, I received my application approval letter along with the return of all of my identification documents! Now I just have to wait for the consulate to send me the invitation to attend the citizenship ceremony - with bated breath!

Note that I would not know that my documents were being returned if it were not for the FedEx shipping notifications I had set up for the return package. No email notice was sent, just a letter with the package. Though, I am very glad that I did not have to email HO for an update. Completed my biometrics on the 26th of May and the letter was dated 15th June.

Very true that the clock starts ticking from the moment biometrics are submitted.

Application submitted from US: 22Dec2015
Biometrics request for UK: 10May2016
Biometrics invitation sent to UK: 20May2016
Biometrics enrolled in UK: 26May2016 UK
Approval sent to US: 15June2016
Yay! I forgot to update but I got went for my biometrics a few weeks ago ( I need to construct a timeline!) and lucky for me I got my passport and my mom's passport back two days before my biometrics appointment which was very good as I needed my passport to do my biometrics! I now await my confirmation and date fur my ceremony hopefully it will be soooooon!
ETA: they have not sent mine and my Mom's birth certificates back yet I assume I'll get them back with my letter

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« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 05:31:36 AM by Caroline »


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