Author Topic: Interesting...  (Read 541 times)

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Offline KFdancer

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Interesting...
« on: March 07, 2017, 11:10:02 AM »
I had a hospital appointment this morning to receive an injection due to having a negative blood type (pregnant).  At my last midwife appointment, my midwife said she needed to run some blood work to get my blood group type.  I said, "I'm A negative if that helps."  She said she was required to rerun the blood work at that appointment.  I thought it was weird and joked to my husband afterwards that I guess blood types change and that I felt it was a waste of NHS resources to keep retesting.

Today at the hospital, the nurse said she needed to find the results of the blood group before she could give the injection.  I asked why the bloods were repeated and joked if blood types could change.  She then said something I didn't expect.  She said blood types don't change but the person sitting in the chair could!

She explained that the reason they run the tests is because illegal immigrants will use someone else's NHS number to receive treatment and they need to know who it is they are treating.  So "yes" blood types can change as it could be someone using another person's identity sitting in the chair for the injection.  MIND BLOWN.  Obviously I'm not naïve enough to think this type of thing doesn't happen.  I guess I just didn't realise how common this could be!

Offline jimbocz

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 11:33:16 AM »
That sounds surprising to me as well.  I was under the impression that if you show up pregnant and present to the NHS, you are going to get treated .  They might make token efforts to charge you something but it's pretty weak effort.  I don't even mind, who wants a pregnant woman to not get care? 

In that case , why would you impersonate someone?

Offline KFdancer

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 11:38:56 AM »
She was saying that if someone is in the UK illegally, they may use a family (or friend's) identity so that they have an NHS number to receive free treatment.

I guess I'm surprised - because like you - I figure they basically treat everyone regardless.  I know that has been one of the big debates about charging, is that it isn't the NHS's responsibility to "police" who is allowed and not allowed to use the NHS without cost at the point of service.

Seems kind of crazy that it's a big enough problem that they repeat blood work throughout a pregnancy though!

Offline nctami72

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 02:10:15 AM »
My fiance had to have minor surgery. I asked him if he needed to take proof of identity to the surgery with him and he said "No. I have my appointment letter."

I found that really difficult to believe because in the US you need an ID for almost everything and definitely for receiving medical care.

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Offline sonofasailor

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 07:46:14 AM »
Seems kind of crazy that it's a big enough problem that they repeat blood work throughout a pregnancy though!

Typical Tory ploy to punish pregnant women. Always the vulnerable.
Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across - Sun Tzu

Offline KFdancer

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 08:53:50 AM »
Typical Tory ploy to punish pregnant women. Always the vulnerable.

I had a whole big conversation about this with my husband the other night.  I genuinely do not think they would deny services.  I really don't.  Maybe I'm being naïve?  I feel like the tests are repeated simply so they know whoever is sitting across from them is getting the correct treatment.  I really cannot imagine the midwife/nurse administering the injection to me would be required to confront me if something seemed amiss.

nctami72, that's one thing that's hard to get used to when you move to the UK.  You are not required to carry ID on you, so nearly everything is done with "proof of post" which is very hard to wrap your head around! 

Offline sonofasailor

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 09:48:50 AM »
I genuinely do not think they would deny services.

Perhaps not.

But here is a report from Oxford linking 30,000 excess deaths in 2015, to cuts in health and social care:

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-02-20-30000-excess-deaths-2015-linked-cuts-health-and-social-care

Your raised issue and those in the report are different (though perhaps connected), but it shows the Conservative Party is perhaps willing to sacrifice life to achieve their goals. 
Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across - Sun Tzu

Offline jimbocz

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 10:55:21 AM »


nctami72, that's one thing that's hard to get used to when you move to the UK.  You are not required to carry ID on you, so nearly everything is done with "proof of post" which is very hard to wrap your head around!

This is one thing that drives me crazy!  The British are so insistent that you don't have to carry ID, so they have all these unofficial, stupid ways of establishing ID, like a letter from your power company.  Even worse is a credit card!   Hello?  A credit card is not ID! 

I can't remember ever being asked to show ID at the NHS, but they always make you confirm everything many times over just to be sure they aren't confusing you with someone who wants a vasectomy.

Offline sonofasailor

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 11:30:29 AM »
just to be sure they aren't confusing you with someone who wants a vasectomy.

Well there can be a vas deferens between procedures...
Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across - Sun Tzu

Offline jimbocz

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 11:44:36 AM »
Ouch! 

Did you hear about the guy who invented knock knock jokes?  They gave him a Nobel  Prize.

Offline Sirius

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 06:08:40 PM »

I guess I'm surprised - because like you - I figure they basically treat everyone regardless.  I know that has been one of the big debates about charging, is that it isn't the NHS's responsibility to "police" who is allowed and not allowed to use the NHS without cost at the point of service.

NHS staff will report to UKVI if they find someone trying to defraud their Trust. What made you think they didn't? Sometimes the person using that NHS number won't match the medical history of the person who really has that number and the NHS staff are the ones that spot that.

NHS staff can also phone UKVI if they are not sure about that persons status. UVKI use a banner system on the NHS SPINE system, red banner to bill and green banner not to bill. The NHS Trusts also report details to UKVI of a patient with  any total debt of £500+ if it is not paid within 2 months, etc.

Government departments will share infomation they hold and carry out sweeps for each other.  Sharing information they hold on people with UKVI, is no different to sharing with any other government department.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 06:41:20 PM by Sirius »

Offline KFdancer

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 07:05:26 PM »
NHS staff will report to UKVI if they find someone trying to defraud their Trust. What made you think they didn't? Sometimes the person using that NHS number won't match the medical history of the person who really has that number and the NHS staff are the ones that spot that.

NHS staff can also phone UKVI if they are not sure about that persons status. UVKI use a banner system on the NHS SPINE system, red banner to bill and green banner not to bill. The NHS Trusts also report details to UKVI of a patient with  any total debt of £500+ if it is not paid within 2 months, etc.

Government departments will share infomation they hold and carry out sweeps for each other.  Sharing information they hold on people with UKVI, is no different to sharing with any other government department.

I feel like they would be reported and investigated, but still treated.  Does that make sense?  I just genuinely don't think the sweet woman in her 50's or 60's pulling my details up on the computer would have been the one to confront me if something was amiss.

I have no basis.  Just speculation. 

Offline Sirius

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 07:21:51 PM »
I feel like they would be reported and investigated, but still treated. 

Pregant women are treated.

I don't think getting the cost of the NHS treatment from a pregant illegal/visitor, is top of the UK's list. UKVI's job is to remove these people/prevent them from returning. It is the job of the NHS Trust to try to recover the debt.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 07:33:09 PM by Sirius »

Offline jimbocz

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2017, 11:54:33 AM »
I'm basing a lot of my thoughts on a TV show I saw a few months back about health tourism.  One case was a Nigerian woman who was flying to the US to give birth to her triplets.  The US turned her away and she ended up giving birth as an emergency in the NHS.  The kids needed ICU and the total bill was several hundred thousand pounds.  There was a guy from the NHS who half heartedly tried to get her to pay but her English got noticeably worse whenever he tried to talk to her.   I don't think she ever paid anything. 

Somebody in Nigeria had some money because she had IVF there. It seemed to me that more could have been done to enforce that debt by finding the person with the money and making them pay.  At the very least, they could have sold that debt to a Nigerian company and let them collect. 

Still, that kind of thing is pocket change compared to the entire budget and not a valid basis to justify judge other people.

Offline Sirius

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Re: Interesting...
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2017, 12:31:08 PM »
I'm basing a lot of my thoughts on a TV show I saw a few months back about health tourism.  One case was a Nigerian woman who was flying to the US to give birth to her triplets.  The US turned her away and she ended up giving birth as an emergency in the NHS.  The kids needed ICU and the total bill was several hundred thousand pounds.  There was a guy from the NHS who half heartedly tried to get her to pay but her English got noticeably worse whenever he tried to talk to her.   I don't think she ever paid anything. 

Somebody in Nigeria had some money because she had IVF there. It seemed to me that more could have been done to enforce that debt by finding the person with the money and making them pay.  At the very least, they could have sold that debt to a Nigerian company and let them collect. 

Still, that kind of thing is pocket change compared to the entire budget and not a valid basis to justify judge other people.

She was pregnant with 4 babies, not 3. She went into labour on the plane out of the US after she was refused entry for not being able to pay for medical care. Two babies died.

Tragically, one of her babies died immediately, while another, named Deborah, died a few days later.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/01/nigerian-mum-who-gave-birth-to-ivf-quadruplets-on-the-nhs-cant-pay-back-the-500000-6419560/
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 12:45:38 PM by Sirius »