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Topic: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control  (Read 2194 times)

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UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« on: March 03, 2017, 12:58:06 PM »
HI, my son (British) and his fiance (American living in Lebanon) are just staring the process of applying for a fiance VISA for her to come to the UK.  Unfortunately a month ago she was refused entry to the UK on the grounds they thought she was making ties in the UK so was going against her tourist visa (which had 2 months left on it).  They have now decided that they need to get the ball rolling on starting their life together and it made more sense to build their life in the UK as my son as a good job and somewhere to live. This has just forced their hand slightly as they hadn't planned to marry until next year.  Our concerns are 1) should she wait a certain amount of time between her refusal and applying for the fiance VISA?   2)  Would her refusal go against them, she was so scared at the desk that she didn't know what to say, didn't know what was happening and when questions were being fired at her she panicked did initially stated that she was travelling with her friend rather than boyfriend, however once she was questioned again she stated that he was her boyfriend and they had been seeing each other for x amount of months, etc etc.  2) If the VISA is granted can it still be overridden by border control at the airport?  3)  Any other advice most welcome.  It is so hard for them at the moment as people in a long distance relationship will know and it seems so unfair that they are being kept apart when they clearly love each other.   Thanks in advance, from a desperate mum who feels kinda helpless right now!!


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UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2017, 01:04:16 PM »
Welcome to the forum :).

1) No, she doesn't have to wait any length of time to apply - she can just apply for the fiancé visa when she's ready, meets the requirements and has all the required supporting documents in her hands

2) no, the refusal should not go against them - it may mean it takes a little longer for the visa to be processed, but that's all

3) no, usually once the visa has been granted she will be allowed in with no issues. They would only refuse entry if they determined the visa was obtained fraudulently or her circumstances have changed and she no longer meets the requirements for the visa. So she'll likely get a couple of questions about where her fiancé is, how she got the visa and her plans once in the UK, but that's all.


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UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2017, 01:09:41 PM »
Quick question though: you said she had two months left on her visitor visa when she was refused... did she actually apply for a visitor visa before travelling to the UK or did she get a visitor visa stamp when she first entered the UK?

If it was the latter and she didn't receive a visa in advance, then her initial 6-month visa stamp was cancelled the moment she left the UK the first time and the remaining time on it was wiped.... because it's only valid for one entry into the UK.

Therefore when she tried to come back in, she had no valid visitor visa and so was essentially applying for a whole new 6-month visitor visa... and was required to prove she was a genuine visitor, who had a job, home and a life to return to in Lebanon and was not making ties in the UK or spending more time in the UK than in Lebanon.


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2017, 01:19:48 PM »
Hi ksand24 thank you for your swift reply!  It was VISA stamp when she first entered the UK.  Naively we all didn't know the rules of this and she just assumed she was free to come and go as long as she didn't over stay her VISA.  Both herself and my son didn't  know it was wrong to enter the country on that VISA for seeing each other (as well as doing some sightseeing).  It seems it is quite strict that you come into the Country for the exact and only reason of your VISA?  It's a shame we didn't know of this forum before she traveled home, but in hindsight you only start googling answers when something goes wrong  :(   


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2017, 01:29:15 PM »
It isn't illegal to enter the UK on a tourist visa for sightseeing or to spend time with your family or partner. That's not why she was refused.

She was refused because they thought she was building ties to live permanently in the UK -- quite a different scenario.


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UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2017, 01:40:32 PM »
Both herself and my son didn't  know it was wrong to enter the country on that VISA for seeing each other (as well as doing some sightseeing).  It seems it is quite strict that you come into the Country for the exact and only reason of your VISA?

It's not wrong to use that visa - it's exactly the right (and only) visa they can use to see each other, you just have to be careful using it and you need to make sure you have evidence of being a genuine visitor and proof you will not try to overstay... because whether you are allowed into the UK or not depends entirely on the immigration office (IO) at the airport.

If it looks like she's trying to visit the UK too often (spending more time in the UK than in Lebanon) or she is using a visitor visa to 'live' in the UK, they can refuse entry... and she's not alone - entry refusals happen every day.

Some tips for visiting the UK successfully:
-try to spend at least as much time outside the UK as you did inside before you come back... so if she stayed for 4 months, then left, she should try to wait another 4 months before coming back

Each time you try to enter:
- have evidence of a return flight
- have bank statements showing you have enough money to support yourself for the entire trip without working
- have evidence of ties to the country where you live, which mean you HAVE to go back, such as:
1) letter from employer giving you time off and stating when you will return to work
2) evidence of a home you rent or own back home, which you are maintaining while in the UK
3) evidence of other commitments you must return for (family members, interviews, appointments, events like weddings etc.)
- show awareness of the visa rules and that you know you have to return to your country of residence to apply for a fiancé visa

So, just because she was refused entry this time doesn't mean she has to apply for a fiancé visa earlier than planned... it just means that if she tries to come back as a visitor again before applying for the fiancé visa, she should apply for a visitor visa in advance and make sure she has evidence that she will leave the UK and not try to stay.

So she could either apply for the fiancé visa sooner than planned and move earlier, or she could wait and instead try to get an advance visitor visa to come back for another visit.

There is also the Marriage Visitor Visa option which is much cheaper than the fiancé visa (£87 compared with £1,195) and would allow her to marry in the UK as a visitor then return to Lebanon to apply for a spousal visa to move to the UK after that - thereby saving £700+ in visa fees.


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2017, 01:45:06 PM »
She visited on the correct visa. It even states on the gov.uk website that she visited on the correct visa.

However, you need to see it from the view of Border Control. She was over on a visitor visa (absolutely fine). However, she then came back and tried to get another visitor visa I presume straight away (this was obviously because she was unaware of the rules which ksand explained).

It states on the gov.uk

You can’t:
do paid or unpaid work
live in the UK for long periods of time through frequent visits


This is what they were suspicious of and were probably right to refuse her.

However, I fail to believe this will go against her. It goes against you when you are removed from the country. She was merely refused entry.

However, I do advise that she stays out of the UK now until she gets her fiancée visa if you plan to get it soon.

From a financial perspective, it is cheaper to get married in the US (if they plan to visit) and then enter the UK on a spouse visa. Or a marriage visa. Something to think about and I recommend looking into to weigh up what is easier and cheaper depending on your circumstances or wedding wishes
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 01:50:43 PM by Ben1989 »
Feb 2014 - Married
29/04/2014 - Spouse Application Approved
02/05/2014 - Visa Received
09/01/2017 - FLR(M) Granted
22/07/2019 - ILR Granted
05/05/2022 - Citizenship


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2017, 01:59:46 PM »
Thank you everyone for your informative responses, they are a great help.  What done is done, it's how they move forward that counts.  They want to spend the rest of their lives together that is clear, so they just want to do it in the correct way and the quickest way of being together.  That is why they are looking at the fiance visa route, yes it is expensive and obviously there is then the marriage VISA that comes next (all within 6 months) so a lot of help.  Didn't think about getting married in the UK or US then returning back to their home countries, I'm guessing that will take much longer?  But cheaper it seems, so maybe we need to weigh up the pros and cons of this.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 02:01:02 PM by cn1973 »


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2017, 02:17:16 PM »
Just to clarify the terminology: the fiancé visa IS the marriage visa (it's a visa for the purpose of getting married in the UK), so they don't apply for a fiancé visa, then a marriage visa, they apply for a fiancé visa and then an FLR(M) spousal visa to stay.

Or it may be quicker and easier to marry in another country (the US or somewhere else) and then apply for a spousal visa, either from Lebanon or from the US.

I.e. They could fly to the US, marry within a couple of days, apply for a spousal visa from the US and be living together in the UK as a married couple within a few weeks.

A spousal visa allows her to work and use the NHS immediately but the fiancé visa does not allow any form of work and no free NHS access.


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2017, 02:21:54 PM »
you said your soon to be daughter in law lives in lebenon?  Here is some info on getting married there https://www.thespruce.com/how-to-get-married-in-lebanon-2303184   

Might be worth getting married there and then just applying straight away for her spouse visa?

Loads of us get married and then have a formal ceremony and reception with family and friends after. That's what we are planning!
Met Dublin Ireland- July 2013
Long distance from November 2014-2016
Married 😍 in NYC :6th of January 2017
Spouse Visa Approved!! : 27th of February 2017
Moved to UK: 28th of April 2017

Applied FLR(M)-  12th January 2020
Biometrics- 20th of January 2020


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2017, 02:24:08 PM »
Yes - that's the other option, marrying in Lebanon. We know more about marrying in the US but if it's easy to marry in Lebanon, they could do that and apply for the spousal visa there.


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2017, 02:25:47 PM »
ksand24 ah thank you, that makes more sense.  Opens up more questions now as to what route they may wish to take.  We have started the ball rolling with the fiance visa (gathering documents, inquiring into wedding in London, etc) but makes sense we look at all options. Quite scary that there is so much to it and to the likes of us that have very little knowledge it is quite daunting. All your advice has been a great help and comfort!

Thank you also Frazieme we will check out the link.  She she lives in Lebanon (a American citizen) and my son is a British citizen living in London.


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2017, 02:36:18 PM »
It's good that she's preparing already :).

The good news is that the documents required for the fiancé visa and spousal visa are exactly the same - so whichever one they go for, it's the same preparation.

The only difference is that for the fiancé visa, you show evidence of plans to marry in the UK and for the spousal visa you show your marriage certificate.


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2017, 02:50:53 PM »
As they start to explore the option of marrying in the UK, they may realise how slow and restrictive it is.  The UK does a great job of stripping the romance out of a wedding.

The process will be:
She gets her fiancé visa
Enters the UK
She needs to get her name on a piece of mail and have it sent to her (utility bill, etc.) - this can take several weeks
Once she has the mail in her name, they can go to a designated registry office that allows foreign nationals and give their notice to marry
They then have to wait a minimum of 28 days and a maximum of 70 days to marry, as the case will have to be referred to the Home Office for approval.  Because she will be on a fiancé visa, it's unlikely to be more than 28 days, but we are finding most registry offices will not book a ceremony earlier than 70 days due to the potential longer wait
After they receive Home Office approval, they can then marry
Within those six months after receiving the fiancé visa, she must apply for the next visa which is FLR(M)

So you can see how difficult it can be to plan a date and how quick the six months can pass with all the waiting around and hoops that have to be jumped through.


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Re: UK Fiance VISA can you still get refused at border control
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2017, 02:57:28 PM »
KFdancer wow yes I can see how quick the time will go and also how "unromantic" it all is!!  Re: the utility bill, they will be moving in with me (my son's family home) so that my son can save the majority of his money for the wedding and a place of their own once married.  So not sure how my future daughter-in-law can have a utility bill, etc in our address? 

ksand24 glad the two visa's require the same info, it will make life much easier second time around.


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