Post-referendum rant: Now Britons, not Americans seen as "dumb voters."

@Verystormy Sorry but these senarios are just plain wrong. This is not how the EU and UK relationship worked. I think you are the one of many who believed in the lies the Leave campaign were peddling. With all the lies that are being uncovered now, you should know better.

Americans have always hated anyone else making suggestions on how to live/do business/politics etc etc. They can't stand it. They love to tell other places how to live/behave however.  Heck.....each State can't stand someone else telling them what to do.

@lorenausuk I'm Mexican american and used to live in the south. Trust me when I say it doesn't matter to some people whether you are legal or not. Besides, how are illegal Mexicans any worse than European settlers that came to  America illegally and helped themselves to someone else's land, like I say, we're all immigrants. I myself have North American DNA, most of which people who complain about "illegal" Mexicans can't claim.

I'll tell you how I feel about Mexicans, legal or illegal.....I am taking Spanish classes.

But while I welcome my new friends.....I do wish there was no such thing as the subjunctive verb tense.....it's killing me. That and "se". Sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't.

Besides, how are illegal Mexicans any worse than European settlers that came to  America illegally and helped themselves to someone else's land, like I say, we're all immigrants.

This difference is that it was an accepted way of behaving at that time. Was it right?......not by todays standards. Being an immigrant doesn't last forever.....just for the people who are doing the move. Yeah.....there are plenty of prejudiced people out there who will bend any topic to meet their way of thinking......race/immigration/rich/poor/Dem/Rep/....pick a topic, there will be people who don't like them.....for lousy reasons.

@Verystormy Sorry but these senarios are just plain wrong. This is not how the EU and UK relationship worked. I think you are the one of many who believed in the lies the Leave campaign were peddling. With all the lies that are being uncovered now, you should know better.

Would you explain to me why you say Verystormy's scenarios are wrong?  Because I am not sure you understand how the European Union works.  If I am wrong please say so and I will apologise but as I have had to study the EU system and laws I do not see anything that was suggested as being false. 

@PahaKissa well for one thing, the loss of manufacturing jobs can't all be blamed on the EU as much as Margaret Thatcher. And saying EU would be like Congress is incorrect. Decisions about this country are made in Westminster, just as the in the US they are made by Congress. Also, the money we get back Westminster decides how to spend it. And yes, the EU passes some laws but i have yet to meet someone who can actually tell me what is so wrong with these laws. And actually, thank god for the EU because they wanted to enforce laws like maternity leave, 35 hour work week etc when the British government didn't. Now I bet people can't live without these rights.

All over the media, people are now realizing Westminster is to blame for these issues and the EU is the scapegoat. If it's so off base, why is every publication etc now saying these beliefs that the EU caused so much destruction in the UK are false? Why is no one except Donald Trump congratulating Britain for leaving? Why are there claims of leave voters being "idiots." If the EU was as bad and tyrannical as Leave voters believe why does virtually no one else agree? ****correction, no one else except extreme right-wing governments. I don't even think Putin has congratulated them.

people are now realizing Westminster is to blame for these issues and the EU is the scapegoat.

This is the crux. Right on the nose Lala.

@sonofasailor Indeed. And US politicans are bad but I'm truly shocked at what's happening here and the behavior of both parties. And when I first got to London, I always got the feeling that things were not run very well, actually it makes me very uncomfortable. I can only imagine what it's like in the North, etc where people are really ignored. Also, it's too bad no one is held responsible for the sometimes outright lies of this campaign.

@Verystormy Sorry but these senarios are just plain wrong. This is not how the EU and UK relationship worked. I think you are the one of many who believed in the lies the Leave campaign were peddling. With all the lies that are being uncovered now, you should know better.

Actually, this is exactly how the EU works. I have been campaigning to leave the EU for many years. I am also a trained lawyer with a specialism in EU law and constitutional law.

@Verystormy and what would be wrong if people from Cuba, Haiti did come over to the US? This is the problem i have with all this, that some people "should" and "shouldn't" be over here. We're all immigrants at the end of the day. For the record, this makes me mad with both countries. Just like Mexicans shouldnt be in the US. Makes me furious

So, you think that all immigration is good for the country - regardless of the number of people or what skills the people have? On which case, you would obviously support the following:

We take a group of super tankers and re fit them as giant farriers. We send them over to Africa and tell people to jump on board and they will be allowed to live in the UK.

We can import people at maybe 1 million a month.

If you are correct, then by Christmas, the UK is the richest country on the planet

@PahaKissa well for one thing, the loss of manufacturing jobs can't all be blamed on the EU as much as Margaret Thatcher. And saying EU would be like Congress is incorrect. Decisions about this country are made in Westminster, just as the in the US they are made by Congress. Also, the money we get back Westminster decides how to spend it. And yes, the EU passes some laws but i have yet to meet someone who can actually tell me what is so wrong with these laws. And actually, thank god for the EU because they wanted to enforce laws like maternity leave, 35 hour work week etc when the British government didn't. Now I bet people can't live without these rights.

All over the media, people are now realizing Westminster is to blame for these issues and the EU is the scapegoat. If it's so off base, why is every publication etc now saying these beliefs that the EU caused so much destruction in the UK are false? Why is no one except Donald Trump congratulating Britain for leaving? Why are there claims of leave voters being "idiots." If the EU was as bad and tyrannical as Leave voters believe why does virtually no one else agree? ****correction, no one else except extreme right-wing governments. I don't even think Putin has congratulated them.

A few things:
1. Workplace laws in the UK were either implemented prior to the EU such as racial discrimination or the UK has exceeded EU standards in every case.
2. We don't have a 35 hour week. There exists the working time directive, which limits work to 48 hours per week, but which over 90% of UK staff elect out of. So a pointless exercise.
3. There are hundreds of poor EU laws and regulations. Here is an example from my workplace.
I manage a quarry which produces material for concrete. As part of our process, we analyse the material to ensure that the subsequent concrete is of good quality and sound. In 2008, the EU issued regulations on this which are effectively law - I and the company can be fined or even lose our license for failing to follow them. However, the new rules, which superseded British Standards were written as a copy and paste from Spanish regs - which have never been followed since the 70's. The reason, the Spanish stopped following their own regulations is that if you make concrete to that specification, your concrete will disintegrate - not a good thing when most of our product is used in multi storey construction. So, at our expense, I have to follow the EU and record the results. But, then, in order to ensure the concrete doesn't collapse, we have to test it again to the old standards. So, all done twice. This is one example that the treasuries own reports show costs British business £10 billion per year.

As for the effect of the EU on British manufacturing, have a look at Ford Transit - closed down in the UK with funding from the EU to encourage it to move to mainland Europe. Or, Cadbury - same, Or, Gillette - same. I can reel off loads of cases of this. So, no, the EU might not have killed British manufacturing, but it is having a good try.

As for not agreeing the EU is a bad idea, have a look at the French public - 68% are anti EU. Or the Austrian, or thre Greek. Or the nation of Iceland.

We take a group of super tankers and re fit them as giant farriers. We send them over to Africa and tell people to jump on board and they will be allowed to live in the UK.

You are a lawyer, trained in debate....do I need to point out the fallacy here? I mean really. 

Too, Stormy.....why did you choose Africa for your example? Did you feel that as we imagined your far-fetched scenario the black faces would make it more frightening to us?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just randomly pulled a developing part of the world out of your hat. Tighten up your rhetoric.

@sonofasailor agreed, it's a slightly disturbing example

@verystormy yes I do think immigration is a good thing. but I think, again, westminster is so inept and can't plan for its own people let alone new comers,  that's the problem. As for the rest of your arguments, I'll believe the experts

All over the media, people are now realizing Westminster is to blame for these issues and the EU is the scapegoat. If it's so off base, why is every publication etc now saying these beliefs that the EU caused so much destruction in the UK are false? Why is no one except Donald Trump congratulating Britain for leaving? Why are there claims of leave voters being "idiots." If the EU was as bad and tyrannical as Leave voters believe why does virtually no one else agree? ****correction, no one else except extreme right-wing governments. I don't even think Putin has congratulated them.

Social media should probably not be held to the same standard of argument as, say a court of law or other similar forum, but I believe the above (italics added by me) was written in response to the following request for explanation....

Would you explain to me why you say Verystormy's scenarios are wrong?  Because I am not sure you understand how the European Union works.  If I am wrong please say so and I will apologise but as I have had to study the EU system and laws I do not see anything that was suggested as being false. 

I am not an expert in any of the relevant areas being discussed, and I'm not certain how I would have voted had I qualified, but I do hold a high regard for well structured argument and turn of phrase.  Sadly, I haven't seen many of those on either side of this debate.  What I have seen are blatant lies, by leaders of both campaigns, and sweeping generalizations, such as the above. 

Is everyone who voted to leave the EU either stupid, racist, and/or too old to care about what happens in the future?

Is all concern about immigration based on racial bias? 

I doubt it.

If labels such as, stupid, idiot, bigot, etc. are thrown out whenever someone has a concern, it seems to me that most people willing to engage in the debate will be those at the extremes, leaving the rest of us on the outside watching in mute frustration.