Post-referendum rant: Now Britons, not Americans seen as "dumb voters."

@becca there were experts all through the debates etc and you think the guardian, bbc, etc is social media? If people like what they see as a result of this referendum so far: racial abuse, economic instability, house prices falling and division between people, I have nothing left to say.

good luck Britain!

But Becca, the problem is that it seems like much isolationism/xenophobia, this dislike of "the other", aligns very well with bigotry.

"I want my old way back!" You want your old way back from what?

"These people flooding in...it changes things." So? They haven't stopped you from doing your thing...

"But they are different."

It's not long before you begin to think that bigotry is at least part of it. And there is no place in the modern world for bigotry.

Arguments about strains on the system are a bit different. They can be analysed. And they have been. The biggest study into the effects of EU immigration on wages was conducted by the Lords a while back. It was thorough. They found that in regards to the lowest paid positions there was a very slight downward pressure on wages, but that it was extremely weak.

In regards to natural resources, water and food and such, there is absolutely no indication that Britain is in any imaginable danger of starvation.

Pressure on housing? The problems are many. God knows we have problems. Does anyone really think immigration is at the root? Really?

So what is it then? Just that we don't like them? That they are changing things? Changing what? I can still worship Jesus all I want. I can put a Christmas tree up in my house. The foods in the supermarket are all still the same, with the exception of a small aisle for foreign things. If I see some folk in the centre with turbans on...why would that affect me? 
 
 

Pressure on housing? The problems are many. God knows we have problems. Does anyone really think immigration is at the root? Really?
Exactly. There is a housing issue......and when things get tight....people look for someone to blame. Is it fair?....hmmm, not sure. [/color]

So what is it then? Just that we don't like them? That they are changing things? Changing what? I can still worship Jesus all I want. I can put a Christmas tree up in my house. The foods in the supermarket are all still the same, with the exception of a small aisle for foreign things. If I see some folk in the centre with turbans on...why would that affect me?

Yes.....to almost all of the above. It isn't necessarily right....but it's there. Younger people accept change better....older people don't.....many reasons why. Is either side right?....no....yes....but, to ignore or refuse to understand each sides view is foolish....and lazy. [/color

Yes.....to almost all of the above. It isn't necessarily right....but it's there. Younger people accept change better....older people don't.....many reasons why. Is either side right?....no....yes....but, to ignore or refuse to understand each sides view is foolish....and lazy.

Well yes. I mean I grew up in Panama City Beach, Florida....the Redneck Riviera....and spring break there was a sort of tacky Roman orgy. I remember well that the greatest thing in the world for us was to be right down by the pier, in the thick of things....the crush of people, loud music and cheap beer.

You couldn't make me go there now with a shotgun. For me, a cup of tea and a book on the Cambridge spy ring.

But I have sort of a tattoo principle. They are not for me....I don't feel the desire at all....but I am not at all upset by people who have them. Why should it bother me? They are not a sign that society is going to hell in a handcart. Some people just like them.

And too, I can't understand people who think fondly back on a time with outdoor plumbing. There was nothing good nor noble about waking up in the middle of a frosty night with the call of nature driving you to a nasty shed in the back garden or a funky pot under the bed.....which I know damnwell I would be the one emptying and cleaning.

@becca there were experts all through the debates etc and you think the guardian, bbc, etc is social media? If people like what they see as a result of this referendum so far: racial abuse, economic instability, house prices falling and division between people, I have nothing left to say.

good luck Britain!

Actually I was referring to forums/threads like this one as social media, which may or may not be accurate.  I can't see where in my comment I referenced, 'the guardian, bbc, etc', as social media, but if I implied that they were, I apologize.

But Becca, the problem is that it seems like much isolationism/xenophobia, this dislike of "the other", aligns very well with bigotry.

Yes, unfortunately that is very true and extremely disturbing - but alignment isn't the same thing as total overlap.  I'm picturing those Venn diagrams I used when teaching 5th graders....   

I only argue that much of the rhetoric being used in this and similar threads is polarizing with loaded labels (eg. stupid, etc.) and sweeping generalizations that aren't helping.

Yes, unfortunately that is very true and extremely disturbing

It is, because it isn't all rank bigotry....your Venn diagram description is now planted in my mind.

But to me some of this frustration comes from the situation where people have been for a while calling for a discussion on immigration (I am open to that), but it never happened. The "discussion" became quickly, "It's bad, we need less of it."

 

But to me some of this frustration comes from the situation where people have been for a while calling for a discussion on immigration (I am open to that), but it never happened. The "discussion" became quickly, "It's bad, we need less of it."

I sure wish I knew what the answers are....but I sure don't. When the large numbers of people were heading North, I kept saying to myself "Boy, this is getting out of hand and lots of people were dying.....the EU really needs to do something". I kept waiting. I was really disappointed that in an emergency like that, when the EU could have really proved itself, that days/weeks/months rolled along without much happening. Maybe there was more going on that I just didn't read. I don't know enough about what happens with the big shots in the EU and how they go about business. All I could think about was Congress and how the in-fighting just keeps things from getting done.

"The Government has ignored calls to back restored search and rescue missions in the Mediterranean after 950 people drowned on a boat crossing to Europe."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-government-still-opposes-rescue-missions-in-the-mediterranean-despite-950-migrants-drowning-in-10188689.html

"The Government has ignored calls to back restored search and rescue missions in the Mediterranean after 950 people drowned on a boat crossing to Europe."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-government-still-opposes-rescue-missions-in-the-mediterranean-despite-950-migrants-drowning-in-10188689.html

Other than a few comments by UK politicians....the article states that the EU stopped these rescue missions. I kind of got the impression at the beginning they were talking about the UK govt.....then it slid into an EU topic.

Too, Stormy.....why did you choose Africa for your example? Did you feel that as we imagined your far-fetched scenario the black faces would make it more frightening to us?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just randomly pulled a developing part of the world out of your hat. Tighten up your rhetoric.

I chose Africa as that is where I have spent half of my adult life. No other reasons. Change to anywhere else you wish