Author Topic: Recommendations for CSI companies  (Read 831 times)

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Offline Nan D.

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Recommendations for CSI companies
« on: December 05, 2016, 03:40:31 PM »
Have been checking on CSI for my daughter. Companies in the States have some programs and they are terribly expensive (many hundreds of pounds).  Found a number of companies in the UK, but aside from the major ones (BUPA, etc. - which are actually still less than half the cost of what US companies are quoting us) they seem much more reasonable - in the realm of 70 pounds a month. 

However, since this is all on the Internet, I have no idea how to tell if these are reputable companies or some guy in his basement who is talented with website design....?  Can anyone recommend a good basic CSI policy for a 20-something person in Scotland?  We won't want cover in the USA, just in the UK.

Thanks!

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2017, 08:54:19 AM »
OK, then....

Now I really have to get after it and find an insurance policy for her. I checked one out here in the States, and they don't actually seem to contract with any doctors in Glasgow.... GeoBlue has one that might serve...

No recommendations at all? This is for the CSI required for EU family permit. We know she can see a GP for a consult, but will have to pay for labs and any hospital admits, so any advice on a reliable plan would be really, really appreciated.

Not that I'm feeling overwhelmed or anything.  ::)   ;D

Offline ksand24

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2017, 09:34:58 AM »
No recommendations at all? This is for the CSI required for EU family permit. We know she can see a GP for a consult, but will have to pay for labs and any hospital admits, so any advice on a reliable plan would be really, really appreciated.

That's not true - on an EEA Family Permit she is fully eligible for all free NHS treatment, as well as UK public funds/benefits.

The CSI is really just a formality - she is supposed to secure it for the EEA Family Permit application... she has to have it to meet requirements, but she won't actually need to use it in the UK.

As far as I can tell, all she needs to do is purchase health insurance from a private health insurance company - either from a US company that will cover students studying abroad in the UK, or a UK company (like BUPA/Spire) once she arrives in the UK.

However, once she is in the UK, she won't actually need to use it, because the NHS will cover all her healthcare anyway.

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 09:50:00 AM »
I was under the impression that yes, she can use it, but that she has to pay for it. Will know more when the permit arrives later this morning, I guess. But a look around the internet says you are correct, ksand.... so I guess we just find one with a huge deductible (to lower the cost) and she's good to go then.  :)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 09:56:22 AM by Nan D. »

Offline ksand24

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 10:01:03 AM »
I was under the impression that yes, she can use it, but that she has to pay for it. Will know more when the permit arrives later this morning, I guess.

Nope, as the family member of an EEA citizen she is fully entitled to all free NHS care. The only stipulation is that as a student, she must also purchase CSI even though she will not need to use it.

The only people who have to pay for NHS at point of service are:
- visitors to the UK (on visitor visas)
- people on UK visas valid less than 6 months

People coming to the UK under UK immigration laws (UK visas) have to pay an NHS surcharge to use it for free at point of service (£150/year for students, £200/year for everyone else), but EEA family members have more rights than people on visas - they can use the NHS for free (and claim UK benefits), it's just that if they are self-sufficient or a student, they also have to show they have CSI as well.

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 04:18:47 PM »
Wow. We'd be happy to pay the annual fee to use it, like we did when she went over as a student. It seems only fair.  But then, we hope to not be using it!  ;D

Offline Sirius

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 10:49:21 AM »
That's not true - on an EEA Family Permit she is fully eligible for all free NHS treatment, as well as UK public funds/benefits.

Don't believe what some papers say about EEA citizens having UK benefits as that was all stopped a few years ago, including for the those already in the UK and claiming UK benefits for years as all their UK benefits just stopped

Some can have some UK benefits, workers and self employed who are in "genuine and effective" work, but only after a while and only if they pass the UK test for workers and keep meeting that requirment.

Others can only have limited benefits now and only for a set time. i.e. for the past few years there is nothing for jobseekers when they arrive for the first three months and if they come form a rich EEA country then they claim benefits from them for that time. Then just the UK JSA benefit (about £72 per week) for the next 3 months only, but nothing else, not even for housing nor any benefits for their children. 6 months is the limit to reside in the UK as a jobseeker.

If the EEA citizen is working in the UK and lose their job, they can only be a jobseeking qualified person for 6 months and after that all UK benefits stop. Brits get JSA for two years and no time limit on the other benefits for housing and their children.

Disability payments - they must have resided on the UK for something like 102 weeks out of the last three years.

With MAC reporting on what benefits those who were a foreign national when they first applied for a NINo are taking, more and more benefits are getting shut down. The last casualty being the the Tax Credit benefits from this April, after MAC reported in 2014 that 5 billion a year was being given to these people just in that benefit.


But, inactive EEA citizens who want a right to reside on a path to PR, cannot have benefits from that EEA country. The EU classes inactive EEA citizens as students and self sufficients. Some take them and are then refused PR as they were not being a qualified person. Some workers take them but take too much and can't have PR. And it changes all the time for EU rules.

The CSI is really just a formality - she is supposed to secure it for the EEA Family Permit application... she has to have it to meet requirements, but she won't actually need to use it in the UK.

Inactive EEA citizens and all their family members, must have a CSI at all times to have a right to reside. Too many have stopped their CSI after they got an RC, which then means they then have no right to reside in the UK and it makes their RC invalid.

The CSI requirement was brought in under the Directive in 2004, but the UK only implemented this in 2011. Other EEA countries do bill these people but the UK laws said that the NHS was free for those legally in the UK. As we know that 'free to those legally in the UK' stopped in April 2015 when the Immigration Act changed that. And for Brits retired to other EEA countries, it linked the UK state pension to free healthcare from the UK and all the others then had to buy CSIs to pay for their healthcare in that EEA country.

Those using EU laws to be in the UK, are under EU laws for the NHS: free to workers and jobseekers and a CSI needed for students and self sufficients. At the moment, NHS England guidance to NHS staff allows those who need a CSI to use the NHS for free, but they don't have to under EU laws. The UK changes who can have what for EEA citizens, all the time. I've no idea what NHS Scotland allows as I haven't read their guidance.

Nope, as the family member of an EEA citizen she is fully entitled to all free NHS care. The only stipulation is that as a student, she must also purchase CSI even though she will not need to use it.

Not all EEA citizen students need a CSI but although Nan's daughter is a student, she won't be classed as a student under EEA rules. She will be a direct family member of an EEA citizen who is self sufficient.


Family members can only have what their EEA citizen can have. i.e. If Nan's daughter worked and paid UK taxes, she would still need a CSI as her EEA sponsor (Nan) needs a CSI. If Nan becomes a worker qualified person then neither her of her daughter need a CSI, even though her daughter is a student, because her daughter is not a student qualified person under EU rules.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 11:51:16 AM by Sirius »

Offline Sirius

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 10:59:21 AM »
Can anyone recommend a good basic CSI policy for a 20-something person in Scotland?  We won't want cover in the USA, just in the UK.

Everyone asks that. :)

It has to be  "comprehensive" to comply what the EU Directive states and most on the EEA forums agree that it will have to cover exisiting conditions to be "comprehensive".

Maybe go for one of the big names that talks about CSI? As your daughter is young and healthly, it won't cost much. Private healthcare in the UK is cheap compared to the insurance based US system and the policy prices reflect that.

My private health insurance is with BUPA, but I don't need a CSI so I don't know what they cover for that.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 11:14:20 AM by Sirius »

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 04:31:19 PM »
Checking all, Sirius, thanks.

Looks like it would be easiest if I can find work!  But even if I do I'll still have CSI, as it's part of my US pension package from my employer. It's the kiddo I need to source out insurance for.  I'm not able to find a company so far in Scotland that will allow us to purchase the insurance until we literally have arrived.  I've found one here in the States that will, but need to check to see if it will allow us to purchase it for only as long as it takes to get covered in Scotland..... the US plan isn't cheap, even for "only overseas" coverage.

I've done some reading on Scotland and NHS, and unless they changed it since Christmas break anyone "ordinarily resident" in Scotland is entitled to NHS. Appointments with GPs would be free in any event.  We would happily pay for any needed medication. Will have to check the finer details. Then again, we don't actually plan for my daughter to become ill enough to require a hospital stay - but who does? ::)

Offline Sirius

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 06:25:07 PM »
I've done some reading on Scotland and NHS, and unless they changed it since Christmas break anyone "ordinarily resident" in Scotland is entitled to NHS.

That "ordinarily resident" doesn't mean what you think it does. The Immigration Act 2014 changed the defination of what "ordinarily resident" is for NHS purposes, which then allowed the UK to charge for the NHS.

"The  Act  therefore  redefines  the  ordinarily  resident  test and  in  doing  so
excludes  all  migrants  who  do  not  enjoy  Indefinite  Leave  to  Remain
in  the United Kingdom."


Page 4 and 5
http://www.landmarkchambers.co.uk/userfiles/documents/resources/DOC%20Immigration%20Act.pdf


But you are under EEA laws and it will be what Scotland will give to Self Sufficient qualified persons. It could be the same a NHS England is at the moment, you need CSIs but don't need to use them.

Offline Sirius

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 06:40:33 PM »
It's the kiddo I need to source out insurance for.  I'm not able to find a company so far in Scotland that will allow us to purchase the insurance until we literally have arrived.  I've found one here in the States that will, but need to check to see if it will allow us to purchase it for only as long as it takes to get covered in Scotland..... the US plan isn't cheap, even for "only overseas" coverage.

Then why not wait until you get here and then do that asap, having already worked out who you will buy that from?

You could get her travel health insurance to cover her for her journey from the US to the UK (you never know what happens on that journey or if the plane will be diverted) and until her CSI is in place? I don't step out of the UK unless I am covered by full private health insurance.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 06:44:25 PM by Sirius »

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 06:47:40 PM »
I was under the impression that we had to show proof of CSI just to get her into the country is why. :)

If she is employed here she'll have cover through the end of the month of April, so it'll be just a matter of  COBRA'ing her employer's coverage here for a month - that'll give us the leeway we need to get a local plan once we are there.  I'm just trying to cover all the bases in case she can't find a job between now and then - unlikely, but possible.

I'm finding all sorts of plans - hospital only, hospital plus GP, etc., etc. - it's kind of bewildering.  I also just found this page  https://www.activequote.com/health-insurance/comprehensive-sickness-insurance.aspx  and am checking with those companies.  And then there's also expat insurance. Which appears to be different again.  ???

Offline Sirius

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2017, 07:58:58 PM »
I was under the impression that we had to show proof of CSI just to get her into the country is why. :)

Oh, I see.  :) Your FPs will get your daughter into the UK and remember that you can stay for the first 3 months without you being a qualified person as you are an EEA citizen. After that you must be a QP to have a right to reside in the UK.

Strangely, it seems that the UK is the only country to give a 6 month FP as the rest only give 3 month FPs, but EEA citizens can only stay for 3 months without being a QP in the UK.

As soon as you get her CSI, send off for your daughter's RC with that proof of you exercising treaty rights, so she has that RC for her university. As lots are going for these RCs now, they can take a while. But remember too that you and your direct family members (you did well there) don't need an RC to have a right to reside in the UK as you just have to be a QP. With CSIs in place, you are being QPs.


I'm finding all sorts of plans - hospital only, hospital plus GP, etc., etc. - it's kind of bewildering.  I also just found this page  https://www.activequote.com/health-insurance/comprehensive-sickness-insurance.aspx  and am checking with those companies.  And then there's also expat insurance. Which appears to be different again.  ???

If you google you will come up with stuff like this which mentions some of the big names.
http://www.healthinsurancesolutions.co.uk/aviva-health-insurance/

I haven't read any of them so don't think I am telling you to use them. I have just googled it.

It will then just be a case of reading the small print. Or have a google and see who others have said they used and had it approved by UKVI.

You might even like to read through that link again that I gave you before, on what the UK says is a QP person in the UK? It also mentions about that first 3 months and you will be able to see that you are ok.

And perhaps the EEA forums too to get a better idea of what you need to do and to ensure I am not giving you duff information? :) Most of those posting asking for help, have got it all wrong, but as always we learn a lot from other peoples errors. Some are very good on EEA rules and help each other out. You might feel better getting lots of people telling you the same thing. Forums like this one perhaps?
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-route-applications/
I'm on there, but I promise I won't post any replies to you so you can see what others say. :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 08:15:51 PM by Sirius »

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2017, 04:43:34 PM »
I found one here in the USA through the Blue network  for just over $100 a month for her (about 80 pounds) that seems perfect. So, problem solved. Thanks for your help!

Provides an unlimited annual and lifetime maximum.
No waiting periods associated with any preventive services.
The pre-existing condition exclusion can be waived with proof of prior creditable insurance.
No pre-certification required for inpatient and outpatient care.
Deductible is waived for office visits and a small copay applies.
Covers injuries or illnesses that are a result of a terrorist act.
Access to an elite provider network for better diagnosis, treatment and medical outcomes.
Our providers bill GeoBlue directly, which eliminates paperwork hassles.
Ability to customize your coverage to suit your needs.
The strength of Blue. GeoBlue Xplorer Essential is offered in cooperation with certain local Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies, which collectively cover 1 in 3 Americans.

Offline Sirius

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Re: Recommendations for CSI companies
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2017, 03:51:24 PM »
I found one here in the USA through the Blue network  for just over $100 a month for her (about 80 pounds) that seems perfect. So, problem solved. Thanks for your help!

That seems high if she hasn't got any existing health problems. Have you looked to see if you can find one cheaper than that from a UK company? Private healthcare tends to be cheaper in the UK than in the US as the UK is not governed by health insurance companies and the UK insurance policies reflect that cost.

Perhaps buy travel insurance to give her health cover for her journey from the US to the UK and then buy a CSI from a UK company as soon as you arrive? You can work out the costs and cover for a UK company, before you travel. With UK insurance a quote is often held for a set time with a reference number, although you could check that for CSIs when you are looking around.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 04:32:54 PM by Sirius »