Author Topic: Stuff  (Read 1576 times)

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Offline jimbocz

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2016, 01:48:30 PM »
That's a really interesting article, thanks for the link.  What's missing from it, of course, is how you can actually change someone's mind who is arguing something that is demonstrably wrong .  I was really looking at the way Hillary was going to do it in the debate.  She did some of the things you would expect from the article like not trying to argue directly, being gentle and non confrontational.  I thought the results were limited and gave her a wierd, flippant approach. 

The thing that does seem to have worked is a good old fashioned dirty trick, bringing up miss Universe and letting Trump put his foot in it.  Then lining her up for interviews...Brilliant!

Offline F4mandolin

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2016, 02:32:51 PM »
Actually, that article fits in with something I did the other night. My aunt keeps getting on Facebook through people she knows and argues with some Trump supporters......I have no idea why she does. But I just felt like winding some of them up and pointed out some of the errors that they keep repeating. This one person kept repeating things like they were fact. He asked me to get off my butt and do some research and that would prove that Clinton lied a lot more than Trump. I told him I had actually done that very thing.......I told him I typed into Google/Yahoo etc "Clinton lies".....which got lots of examples of her doing so. Typed in "Trump lies" which got a lot more examples. When I pointed this out to him......he just stated that we will never agree and that was it. There are quite a few people who will not acknowledge the fact that Trump lies. It's pretty simple to me.....they both lie like hell....Trump just lies more. Why couldn't some other power hungry semi-sane politicians have run for office?.......
Fred

Offline phatbeetle

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2016, 04:15:55 PM »
Your facebook posters must be the same ones in my circles. Because gosh, they really, really, really refuse to look at data!
I had one guy actually say that he doesn't think that snopes or truthorfiction are true sources of data. That they perpetuate the lies. Hmm, I think these sites do a pretty good job of being quite objective, but hey fine, keep reading, look through other data sources. but he's like a person in the article who can't be reasoned with! No way, he's exactly like a person in the article who can't be reasoned with!

I think the internet-social media makes politics crazier and crazier now.  Makes me anxious! 

 
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Offline F4mandolin

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2016, 05:31:56 PM »
Your facebook posters must be the same ones in my circles. Because gosh, they really, really, really refuse to look at data!
I had one guy actually say that he doesn't think that snopes or truthorfiction are true sources of data. That they perpetuate the lies. Hmm, I think these sites do a pretty good job of being quite objective, but hey fine, keep reading, look through other data sources. but he's like a person in the article who can't be reasoned with! No way, he's exactly like a person in the article who can't be reasoned with!

I think the internet-social media makes politics crazier and crazier now.  Makes me anxious!
The same guy, when I had made a point on the negative of what he said.... I stated "please don't say you got it from Fox"....He asked why if Fox was so bad why did it have the most viewers. Good point....I pointed out that they were really old.....and then if having the most viewers was important then he should be fine with Obama since he had the most votes the last couple of elections...............................he didn't like that.
Although......these posters are not on my usual Facebook pages. I have killed off all but 5-6 people just because I didn't like reading how people I didn't know were leading their lives. But.....I have to keep at least a couple of relatives on Facebook....and what they read......I have to read......damn.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 05:34:22 PM by F4mandolin »
Fred

Offline sonofasailor

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2016, 11:47:25 AM »
Gingrich confusing fact and feeling

Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across - Sun Tzu

Offline sonofasailor

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2016, 12:30:01 PM »
I find this idea of "framing" very interesting...I mean with Gingrich above, we can't be sure if he actually believes what he is saying or if he, as a politician, is in fact trying to intentionally manipulate the conversation.

But framing, according to Wikipedia, is:

"a schema of interpretation, a collection of anecdotes and stereotypes, that individuals rely on to understand and respond to events.[3] In other words, people build a series of mental "filters" through biological and cultural influences. They then use these filters to make sense of the world. The choices they then make are influenced by their creation of a frame."

Having read up on it a bit, if you accept this concept, then it seems that convincing anyone they are "wrong" on subjects relating to core values is almost impossible. Whatever they see or hear is run through their life-long frame system and made to fit their world-view.

It helps make sense of a lot of sticky questions like why people go along with things that are obviously bonkers (Trump), or support things that in the end are actually not in their own (or society's) best interests.

I like to use tattoos as an example. While there are certainly large social/cultural ideas associated with them, they do seem to elicit very strong personal feelings amongst some people. Why? Why would it matter at all?

Of course, this leads to my own perceptions and thoughts (am I not just running things through my own frames?) which is a rabbit hole. But hopefully, once one is self-aware of things like this they can then separate those feelings out from the facts. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences)
Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across - Sun Tzu

Offline Yank _ya_haggis

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2016, 05:45:35 PM »
I recently started volunteering with rspb here in Scotland, I'm 36 and used to be one of those inconsiderate little sh*t heads. Now I have alot more respect for the woodlands.. But the sad truth is it's probably grown ass men doing all the damage!! We have a problem with fucktards breaking glass in the twitching huts..

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Offline F4mandolin

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2016, 06:06:24 PM »
This is why I have stopped using big rocks to repair the trails. Idiots are out there.....bored....pick the big rocks up and toss them into the river (or over the fence etc etc). I pick up packs full of a sand/small rock mixture. Anybody who is bored enough to pick up sand/small rocks is really really serious about being a jerk. I still get to fix the trails....
Fred

Offline martiabernathey

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2016, 08:32:39 AM »
The whole littering thing I just don't get it. I've seen people literally throw trash on the ground without even a second thought. When people litter in America they do it on the sly. It's something that's seen as embarrassing to do.  We have a beautiful area around where I live and it's full of trash. There are trash cans everywhere! How lazy do have to be too not use them? I don't get the littering thing at all.

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Offline jimbocz

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2016, 11:01:23 AM »
I recently started volunteering with rspb here in Scotland, I'm 36 and used to be one of those inconsiderate little sh*t heads. Now I have alot more respect for the woodlands.. But the sad truth is it's probably grown ass men doing all the damage!! We have a problem with fucktards breaking glass in the twitching huts..

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Do you think they are doing it for the pleasure of breaking glass, to piss off the birdwatchers, or to serve some other dodgy purposes?  I think that once you understand the motivation, you can deal with it.

Offline jimbocz

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2016, 11:06:46 AM »
The whole littering thing I just don't get it. I've seen people literally throw trash on the ground without even a second thought. When people litter in America they do it on the sly. It's something that's seen as embarrassing to do.  We have a beautiful area around where I live and it's full of trash. There are trash cans everywhere! How lazy do have to be too not use them? I don't get the littering thing at all.

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That's the one thing that will put me off a country right away.  Ecuador was like that, it was totally normal to throw any container straight on the ground as soon as it was no longer needed.  Almost every surface in the entire country was covered in trash and it was pretty unpleasant.  I don't care how poor you are, it doesn't cost anything to clean up your trash. 
Turkey was the opposite, everything was pretty clean. 

Offline Yank _ya_haggis

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2016, 11:24:32 AM »

Do you think they are doing it for the pleasure of breaking glass, to piss off the birdwatchers, or to serve some other dodgy purposes?  I think that once you understand the motivation, you can deal with it.
Just drunk idiots. It just seems to be the one of three huts.. The other two, worse thing is fag buts. But I hear there going to CCTV the area.

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Offline Yank _ya_haggis

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2016, 11:30:28 AM »
That's the one thing that will put me off a country right away.  Ecuador was like that, it was totally normal to throw any container straight on the ground as soon as it was no longer needed.  Almost every surface in the entire country was covered in trash and it was pretty unpleasant.  I don't care how poor you are, it doesn't cost anything to clean up your trash. 
Turkey was the opposite, everything was pretty clean.
It is amazing I seen so many just toss drink cans, fag packs etc.. It is a kind of messed up situation in the UK really. On one hand I'm thinking it's atrocious, but on the other I look at the town cleaners and think firstly; hats off there hard working ppl who keep our towns clean, secondly; they have that job because scum litter everywhere!! So is it a balance??

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Offline martiabernathey

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2016, 02:54:36 PM »
It is amazing I seen so many just toss drink cans, fag packs etc.. It is a kind of messed up situation in the UK really. On one hand I'm thinking it's atrocious, but on the other I look at the town cleaners and think firstly; hats off there hard working ppl who keep our towns clean, secondly; they have that job because scum litter everywhere!! So is it a balance??

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I live in Chatham. The basics isn't here. There's trash even in the prettiest of places. I took this just now:




It is amazing I seen so many just toss drink cans, fag packs etc.. It is a kind of messed up situation in the UK really. On one hand I'm thinking it's atrocious, but on the other I look at the town cleaners and think firstly; hats off there hard working ppl who keep our towns clean, secondly; they have that job because scum litter everywhere!! So is it a balance??

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Offline Yank _ya_haggis

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Re: Stuff
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2016, 04:51:07 PM »
I live in Chatham. The basics isn't here. There's trash even in the prettiest of places. I took this just now:





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Wow that's just crazy..I have lived in Northampton, London, Milton Keynes, Luton, and now Scotland. And to be honest Scotland is the cleanest, I don't see all the weed baggies and syringes like London, that was just filthy. And you are so right there are trash cans all over, I have witnessed ppl littering right next to them!! The ppl don't reload what great country we have here, compared to Florida sure we had the everglades, but there is hardly any green areas besides parks in South Florida.. Such a shame.

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