Spouse visa questions (name change, US marriage, etc.)

Hello everyone!

I've been reading as much as I can on here and am really grateful for the help. I have a few questions specific to my situation, but I hope it will be helpful to others, too.

I'm American; she's British. Current plan is for her to visit me in the US, get married there, and I'll apply for the spouse visa from the US. There are a few wrinkles, though:

I was not born in the US but am a naturalized citizen. Does this matter, or is my US passport enough proof of citizenship? Do I need the new certificate of citizenship from the US in addition to the passport? (The certificate of citizenship costs almost $2K, so that might mean I can't afford to apply for the visa.)

I have had a name change since my passport was first issued. The name was amended in the first passport and my current name is in my current passport. (From what I understand, I need to submit both passports.) We will not change last names after marriage. Is this going to be an issue? If so, is there anything I can do (besides submitting the name change certificate, explaining the name change on the cover letter, etc.)?

How can my fiancee get a certified copy of her UK passport? (Sorry, I suspect this is a rookie question.)

My fiancee can support me financially, but her money is in a joint bank account with her business partner. She's concerned that this will not be sufficient proof of financial support.

Quick clarification: When the application info says we need to prove previous relationships have broken down, is that only applicable to marriages? That is, if my fiancee has children from an unmarried previous partner, does she have to prove that they're not still together? (He is still her business partner.)

I'm assuming we'll need to submit photos of the two of us together. Can they just be casual shots of going out together (restaurant, museum, etc.) or do they need to be something specific?

For proving that our relationship is genuine, I have boarding passes/emails from our visit, screenshots of emails/IMs, etc. How much is enough? We have literally thousands of messages and emails from the past few years, and I have no idea which ones are "good enough" to prove we knew each other.

And if the IMs, etc. are in screen names rather than our legal names, will that be a problem? I'm not quite sure how to prove that the screen names are really us.

Is there any discrimination/extra scrutiny for same sex spouse visa applications? Or are they treated the same?

Pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but just wanting to confirm: If she's not a legal resident of another European country, it's hopeless trying to get married there on short notice, right? We had considered going to Gibraltar to get married, but they require birth certificates and I don't have one (long story).

I know that everything is unpredictable, but if 12 weeks is a typical timeline for non-priority applications and summer is the busiest season for out-of-country applications, what would be an estimate (assuming all goes well and all paperwork is in order) for how long it might take from marriage in the US to getting a visa? Is 6 months a reasonable estimate? I have a lease expiring in August back in the US and am not sure how to plan around it. If, by some miracle, a visa application came through early, how long do I have to get to the UK after receiving it?

Also, just wanting to clarify this as well. My fiancee does NOT need an alien registration number to get married in the US, correct? Her UK passport is enough? Will she need her birth certificate to apply for a marriage license?

Thank you so much for all of your help! And thank you in advance for all of the questions I can see myself asking in the next few months or (heaven forbid) years until we get the visa processed.

Okay, I'm going to try to tackle these one at a time.

You do not need a certificate, just your passport.  You do need to submit any and all passports you have (so if you have one from another country, submit that as well, even though you are applying on your US passport).

The visa will be issued in the name on your current passport.  Also use that name for the application.

UKVI does not care if you do or don't change your name (either of you).

She can get a certified copy of her UK passport at the Post Office or a bank.

Which financial category are you applying under?  Self-employment is the trickiest category due to the sheer number of volume of documents required.  And sometimes people don't calculate their income correctly and actually don't make enough to sponsor.  You need to figure out the category before you go much further.  It's definitely the most important part of the application.

Correct, only legal relationship breakdowns need paperwork (to show you were free and clear to marry).  I believe she will need to include her children's birth certificates with the application but it won't affect the financial requirements or anything.

You only need one or two photos of you together. These are simply to prove you've met in person.  Nothing fancy.

You want 1 or 2 pages in total of continuing communication.  You don't want content, just times/dates of communication.  How frequent of messages you show depends on the length of the relationship.  If two months, I'd show something daily.  If two years, I'd show a few messages each month, etc.

Same sex applications are viewed identically to opposite sex applications.

Honestly, marrying in the US is probably easiest of all.  I personally would only look into marrying in another European country if she is not allowed to enter the US on an ESTA.

You'll need to check with the county courthouse in which you plan to marry what the requirements are.  They vary slightly.  But no, she won't need an alien registration number - not heard that one before.  She will need her passport, possibly her birth certificate.  Different counties will have different requirements to how long she's been present in the US for (cooling off period, usually no more than 3 days).  Basically there are as many answers to this as people!

When do you plan to apply?  Processing times vary wildly throughout the year, though they seem to be slowing down overall versus last year.  12 weeks may or may not be realistic.  Remember after the visa is issued, you only have 30 days to move to the UK.  They rarely honor the requested travel date unfortunately.

Bless you!! <3 Goodness, just...wow! Thank you, thank you, thank you. So quick, thorough, and direct. For the most part, it all sounds fabulous. (Except timeline, but we knew going in that this would be totally unpredictable)

Sadly, yes my fiancee is self-employed (and works from home). Can you point me toward any FAQ or starter list for all of the documents she would need?

She has just renewed/updated her UK passport, and I think she does need to apply for ESTA to visit me in the US. (Everyone does, correct?) Are there any issues with applying for the ESTA, or is it pretty straightforward?

Sorry to be the noob with all of the obvious questions! Thank you again.

Have a look at the financial requirements and figure out which category fits:  https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525708/Appendix_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement.pdf

Yes, if she just got a new passport, she'll need a new ESTA.  Very simple, just make sure she is using the correct site.  Only costs $14ish.  And is valid for 2 years, multiple entry.  Issued instantly.

Thank you! We have made a list of all the paperwork we need, and we have a few small questions but one MAJOR panic.

Help help help!

On the immigration rules page here:https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

It says:

--------------

1. In relation to evidencing the financial requirements in Appendix FM the following general provisions shall apply:

    (a) Bank statements must:
        (i) be from a financial institution regulated by the appropriate regulatory body for the country in which that institution is operating.
        (ii) not be from a financial institution on the list of excluded institutions in Appendix P of these rules.
        (iii) in relation to personal bank statements be only in the name of:
            (1) the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both as appropriate

--------

My fiancee's main personal bank account is a joint bank account with her business partner.

What are we going to do? 

We're both completely panicking.

She does not have enough money to meet the 62K savings requirement, and that would take a minimum of 6 months, anyway.

She can take her business partner off the joint personal bank account, but then I think we have to wait an entire year before applying?

We believe that she can NOT combine savings plus personal income (she does have an individual personal bank account) because she is self-employed (director of a limited company).

We're seeing conflicting information whether we can combine our incomes--either that we absolutely can't and she has to provide the 18K annual income alone, or that we can combine income but it's a total nightmare.


We found this information here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270197/sup-docs-settlement.pdf


--------
If you do not need to meet the ‘Financial Requirement’ then you can submit
any of the following financial documents to provide us with evidence of how your stay in the UK will be funded.  You should consider
including evidence of your total monthly income from all sources, for example employment, friends, family, savings or property.  If you are providing documents from a joint account then please explain who the other account holders are, and why you have permission to spend money from the account.

-------


This is technically information about me (the applicant), but is there any possibility my fiancee's business partner could submit a letter explaining why she has access to the funds and why they have a joint account? (It's because they have two children together, and they remain on good terms as well as co-owning their limited company.)

 

Help?

Any brilliant ideas?

Please please please don't tell us that the application is doomed. We've gotten this far and slugged through all of the other logistics, but this seems to be the dream-killer.

P.S.

Update and clarification:

Fiancee earns well over the minimum 18.6K per year. The issue is not *amount* of money but where the money is.

She has a personal tax computation certified by her professional accountant for 2015 and 2016 that shows the earned income in her name only.

However, most of the income went into the joint account with her business partner (as did his) because they purchased a house last year. This income with the monthly statements (for their joint account) is well over the 18.6K just considering her income alone.

She can get a statement from her business partner/joint account holder stating that half the money is hers, and if it helps she can start paying herself a salary into her personal account.

Would we get any grace considering that she is very much able to provide financial support for me (and all of the other requirements)?

Alternatively: If she changes the joint bank account into her name only, would it count retroactively? That is, if she got statements now for the past year, would that be enough? Or would it be discounted because it was a joint account at that time? (She's concerned that this will look sketchy and is impossible anyway, but we're grasping at straws here.)

I think you also might have a problem proving your relationship - your partner bought a house with her previous partner last year, they remain business partners and have joint bank accounts. They would probably pass the relationship test for UKVI...

You cannot use any of your income towards the requirement unless you already have the right to work in the UK and are doing so. Your saving can counts towards the £62K savings route.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of work-arounds for not meeting the strict financial documentation requirements (unless your partner receives DLA?).

The Surrinder Singh route would mean your partner liquidating all UK assets, moving to another EU country and making it the 'centre of their life' and then move back with you to the UK under EU rules. But with Brexit... these are uncertain times.

Yeah, when you mentioned the joint account with her business partner before, I assumed they were both signature holders on the business account.  Her having a joint account, mortgage, and children with someone else is very sticky.  It's wonderful that they have a great relationship (which will make a huge difference for the kids), but it's not particularly normal.

What about you?  Do you have £62,500 in savings from the US?  Can be from the same of a home or a fully vested 401k.  Will you have rental income or pension income that will continue when you move?  They will consider those sources of income for you.

Unfortunately I think your partner needs to see the bank and possibly an attorney and start to unweave the web from the father of her children before you two can make too many strides forward.  You may want to speak with an attorney.  There are two we usually recommend.  Medivisas based in London (Victoria Sharkey) or Laura Devine who has offices in both NYC and London.

Keep us posted!

Not unexpected news, but still a blow. Thank you, nevertheless, for your feedback. The house is because they run the company together, and they have kept things extremely amicable because of the kids and business. Personally, I think it's wonderful for the sake of the kids.

Just for the sake of finances alone (not considering whether we can prove our relationship), would it technically meet financial criteria if she pays herself a salary into her individual bank account that will meet the minimum for her company's 2016-2017 financial year?

And/or, would it be easier for her to offer me a job with her company and sponsor me on a work visa (and then hopefully prove our relationship once her finances become independent long enough to meet spouse visa requirements)?

She looked into this route originally because we were a bit hesitant at making the marriage commitment so soon (although we've known each other for a few years, we've only gotten serious in the past 6-12 months). However, because of her kids and the business she can't come to the US to be with me. (One of the kids is disabled and needs full-time care, which is another reason her relationship with former partner is so amicable--and why she can't liquidate assets and move within the EU even if Brexit weren't a concern.)

I'm hearing that we will probably need to speak to an attorney no matter what. My question: about how much does this cost for an initial consultation? Will they give any feedback before a formal, sit-down meeting? (We are not in London, and although we could get there it would be nice not to make the trip if we'll just get told we have no hope of me coming here.)

Thank you, again, even if it's not the answers we were hoping for.

Self-employed income is treated differently than salaried income.  So unfortunately it isn't as easy as her simply paying a suitable salary to herself.

She *could* look into sponsoring your employment.  However, that is going to take several months, many thousands of pounds, and legal work in order for her to obtain a sponsorship license.  Once she receives a sponsorship license, she will have to prove that there is no one else in the UK or EU that is suitable for the position in order to sponsor you.  Possible, but difficult.

A good attorney is not going to be an inexpensive option.  However, they may be able to help you unravel the business and make it more traditional, so that she can sponsor your visa in the future.  You wouldn't need to meet with anyone face-to-face.  They are used to their clients being based in a different country.

While buying a house together last year may have made sense to them - I'm sure you can see where it is a very unique situation and UKVI will be suspicious.  I don't think the two of them having a business together will ever be an issue.  I think the joint finances and home will be tougher to address.

Oh yes, fiancee has been worried from the start that we won't get approved. I was more concerned about the emotional aspects (Are we making too big of a commitment too soon? What if I move over here and we break up? Am I ready to be a good stepmom to two teens? Etc.). So we're both a bit blindsided here.

She does not get DLA. Her child received DLA until turning 16 last month and is in the process of applying for PIP (adult version of DLA and what will be used as DLA is phased out).

She is concerned that since they run the company out of their home, they won't get accepted for a sponsorship license. (The house was purchased partly because they needed a handicap-accessible living space for their child and partly to have enough space for their business.)

We are tentatively looking into the savings route (62K available for a minimum of 6 months). Are you saying that we can combine our savings to get to that amount? We are a long way from that now. Do the 62K pounds need to be available for the full 33 months of my spouse visa (should it get approved), or can it be used toward supporting us while I live here?

I know our situation looks rather strange from the outside, but the disabled child plus financial situation (she just spent a fortune converting the new house to be accessible for her child) are why we're here. Problem is whether we could convince immigration of that.

The other big worry is that Trump etc. will likely get rid of same-sex marriage in the US as soon as they can, which would potentially prevent the UK from recognizing us getting married (if we, for example, hurried up and got married before a new Supreme Court justice struck down marriage equality). So we have a big sense of urgency here.

We've talked through everything we can think of, but the ESTA only allows her into the US for 90 days at a time (even if she could leave the business and her disabled child that long, which she can't) so we can't establish joint relationship paper trails that way. We can't establish it in the UK because I can't get official visa to stay here. She can't leave the UK because of her disabled child and business, and if she leaves the UK she loses her source of income (and then can't meet the income requirements).

With the whole Trump and anti-LGBT atmosphere in the US, seems like I should get to apply for political asylum. (Tongue in cheek here, but I am worried about my safety in the US.)

Quick update:

Thank you for the recommendations! I've gotten through at Medivisas and spoken with a Beth Morrison who thinks we have a good case--but agrees that we need professional help to make it.

Does anyone know the success rate of those who hire an attorney for the process? Hiring one (900 pounds) is cheaper than having to re-apply if the first application fails, but it's a lot of money if we still get rejected.

Has anyone else here used an attorney? Is there a thread, etc. for those going through the process?

We're cautiously optimistic but still very worried. Adding another 900 pounds to the exorbitant fees will make it even more difficult to prove finances via the savings route, should we have to go there. In the US we have so many stories of people giving their life's savings to immigration lawyers only to get screwed.

They are good there.  I genuinely do not think they would say they can get your visa if they are unable to.

Keep us posted!

Quick update:

Thank you for the recommendations! I've gotten through at Medivisas and spoken with a Beth Morrison who thinks we have a good case--but agrees that we need professional help to make it.

Does anyone know the success rate of those who hire an attorney for the process? Hiring one (900 pounds) is cheaper than having to re-apply if the first application fails, but it's a lot of money if we still get rejected.

Has anyone else here used an attorney? Is there a thread, etc. for those going through the process?

We're cautiously optimistic but still very worried. Adding another 900 pounds to the exorbitant fees will make it even more difficult to prove finances via the savings route, should we have to go there. In the US we have so many stories of people giving their life's savings to immigration lawyers only to get screwed.

We see here the fallout from a lot of simple applications which have been unsuccessful due to bad advice from (other) lawyers.

What's relevant here is the success rate for the lawyer that you choose.  You may want to ask them for their statistics. 

We see here the fallout from a lot of simple applications which have been unsuccessful due to bad advice from (other) lawyers.

What's relevant here is the success rate for the lawyer that you choose.  You may want to ask them for their statistics. 

Larrabee, isn't this is one of the two immigration lawyers/groups that are suggested by Ksand?