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Topic: LIve Feed Supreme Court Art 50 Case  (Read 1109 times)

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LIve Feed Supreme Court Art 50 Case
« on: December 05, 2016, 05:13:02 PM »
https://www.supremecourt.uk/

I will be giving a nightly recap if you miss it:

Today they talked at great length about many things I had little understanding of.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: LIve Feed Supreme Court Art 50 Case
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 09:23:36 AM »
Thoburn v Sunderland City Council [2002] EWHC 195 (Admin)* is a very interesting case, dealling ostensibly with EU supremacy, but allowing Lord Laws (who writes some good stuff in journals about constitutional philosophy) to introduce his hierarchy of "constitutional statutes": a law made by Parliament affecting the Constitution must be exspressly repealed, it can't be simply replaced.

Like most, I sometimes wonder whether the monastic nature of the Courts render them out of touch...I don't run into people with vowels like the SC Lords and Baronesse often.....but the papers this morning show that there is actually a lot of push and pull between at least the political and the judiciary: May has adjusted her stance.   

*I think this is the correct OSCOLA
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: LIve Feed Supreme Court Art 50 Case
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 09:14:17 AM »
May has adjusted her stance.   

Maybe not.

By-the-way, Cambridge MP Daniel Zeichner (L), son of an Austrian immigrant*, voted against.

*Sounds like it could be used as a wonky invective.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: LIve Feed Supreme Court Art 50 Case
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 06:57:15 PM »
The "constitution" in the UK is so incredibly complicated, ever changing, and confusing with layers of hierarchy and sub-hierarchy within elements. What's in at one moment and out the next. I guess it is the epitome of common law over enumeration, but it is very problematic and chaotic coming from a US legal mindset.

As a matter of law, it should come down simply to what does it take in UK constitutional law to exit a treaty. Can a PM unilaterally exit some other treaty without parliamentary approval? With or without cabinet approval?

If it is a matter of rights given cannot be taken away without parliament assent, then I'd say rights created in treaty are not created in law unless parliament passes a law codifying those rights. If they do, then exiting the treaty is irrelevant because the UK law still exists, which I understand to be the fact in this case.

Then there is the lesser question if parliament's authorization of the referendum implied a legislative intent to act on its result. That's a coin flip. The US supreme court would likely kick that back to congress calling it a political question, but the UK supreme court I've found to be far far far more political - I think owing to their origin in the house of lords.

I'm not nearly expert enough in British law, especially constitutional law, to give any kind of serious commentary on this case, but I'll be interested to read their opinion when they're done.


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Re: LIve Feed Supreme Court Art 50 Case
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 10:35:31 AM »
As a matter of law, it should come down simply to what does it take in UK constitutional law to exit a treaty.

I think you are right here, and I think the decision will show in ratio that this was the point on which it all turned.

But lurking in the background is certainly this continuing question about separation of powers....with the Court's role itself in question.

Dicey says of prerogative powers:

"Every act which the executive government can lawfully do without the authority of an Act of Parliament is done in virtue of the prerogative."

That's a broad treatment...requiring, with no codified Constitution, ad hoc judicial review......which according to convention they are not really charged to do.

It seems to work though, the world keeps turning.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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