Author Topic: Help, refused entry into UK.  (Read 518 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline americangal2

  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Mar 2017
  • Liked: 0
Help, refused entry into UK.
« on: March 07, 2017, 02:06:56 AM »
Hi everyone! I’m new to the form and not quite sure how to start this but would really appreciate any help out there being that I’m going through a pretty tough time at the moment…
It all started November 2016, my boyfriend (European who has been living in the UK for more than 5 years) and I (American citizen living in Beirut, Lebanon) met while I was on a two week vacation in the UK. We spent my whole two weeks together and fell madly in love. He works as an engineer in Heathrow airport and we had a very beautiful and emotional farewell when I departed. We continued having a long distance relationship (him being in the UK, myself being in Lebanon) with a fixed date in February where I planned on coming out and spending a couple of months with him.
Upon arrival in February, I was stopped at boarder control, detained, interrogated, and sent back to Lebanon. (Reason of denial into UK was due to my return ticket being booked for longer than 6 months and in interrogation the officer interpreted I had intentions of working in the UK even though I didn’t.) I was advised if I wanted to return to the UK I would have to obtain a clearance visa.
When I got back to Lebanon I went straight to the UK embassy and discussed my case where they sent me to the immigration and visa department. I got all of the paperwork ready (letter of invitation from my boyfriend, copy of his passport, copy of his tenancy agreement where I would be staying, my new purchased ticket for the amount of exactly 20 days in March, and my own bank statement providing proof I could finance my trip) and I went to the immigration and visa department to apply for the clearance visa. When I was there, the head manager of the department approached me to see if I needed any assistance and when she noticed I was an American citizen, she automatically stated I didn’t need any visa whatsoever. I was in disbelief. I had to explain how I was detained and sent back and even showed her my home office document stating why I was refused into the country to make sure I didn’t need any clearance visa before traveling again; once again she assured me I would be fine to go with the paperwork that I had and have a safe trip.
I travelled again in March, scared but confident with all of my documents and the security of what I was advised in Lebanon that everything should be okay. However, once again, I was stopped at boarder control. I was detained, searched, interrogated, and sent back to Lebanon. (Reason of denial into UK was due to no clearance visa despite the fact I was told I didn’t need one also the  officer said my trip was to soon since last refusal which makes no sense to me since I had all the supporting documents and have never over stayed or violated any UK visa laws.)
My questions for everyone now are… My boyfriend and I are completely heartbroken and at a loss on what to do… His initial plan was to propose to me on my trip back in February and we were planning on having a ceremony around late spring here in Lebanon. 
Will our chances on getting a spousal visa most likely be refused because I’ve been denied entry twice to the UK? 
Also, should I contact the American embassy and explain everything that has happened to me because I think I’ve been treated unfairly, or will it just cause more trouble if I do want to apply for my spouse application?
And lastly, should I even apply at all…?
Any answers anyone can give me would be great feedback because I have no idea where to even begin processing my situation. Not only is this all new to me, but also very draining and an emotional rollercoaster. Thank you for your time.

Offline ksand24

  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 14605
  • Joined: Jan 2007
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Gender: Female
  • Liked: 489
Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 03:48:00 AM »
Hi, welcome to the forum :).

Sorry to hear about your refusals :(. It is not uncommon for this to happen and you are not alone in being in this situation. Essentially you were given a bit of bad advice from the UK embassy - you were told by U.K. immigration explicitly that you needed to apply for a visa before coming back to the UK again and they are the ones who decide whether or not you are allowed into the UK or not, not the embassy. If they told you that you need a visa, then you need a visa, regardless of what the embassy told you- they may have even put a note on your electronic passport record that you cannot come back without a visa.

Also, you can't just to go the UK Embassy to apply for a visitor visa anyway, since they don't process visa applications - you have to apply online and then follow online instructions for how to submit your biometrics and supporting documents at the Application Support Centre in Beirut (which is in a different location to the embassy).

Since you had been refused entry once, you should have applied for a visa before travelling again... this is what they advise on the UKVI website and it's what you were told to do by border control. Also, you probably should not have travelled back to the UK so soon after the first refusal, especially without applying for a visitor visa first, since the chances of you being refused entry again were very high.

I doubt contacting the US Embassy will help you since you weren't treated unfairly. UK border control were essentially correct to refuse you entry on both occasions because a) the first time you didn't meet the requirements to enter the UK as a genuine visitor (having a return ticket for more than 6 months was pretty much an automatic refusal anyway) and b) the second time you were given bad advice by the embassy (especially since you had been told to apply for a visa already - so the embassy should have given you information about how to apply for a visitor visa, not told you you didn't need one) and should not have attempted to enter the UK so soon after the first attempt without a visitor visa.

If anything, the only thing you have grounds to complain about is the bad advice you were given by the UK Embassy in Lebanon - so it might be worth a complaint to them for their advice causing another refusal, if only for your own piece of mind. Though since you were told by border control to apply for a visa, and you didn't, I'm not sure you'll have a leg to stand on.

The good news is though that your refused entries will not affect a spousal visa application. The only thing they may affect is the processing time of the visa because they may need extra time to look into the refused entries... but they won't be a reason for refusal.

So the best thing for you to do right now is not attempt to enter the UK again as a visitor, but to go ahead with your plans to marry and prepare to apply for a spousal visa.

Actually, thinking about it, since your boyfriend is European, if you get married, you will have the automatic right to live and work in the UK without a visa if you are married to an EEA citizen who is EEA exercising treaty rights in the U.K... in which case, once you are married, you could apply for a free of charge 6-month EEA Family Permit to move to the UK (then apply for a 5-year EEA Residence card once you are here).

In fact, you can only apply for a spousal visa if your boyfriend holds permanent residence in the UK. As he has been here for more than 5 years, I'm assuming he does, though he would need proof of it (a permanent residence card).

So you most likely have the option to either apply under the EEA route as the spouse of an EEA citizen, or for a spousal visa as the spouse of a UK permanent resident.

The spousal visa would would likely be the most secure route because we don't know what will happen with Brexit yet... however, you would need to budget for up to £10,000 in visa costs (to citizenship) over the next 5 years.

Alternatively, 5 years under the EEA route will cost you just £130 total (at current prices) in application fees (free family permit, £65 for 5-year residence card, £65 for permanent residence card).

Edited because I missed the first time that you were told by border control to apply for a visa before coming back, which changes the advice I gave you at first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 04:52:48 AM by ksand24 »

Offline jimbocz

  • *
  • Posts: 1408
  • Joined: Sep 2015
  • Liked: 232
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 11:02:54 AM »
I'll chime in to say that what happened to you sounds horrendous and you have my sympathy.  Good luck and I'd like to remind you that it is possible to marry across international borders and have a long and happy life.  It may not seem like it from your point of view right now, but I see it all around me in London. 

By the way, not to hijack your thread, but I heard a bit about a Syrian /Country band called Country for Syria.  I think they are based in Lebannon.  Heard of them?

Offline KFdancer

  • *
  • Posts: 6069
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Liked: 470
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 11:13:38 AM »
Any chance you are the fiancé referenced in this thread?

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=89848.0

Some good advice there - BUT it was thought that your fiancé (if it is you) was a UKC and not an EU citizen.  Him being an EU citizen actually makes things a bit simpler and definitely cheaper, but adds the uncertainty of the future due to Brexit.

Offline americangal2

  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Mar 2017
  • Liked: 0
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 09:21:25 PM »
Hi, welcome to the forum :).

Sorry to hear about your refusals :(. It is not uncommon for this to happen and you are not alone in being in this situation. Essentially you were given a bit of bad advice from the UK embassy - you were told by U.K. immigration explicitly that you needed to apply for a visa before coming back to the UK again and they are the ones who decide whether or not you are allowed into the UK or not, not the embassy. If they told you that you need a visa, then you need a visa, regardless of what the embassy told you- they may have even put a note on your electronic passport record that you cannot come back without a visa.

Also, you can't just to go the UK Embassy to apply for a visitor visa anyway, since they don't process visa applications - you have to apply online and then follow online instructions for how to submit your biometrics and supporting documents at the Application Support Centre in Beirut (which is in a different location to the embassy).

Since you had been refused entry once, you should have applied for a visa before travelling again... this is what they advise on the UKVI website and it's what you were told to do by border control. Also, you probably should not have travelled back to the UK so soon after the first refusal, especially without applying for a visitor visa first, since the chances of you being refused entry again were very high.

I doubt contacting the US Embassy will help you since you weren't treated unfairly. UK border control were essentially correct to refuse you entry on both occasions because a) the first time you didn't meet the requirements to enter the UK as a genuine visitor (having a return ticket for more than 6 months was pretty much an automatic refusal anyway) and b) the second time you were given bad advice by the embassy (especially since you had been told to apply for a visa already - so the embassy should have given you information about how to apply for a visitor visa, not told you you didn't need one) and should not have attempted to enter the UK so soon after the first attempt without a visitor visa.

If anything, the only thing you have grounds to complain about is the bad advice you were given by the UK Embassy in Lebanon - so it might be worth a complaint to them for their advice causing another refusal, if only for your own piece of mind. Though since you were told by border control to apply for a visa, and you didn't, I'm not sure you'll have a leg to stand on.

The good news is though that your refused entries will not affect a spousal visa application. The only thing they may affect is the processing time of the visa because they may need extra time to look into the refused entries... but they won't be a reason for refusal.

So the best thing for you to do right now is not attempt to enter the UK again as a visitor, but to go ahead with your plans to marry and prepare to apply for a spousal visa.

Actually, thinking about it, since your boyfriend is European, if you get married, you will have the automatic right to live and work in the UK without a visa if you are married to an EEA citizen who is EEA exercising treaty rights in the U.K... in which case, once you are married, you could apply for a free of charge 6-month EEA Family Permit to move to the UK (then apply for a 5-year EEA Residence card once you are here).

In fact, you can only apply for a spousal visa if your boyfriend holds permanent residence in the UK. As he has been here for more than 5 years, I'm assuming he does, though he would need proof of it (a permanent residence card).

So you most likely have the option to either apply under the EEA route as the spouse of an EEA citizen, or for a spousal visa as the spouse of a UK permanent resident.

The spousal visa would would likely be the most secure route because we don't know what will happen with Brexit yet... however, you would need to budget for up to £10,000 in visa costs (to citizenship) over the next 5 years.

Alternatively, 5 years under the EEA route will cost you just £130 total (at current prices) in application fees (free family permit, £65 for 5-year residence card, £65 for permanent residence card).

Edited because I missed the first time that you were told by border control to apply for a visa before coming back, which changes the advice I gave you at first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you very much for your reply, it opened my eyes to a lot. Yes, I do understand more now on behalf of the rules and regulations with respect to boarder control and the mistakes I made from my side. However, I would have never re-tried traveling without a clearance visa if I thought there was a possibility to be sent back again (which I was).
I guess I just felt somewhat betrayed to have been given false information at the uk immigration and visa department because I did try applying via online on a public computer system at the immigration department and this was when I was approached by the head manager who offered if I needed any assistance. At this time she noticed I was filling out my information and realized I was an American citizen and started saying how I did not need a clearance via etc. (even though I told her my whole case and even showed her my home office document why I was refused entry and all. She laughed and actually said applying for a clearance visa would be like throwing my money away especially since I wanted priority as well. I had to ask many times if she was sure, and she insisted.)
Oh well I guess there is no need now to cry over spilt milk  :( (even though the cost of my tickets went down the drain plus my heart aches still to not be able to see my love...)

Your advice on the spousal visa or EEA family permit is finally refreshing and good news. (hopefully we do have light at the end of our tunnel)
Obviously, we probably should get a lawyer though right? To help us take care of all documents and lower our risk of rejection to any spousal visa...
Do you also have any idea how long it may take to be accepted and when I would be able to move to the UK to officially be with my spouse? (obviously, after the wedding :))

Again, thank you dearly for your time and helpful information!

Offline americangal2

  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Mar 2017
  • Liked: 0
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 09:33:11 PM »
Any chance you are the fiancé referenced in this thread?

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=89848.0

Some good advice there - BUT it was thought that your fiancé (if it is you) was a UKC and not an EU citizen.  Him being an EU citizen actually makes things a bit simpler and definitely cheaper, but adds the uncertainty of the future due to Brexit.


Hello! thank you for your reply and taking time to read my case. Fortunately, no, the link you sent is not mine even though our cases seem rather similar. My heart goes out to anyone put in a situation where they are refused to be away from their loved ones.
Hopefully, being my case, or any other, sharing information on this site will help move forward and understand more about what possibilities we all have.

Offline ksand24

  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 14605
  • Joined: Jan 2007
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Gender: Female
  • Liked: 489
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 10:10:24 PM »
I guess I just felt somewhat betrayed to have been given false information at the uk immigration and visa department because I did try applying via online on a public computer system at the immigration department and this was when I was approached by the head manager who offered if I needed any assistance. At this time she noticed I was filling out my information and realized I was an American citizen and started saying how I did not need a clearance via etc. (even though I told her my whole case and even showed her my home office document why I was refused entry and all. She laughed and actually said applying for a clearance visa would be like throwing my money away especially since I wanted priority as well. I had to ask many times if she was sure, and she insisted.)
Oh well I guess there is no need now to cry over spilt milk  :( (even though the cost of my tickets went down the drain plus my heart aches still to not be able to see my love...)

I'm sorry you were given bad advice :(.

Unfortunately, the UK Embassy does not give visa advice and cannot help with visa queries or applications. They only offer services to British nationals in Lebanon, and therefore are unlikely to know the ins and outs of the visa rules. So the manager was out of line for even offering to help you with it and should have directed you to the UKVI webpages for visitor visa applications.

The website for the US Embassy in Beirut actually says they will not help with visa enquiries and tells you go to to the UKVI website:

Quote
Get a visa

The British embassy can’t help with visa enquiries.

If you’re not a British national, you may need a visa to travel to the UK. Check if you need a UK visa

Then, if you click on the 'Check if you need a UK visa' link and select USA as your nationality, it says:

Quote
You may want to apply for a visa if you have a criminal record or you’ve previously been refused entry into the UK.

But since the immigration officer at the airport told you you needed to apply for a visa to come back (meaning: they aren't going to let you in without one), that 'may want to' in your case is a 'you must'.

Quote
Obviously, we probably should get a lawyer though right? To help us take care of all documents and lower our risk of rejection to any spousal visa...
Do you also have any idea how long it may take to be accepted and when I would be able to move to the UK to officially be with my spouse? (obviously, after the wedding :))

It's up to you whether you use a lawyer. I don't personally recommend one unless you have a very serious case (i.e. you've done jail time, or you have worked or overstayed illegally in the UK).

Since your previous refusals should not affect the application anyway (since you were refused because they thought you were going to live in the UK, and now you will actually be applying to live in the UK), and we can give you all the help and advice you need in regards to documents required to get a visa approval, I'm not sure it's worth the money to get a lawyer.

I have been helping people here on the forum apply for spousal visas for 10 years - I answer the same questions every day, I know the visa requirements and documents required off by heart, and I've helped probably over 1,000 people successfully apply for their visas in that time.

Unfortunately, very few lawyers actually know what they are talking about and often give bad advice (just like you got from the embassy) - one person recently got refused a partner visa because their lawyer told them to apply for the wrong type of visa! They applied for a visa they didn't qualify for, and instead of their lawyer telling them this, and advising them to apply for the correct visa, they let them continue with the wrong application and they were refused the visa.

If you do decide to use a lawyer, we only recommend 2 lawyers here on the forum:
-Medivisas (particularly Victoria Sharkey), based in London
- Laura Devine, based in London and New York
However, they are expensive and will set you back a lot of money, when you can find all the information you need for free on the UKVI website and here on the forum.

One thing to consider as well is that processing times for spousal visa applications made in Beirut may well be much slower than in the US and it could take a lot longer to get a visa... so, depending on your finances and situation, you might want to consider flying back to the US and applying from there (you could also marry in the US easily if you decided to - he wouldn't need a visa to do it).

Currently, it appears that the majority of spousal visa applications made in the US are being processed within 2-5 working days (based on the timelines for people applying here on the forum in the last few weeks). It does take a bit longer if you have refused entries, but usually only a week or two more.

The UKVI website hasn't been updated with new processing times for a while though, and the most recent ones we have are from November 2016, which was a busier time, at least in the US:

Beirut, Lebanon processing times for settlement visas, November 2016: 
1% processed in 3 working days
1% in 5 working days    
18% in 10 working days    
32% in 15 working days    
83%    in 30 working days
93%    in 60 working days
96%    in 90 working days
96% in 120 working days

US processing times for settlement visas (processed in Sheffield, UK), November 2016: 
1% processed in 2 working days
10% in 3 working days    
17% in 5 working days    
53% in 10 working days    
73%    in 15 working days
96%    in 30 working days
98%    in 60 working days
100% in 90 working days

However, EEA Family Permits are processed more quickly in both countries - generally within about 10 working days.

Offline americangal2

  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Mar 2017
  • Liked: 0
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 11:37:37 PM »
I'm sorry you were given bad advice :(.

Unfortunately, the UK Embassy does not give visa advice and cannot help with visa queries or applications. They only offer services to British nationals in Lebanon, and therefore are unlikely to know the ins and outs of the visa rules. So the manager was out of line for even offering to help you with it and should have directed you to the UKVI webpages for visitor visa applications.

The website for the US Embassy in Beirut actually says they will not help with visa enquiries and tells you go to to the UKVI website:

Then, if you click on the 'Check if you need a UK visa' link and select USA as your nationality, it says:

But since the immigration officer at the airport told you you needed to apply for a visa to come back (meaning: they aren't going to let you in without one), that 'may want to' in your case is a 'you must'.

It's up to you whether you use a lawyer. I don't personally recommend one unless you have a very serious case (i.e. you've done jail time, or you have worked or overstayed illegally in the UK).

Since your previous refusals should not affect the application anyway (since you were refused because they thought you were going to live in the UK, and now you will actually be applying to live in the UK), and we can give you all the help and advice you need in regards to documents required to get a visa approval, I'm not sure it's worth the money to get a lawyer.

I have been helping people here on the forum apply for spousal visas for 10 years - I answer the same questions every day, I know the visa requirements and documents required off by heart, and I've helped probably over 1,000 people successfully apply for their visas in that time.

Unfortunately, very few lawyers actually know what they are talking about and often give bad advice (just like you got from the embassy) - one person recently got refused a partner visa because their lawyer told them to apply for the wrong type of visa! They applied for a visa they didn't qualify for, and instead of their lawyer telling them this, and advising them to apply for the correct visa, they let them continue with the wrong application and they were refused the visa.

If you do decide to use a lawyer, we only recommend 2 lawyers here on the forum:
-Medivisas (particularly Victoria Sharkey), based in London
- Laura Devine, based in London and New York
However, they are expensive and will set you back a lot of money, when you can find all the information you need for free on the UKVI website and here on the forum.

One thing to consider as well is that processing times for spousal visa applications made in Beirut may well be much slower than in the US and it could take a lot longer to get a visa... so, depending on your finances and situation, you might want to consider flying back to the US and applying from there (you could also marry in the US easily if you decided to - he wouldn't need a visa to do it).

Currently, it appears that the majority of spousal visa applications made in the US are being processed within 2-5 working days (based on the timelines for people applying here on the forum in the last few weeks). It does take a bit longer if you have refused entries, but usually only a week or two more.

The UKVI website hasn't been updated with new processing times for a while though, and the most recent ones we have are from November 2016, which was a busier time, at least in the US:

Beirut, Lebanon processing times for settlement visas, November 2016: 
1% processed in 3 working days
1% in 5 working days    
18% in 10 working days    
32% in 15 working days    
83%    in 30 working days
93%    in 60 working days
96%    in 90 working days
96% in 120 working days

US processing times for settlement visas (processed in Sheffield, UK), November 2016: 
1% processed in 2 working days
10% in 3 working days    
17% in 5 working days    
53% in 10 working days    
73%    in 15 working days
96%    in 30 working days
98%    in 60 working days
100% in 90 working days

However, EEA Family Permits are processed more quickly in both countries - generally within about 10 working days.


Wow! You have just put a smile on my face when really everything has seemed to be until now, never ending heartache. Thank you so much!
okay, I don't mind if we apply from Beirut being that a trip out to the US right now would be somewhat out of the question for both myself and partner and my residency is here. However I wouldn't mind paying for priority or simply waiting the time duration, if I was sure the outcome was to be able to spend the rest of my life with my loved one.

I also wanted to ask, do you think it will be an issue that my partner and I haven't spent much physical time together (every time I've tried to go be with him they would send me back :\\\'( :P) He is planning a trip to come out here now to see me, but unfortunately his work wont allow us the privilege of too many days together. After this trip, the next will be when our wedding will be taking place (around June)...

Again, I am very grateful for your help and will most likely need much more guidance with respect to applying since you're right, lawyers can be very expensive. I hope the fact that my partner being an EEA citizen will make things a little easier and also the fact that he has been living in the UK for more than 5 years help as well (he is applying to get his permanent residence card at the moment).

Thank you!!

Offline ksand24

  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 14605
  • Joined: Jan 2007
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Gender: Female
  • Liked: 489
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 07:05:25 AM »
okay, I don't mind if we apply from Beirut being that a trip out to the US right now would be somewhat out of the question for both myself and partner and my residency is here. However I wouldn't mind paying for priority or simply waiting the time duration, if I was sure the outcome was to be able to spend the rest of my life with my loved one.

Ah, fair enough :).

I'm not sure what priority options are available for applying in Beirut (if any) - each country has a different application process, so I'd have a read here to find out how it works in Lebanon:
https://uk.tlscontact.com/lb/bey/page.php?pid=procedure

Quote
also wanted to ask, do you think it will be an issue that my partner and I haven't spent much physical time together (every time I've tried to go be with him they would send me back :\\\'( :P) He is planning a trip to come out here now to see me, but unfortunately his work wont allow us the privilege of too many days together. After this trip, the next will be when our wedding will be taking place (around June)...

No, it's not an issue - you just need to show you have met at least once in person (a photo) and that you are in regular communication while apart, by way of phone call/email/message logs.

Quote
I hope the fact that my partner being an EEA citizen will make things a little easier and also the fact that he has been living in the UK for more than 5 years help as well (he is applying to get his permanent residence card at the moment).

As he is an EEA citizen, it makes things very easy for you, because you don't even need to qualify for a visa to move to the UK - simply being married to him means you can live and work in the UK without a visa. You just need to apply for a free of charge EEA Family Permit to show your right to live and work in the UK, then switch it to a 5-year residence card after you arrive. Easy peasy.

Him having permanent residence also gives you other options - it means you have the choice to apply for a spousal visa instead... a choice most people don't have, which could be useful in regards to Brexit.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline americangal2

  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Mar 2017
  • Liked: 0
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2017, 01:50:02 PM »
Ah, fair enough :).

I'm not sure what priority options are available for applying in Beirut (if any) - each country has a different application process, so I'd have a read here to find out how it works in Lebanon:
https://uk.tlscontact.com/lb/bey/page.php?pid=procedure

No, it's not an issue - you just need to show you have met at least once in person (a photo) and that you are in regular communication while apart, by way of phone call/email/message logs.

As he is an EEA citizen, it makes things very easy for you, because you don't even need to qualify for a visa to move to the UK - simply being married to him means you can live and work in the UK without a visa. You just need to apply for a free of charge EEA Family Permit to show your right to live and work in the UK, then switch it to a 5-year residence card after you arrive. Easy peasy.

Him having permanent residence also gives you other options - it means you have the choice to apply for a spousal visa instead... a choice most people don't have, which could be useful in regards to Brexit.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perfect! I will do some more research on regards to applying for an EEA family permit which I guess would be the easiest and right way to go about this, in your opinion, would there be any reasons for denial?

I then would apply for a spouse visa after arriving to the UK and already settling and starting an actual life with my partner to make things easier when Brexit takes place...

Also, do you have any idea which embassy I would submit my application for the EEA family permit, would it be the UK immigration and visa department in downtown Beirut (I hope not with my past experience with them) or would it be in the European embassy that he's from?

Thank you! Have a lovely day!

Offline ksand24

  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 14605
  • Joined: Jan 2007
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Gender: Female
  • Liked: 489
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2017, 02:08:03 PM »
Perfect! I will do some more research on regards to applying for an EEA family permit which I guess would be the easiest and right way to go about this, in your opinion, would there be any reasons for denial?

Due to EEA laws, once you are married you will already have the right to live in the UK, even without the permit - the permit is just confirmation of that right so that you are let into the UK under EEA rules and not visitor visa rules.

The only reasons they can refuse you are if:
A) you're not married and you also don't qualify as unmarried partners
Or
B) your spouse is not exercising treaty rights in the UK... however once he has his permanent residence card, he doesn't need to show this anyway.

Quote
then would apply for a spouse visa after arriving to the UK and already settling and starting an actual life with my partner to make things easier when Brexit takes place...

You can do that, although it might be worth waiting to see what happens with Brexit - no point in wasting thousands of pounds on spousal visas when it might turn out you could have stayed on EEA rules for a tiny fraction of the cost.

[quoteAlso, do you have any idea which embassy I would submit my application for the EEA family permit, would it be the UK immigration and visa department in downtown Beirut (I hope not with my past experience with them) or would it be in the European embassy that he's from?
[/quote]

You have to go to the assigned ASC (Application Support Centre) in Beirut for UK visa applications - the address will be on the link I posted above.

That will be the last stage of the application process though.

First, you will need to:
- research the family permit requirements
- gather your supporting documents
- get married
- complete the online application
- submit the online application
- book an appointment with the ASC to give biometrics and submit your application
- wait for the application to be processed



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Sirius

  • *
  • Posts: 1386
  • Joined: Sep 2014
  • Liked: 85
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 11:36:46 AM »
Him having permanent residence also gives you other options - it means you have the choice to apply for a spousal visa instead... a choice most people don't have, which could be useful in regards to Brexit.

PR is EU rules and is nothing to do with UK immigration rules. The two don't mix (unless they use the 10 years of legal stay to ILR route). Those on ILR would use the spouse visa to sponsor, but an EU citizen doesn't get ILR, they get PR. Those on PR can only use EU laws. UK immigration laws and EU treaty rights of free movement, are two different beasts. i.e. someone deported because they are a danger to the UK public, are allowed to return and live in the UK under EU laws but will never be grated British citizenship under UK laws.

With PR being EU laws, on a Breixt, even those with PR will no longer have an automatic right to reside in the UK as EU laws will end. This is why so many people are going for British citizenship, to secure their right to live in the UK.

Even then the EEA citizen has to juggle this because once the EEA citizen becomes British then all their non-EEA citizen Family Members in the UK will no longer have a right to be in the UK as they have lost their EEA sponsor. While any of their EEA citizen family members will have to exercise treaty rights themselves to be allowed to reside in the UK lawfully.

It's either,
Become British and use the safer UK immigration rules, spouse "visa". If the non-EEA citizen family member spouse changes to this route, then they are having to go home to apply beacause under UK immigration rules they have no right to switch in country, to this "visa" as they don't have "limited leave to remain" (UK immigration laws).  Any time they have already spent in the UK on the EEA family member route will not be used to make their 5 years to ILR (unless they meet the 10 years of legal stay to ILR) as UK laws and EU are two different roads to citizenship.

OR

Enter as a spouse (direct family member) of an EEA citizen (who is not a British citizen too). As long as their EEA sponsor doesn't become a British citizen, then they can contiue to use EU free movement in the UK until a Brexit. However,  it will take at least 5 years under EU laws to be able to apply for British ciitizenship and it is unlikely there will be that long of EU laws under a Brexit. These will have to wait until Merkel states their future can be discussed i.e.  if they can stay on a Brexit and on what terms that will be (access to any free healthcare and to any benefits).

Just think of UK immigration rules and EU rules as being two different roads to Brirish citizenship.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 12:23:02 PM by Sirius »

Offline Sirius

  • *
  • Posts: 1386
  • Joined: Sep 2014
  • Liked: 85
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 01:14:17 PM »
Due to EEA laws, once you are married you will already have the right to live in the UK, even without the permit - the permit is just confirmation of that right so that you are let into the UK under EEA rules and not visitor visa rules.

The only reasons they can refuse you are if:
A) you're not married and you also don't qualify as unmarried partners

Under EU law, unmarried partners have no automatic right to reside in another EEA country. In fact most EEA countries will not allow an unmarried partner of an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights in their country.

The UK might allow these unmarried partners, but only as an Extended Family Member and not as a Direct Family Member. Under EU law, Extended Familly Members have no automatic right to reside in an EEA country as it is up to the member state to deicde if they will allow these. Therefore EFMs they have no right to an appeal if they are refused, as confirmed in the Sala ruling. That is why this 'no right of appeal' for EFMs was then written into the UK EEA Reg changes last November.

If the EEA citizen ceases to be a qualified person at any time, then they and all their family members no longer have a right to reside in that member state and any RCs become invalid, regardless of the end date on the RC.


Or
B) your spouse is not exercising treaty rights in the UK... however once he has his permanent residence card, he doesn't need to show this anyway.

An EEA citizen obtains PR in an EEA country automically if they have been a qualified person continuously for 5 years. The Permanent Residence Card is for non-EEA citizens and for EEA citizens it's a DCPR, but these merely confirm they have achieved PR automatically and are not a requirement under EU law.

However the DCPR or PRC is a requirement for any British citizenship application, because EU laws end at PR.
 






« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 01:24:59 PM by Sirius »

Offline americangal2

  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Mar 2017
  • Liked: 0
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 02:03:42 PM »
PR is EU rules and is nothing to do with UK immigration rules. The two don't mix (unless they use the 10 years of legal stay to ILR route). Those on ILR would use the spouse visa to sponsor, but an EU citizen doesn't get ILR, they get PR. Those on PR can only use EU laws. UK immigration laws and EU treaty rights of free movement, are two different beasts. i.e. someone deported because they are a danger to the UK public, are allowed to return and live in the UK under EU laws but will never be grated British citizenship under UK laws.

With PR being EU laws, on a Breixt, even those with PR will no longer have an automatic right to reside in the UK as EU laws will end. This is why so many people are going for British citizenship, to secure their right to live in the UK.

Even then the EEA citizen has to juggle this because once the EEA citizen becomes British then all their non-EEA citizen Family Members in the UK will no longer have a right to be in the UK as they have lost their EEA sponsor. While any of their EEA citizen family members will have to exercise treaty rights themselves to be allowed to reside in the UK lawfully.

It's either,
Become British and use the safer UK immigration rules, spouse "visa". If the non-EEA citizen family member spouse changes to this route, then they are having to go home to apply beacause under UK immigration rules they have no right to switch in country, to this "visa" as they don't have "limited leave to remain" (UK immigration laws).  Any time they have already spent in the UK on the EEA family member route will not be used to make their 5 years to ILR (unless they meet the 10 years of legal stay to ILR) as UK laws and EU are two different roads to citizenship.

OR

Enter as a spouse (direct family member) of an EEA citizen (who is not a British citizen too). As long as their EEA sponsor doesn't become a British citizen, then they can contiue to use EU free movement in the UK until a Brexit. However,  it will take at least 5 years under EU laws to be able to apply for British ciitizenship and it is unlikely there will be that long of EU laws under a Brexit. These will have to wait until Merkel states their future can be discussed i.e.  if they can stay on a Brexit and on what terms that will be (access to any free healthcare and to any benefits).

Just think of UK immigration rules and EU rules as being two different roads to Brirish citizenship.

Hi, thank you for your feedback! My partner is an EU citizen that has been working legally and living in the UK for over 5 years now. He is applying for his permanent residence card at the moment but there is an extremely high demand currently being that everyone wants to get theirs done before Brexit takes place. (I'm not sure what this means exactly for us.) After we get married, I suppose after much research applying for an EEA direct family member permit would be my best way to be able to reside with him in the UK, and then apply for the 5 year residency visa (once there/within that 6 month time period), correct?

Also, I have been reading many cases of where legitimate (married and even some pregnant) couples have been refused even after providing much evidence of their relationship. (Reason of refusal mostly that officers think their relationship is not genuine) This worries me, especially with my case being I've been refused entry into the UK twice now. Is this going to cause me problems? I will add in my documents personal letters from both myself and partner of how we met and our story and my unfortunate events that took place when traveling to the UK...Any advice on this matter?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 02:47:39 PM by americangal2 »

Offline Sirius

  • *
  • Posts: 1386
  • Joined: Sep 2014
  • Liked: 85
Re: Help, refused entry into UK.
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2017, 03:53:03 PM »
Hi, thank you for your feedback! My partner is an EU citizen that has been working legally and living in the UK for over 5 years now. He is applying for his permanent residence card at the moment but there is an extremely high demand currently being that everyone wants to get theirs done before Brexit takes place. (I'm not sure what this means exactly for us.) 

It shouild be a DCPR that he is applying for-
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-a-document-certifying-permanent-residence-or-permanent-residence-card-form-eea-pr

Yes, there has been a huge demand since the leave vote in June last year, as they need to have these as one of the requirements to apply for British citizenship. Many now going for citizenship before a Brexit.

After we get married, I suppose after much research applying for an EEA direct family member permit would be my best way to be able to reside with him in the UK, and then apply for the 5 year residency visa (once there/within that 6 month time period), correct?

Yes. Except it is unlikey you will get 5 years to PR in the UK in the normal way under EU laws as EU laws would end on a Breixt. You would need at least 5 years of EU rules in the UK when you arrive to reach PR. Even PR is EU law. Untill Merkel allows these talks on what happens to the 4.2 million migrants and counting in the UK and the 1.2 Britis in other EEA countries, nobody will know what will happen to these. 

The thing to be careful of is him being granted British citizenship, because then you have lost your EEA sponsor and can no longer use EU laws to live in the UK. But I can see why he would want British citizenship as soon as he can, as this will secure his stay in the UK regardless of what happens on a Brexit. It's going to be a case of timing. He could always sponsor you under UK immigration laws on a spouse visa, once he is a British citizen.


Also, I have been reading many cases of where legitimate (married and even some pregnant) couples have been refused even after providing much evidence of their relationship. (Reason of refusal mostly that officers think their relationship is not genuine) This worries me, especially with my case being I've been refused entry into the UK twice now. Is this going to cause me problems?

EU rules are very lax and you are allowed to live in the UK under EU rules even if you had commited a serious crime, were jailed for years, been deported and banned from the UK! The only thing that would affect that would be citizenship:  and a Brexit of course as EU laws will end in the UK and PR is EU law too. Under EU laws, if you are married to an EEA citizen who is exercising treaty rights in the UK as a qualified person, then you have an automatic right to reside in the UK with them.

They have tighened up the rules on a sham marriage because of some weird EU court ruling/s that has made it easy for this to be abused, but it won't affect a genuine marriage. Often what people say and what the refusal notice says, is two different things. ;)

Using UK immigration rules for a spouse visa (if your boyfriend becomes a British citizen) is what ksand has already told you. She is the expert on these family visas imho, with other ladies on here knowing a lot about these too.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 04:00:51 PM by Sirius »