Marriage Visitor Visa refused

Hi,

I am a newbie as you can tell and during my search found this excellent forum. Hope ksand24 can guide us when she has few mins. Thank you for your help in advance...

Quick brief on our situation:

Myself: UK citizen (self-employed)
My partner: Ukrainian living in germany on Au-pair visa.

We had applied for Marriage visit visa a month ago and got refused - due our own mistakes!

a) She couldnt show enough ties to Ukraine as she lives in germany and her german visa is expiring march end. (She had left her Au-pair job because we thought she will get the visa and come and stay in the UK until we decide our next steps)
b) She showed she may spend about £800 for her trip to the UK and rest would be sponsored by me. And she had only £790 to show in her bank after the currency exchange (silly us - didnt calculate it well)
c) The embassy guy didnt find the email correspondence we had attached for our appointment at the registry office for notice of marriage.

We had applied for a marriage visit visa as we were not sure whether we want to settle down in the UK or move abroad. So we thought she will spend 5 months in the UK and then go back during which time we would have planned our next step of where to live. So we wrote in our application that she will go back to Ukraine.

We had not booked any flights as the website says it's not required.

Our concerns now that the visa is refused:

If we decide to live in the UK-
1) Would it be a sensible option to apply for MVV if we decide to settle in the UK?
2) Would it be sensible to marry somewhere else and then just apply for spouse visa?

If we decide to move out of the UK:
3) Honestly, we are still not sure whether we want to live in the UK as i have been applying right, left & centre for jobs abroad and as soon something works out i would prefer to move.

End of the day all we want is to be together but it looks difficult because of our own circumstances and mistakes until now.

Any guidance will be very much appreciated.

Any questions, please ask....

R

I'm not ksand, but I'm sure she'll be along shortly.

Sorry to hear about your refusal.

I think the main reason is that she couldn't prove she was going to be visiting the UK for the purpose of marriage and as you aren't sure where you want to settle after the wedding, the marriage visitor visa wasn't the right application.

Do you meet the requirements to sponsor her for either a fiancé visa or spousal visa?  (same financial requirement)  If so, probably best to go that route until you decide what you want to do long term.

Thank you very much KFdancer for the reply, much appreciate it.

I believe i meet the requirements in terms of financial sponsor but i live in a rented house with the owner of the house. So do not have much things in my name to prove my connection with the property.

Have savings over £18K in the Cash ISA account to show and can move money to current accounts if required.

Not sure if it affects negatively but i am self-employed so dont have payslips to show but can show the finances via company or personal bank statements & savings...

Any other requirements for being a sponsor that you think we would need to look at?

To sponsor your fiancé, you need to show annual earnings of a minimum of £18,600.  This is tricky for self-employed as it's a very defined time frame of evidence.  Currently, you could use your earnings from April 6, 2015 until April 5, 2016.  If your income BEFORE tax but AFTER expenses exceeds £18,600, you can sponsor your fiancé.  With the financial year coming to an end in a few more weeks, that will soon open the next window of earnings from April 6, 2016 until April 5, 2017.

The other option is cash savings of £62,500.

Not owning the property isn't an issue.  You would just need a letter from the homeowner stating that you and your fiancé are allowed to live there.  It's not too complicated.

Thank you KFdancer,

So to understand correctly:

If we decide to live in the UK after marriage, we would be better off applying for Spouse visa directly? Then get the marriage out of the way and continue her stay in the UK... We didnt realise that was possible.

If we decide to live out of the UK after marriage: we would need to reapply for marriage visitor visa and show more ties to her own country ukraine or germany that she will go back and our plans of settling down after marriage?

If you want to remain in the UK, either the fiancé or spouse visa would be the appropriate path.  The marriage visitor visa is designed for people who do NOT want to settle in the UK after marriage.  To obtain a marriage visitor visa, your fiancé will need to demonstrate:

A life to return to outside of the UK (in either Ukraine or Germany).  This is usually done through a job that she must return to (with a letter from her employer), evidence of a home that she will be maintaining while in the UK (lease or mortgage information), sufficient funds to support her stay in the UK, evidence of plans to marry, and a plan for where you two plan to settle after your marriage.

Applying for a spouse visa directly avoids the cost of switching to the fiancé visa after marriage, so does save some money.  But you'd be okay to apply for the fiancé visa, even after her refusal, if that is what you two prefer.

Thank you very much KFdancer,

That's very helpful. I will go back to read some info on the spouse & fiance visa as it appears...

Will get back on here tomorrow to update more. Have a great afternoon

US citizen here so things are a bit different, but my (brand new!) UK citizen wife and I will soon be applying for the spouse visa.

My wife is also self-employed, which means a lot of paperwork to prove financial support. One thing that was difficult for us was having paper bank statements for the past 12 months to prove her income. Someone else here will give you more specifics, but you have to calculate income correctly by only using profits (I think).

The fiancee visa and spouse visa require the same financial statements and paperwork, and they cost almost the same. The differences:

Fiancee visa means your fiancee will not be able to do paid or volunteer work while in the UK, and she needs to have her own health insurance. It will only last 6 months, and I believe you have to prove that you have made arrangements to get married (booking a venue, etc.)

Spouse visa allows your new wife to get NHS benefits and permission to work/volunteer right away. It will last for 33 months.

But I'm not sure what happens if you then leave the country (if you get a job out of the country).

Hope you find something that works out for you. Good luck!

Hi KFdancer,

Thank you for your suggestions, i have now looked at some more info about the financial requirements around the Spouse Visa and getting ready to prepare for it.

Had a couple of basic questions to start with when you have a spare few mins to answer:

a) From the long document around Financial requirement, i believe i will have to be a sponsor in the Cat F or G. Assume the requirements are same for both except the need to show 2 years of finances in comparison to 1 in F?

b) Does my fiance need to show any sort of documents about her current work situation or income if i am her sponsor?

c) We are also looking at an option to marry abroad say in Thailand and then apply for Spouse Visa, would that make it any easier or different than just applying Spouse visa without marriage?

I may have more questions over the next couple of weeks as i am getting ready to prepare the documentation, hope it will be OK to ask in here? Or you can point me to a list of documents around Cat F / G that i can use to start the preparation.

Thank you very much in advance,

To sponsor your fiancé, you need to show annual earnings of a minimum of £18,600.  This is tricky for self-employed as it's a very defined time frame of evidence.  Currently, you could use your earnings from April 6, 2015 until April 5, 2016.  If your income BEFORE tax but AFTER expenses exceeds £18,600, you can sponsor your fiancé.  With the financial year coming to an end in a few more weeks, that will soon open the next window of earnings from April 6, 2016 until April 5, 2017.

The other option is cash savings of £62,500.

Not owning the property isn't an issue.  You would just need a letter from the homeowner stating that you and your fiancé are allowed to live there.  It's not too complicated.

a) yes, that's correct. Although, be aware that Categories F and G are very tricky to get right and there are many documents that are required for it. You'll need to make sure you get it exactly right because if even one document is missing or in the wrong format, the visa will be refused. Someone was recently refused because they applied just 1 day before their company's financial year ended.

b) no, the US applicant does not need to provide any income evidence as it cannot be considered

c) you have to get married before you apply for a spousal visa. That's the whole point of a spousal visa - you have to be already married before you apply. You can marry anywhere as long as it's legal and recognised, and if the certificate a foreign language, it must be translated into English.

Feel free to ask any questions and post a list of your documents as you gather them.

The full list of documents required for Cat F and G can be found here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525708/Appendix_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement.pdf

And here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence


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Thank you very much Ksand24 for your quick response, much appreciate it.

a) Thank you for advising on that - one of the key reasons i thought to ask on here... I will collate the document list and come back to list it here for advice...

b) Sorry i missed on mentioning that she is non-EU - Ukrainian living in Germany currently

c) Thank you for clarification on it, is Fiance Visa the route then for us if we plan to marry in the UK?

Cheers,

a) yes, that's correct. Although, be aware that Categories F and G are very tricky to get right and there are many documents that are required for it. You'll need to make sure you get it exactly right because if even one document is missing or in the wrong format, the visa will be refused. Someone was recently refused because they applied just 1 day before their company's financial year ended.

b) no, the US applicant does not need to provide any income evidence as it cannot be considered

c) you have to get married before you apply for a spousal visa. That's the whole point of a spousal visa - you have to be already married before you apply. You can marry anywhere as long as it's legal and recognised, and if the certificate a foreign language, it must be translated into English.

Feel free to ask any questions and post a list of your documents as you gather them.

The full list of documents required for Cat F and G can be found here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525708/Appendix_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement.pdf [nofollow]

And here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence [nofollow]


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For b) it doesn't matter where she lives - if she does not have the right to work in the UK, her income cannot be considered and she does not need to send anything in regards to her employment.

c) it depends - if you wish to marry in the UK, then you either need the fiancé visa or the marriage visitor visa. If you're willing to marry in another country - whether that be the US, Germany, Ukraine, Thailand... wherever, you can marry in that country and then apply directly for a spousal visa from the US.

Marrying in the UK means an extra visa to apply for (fiancé visa), plus she cannot work, study or use the NHS until after the wedding and she has her next visa.

Marrying in any other country means saving the cost of the fiancé visa and she can work, study and use the NHS immediately when she arrives.


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Thank you again Ksand24 for the clarification... it's very helpful.

Her marriage visitor visa was refused last time due to our situation not sure whether we will settle down in UK or abroad and she didnt provide enough documentation to prove her finances as the embassy thought that there were not enough reasons for her to go back...

I suspect it will be better in that case for us to marry abroad and then apply for Spouse visa.

I assume fiance visa is different to Marriage visitor visa, i couldnt find a reference to the list of documents for Fiance visa on the gov.uk website. When you have a few spare moments would you be able to point me to the link for it please?

Thank you very much again and it's been really helpful in clarifying some of the doubts we had...

Is it this one? - https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk [nofollow]

Will there be another cost to extend the visa after marriage... would you have any details on the cost of the extension?

For b) it doesn't matter where she lives - if she does not have the right to work in the UK, her income cannot be considered and she does not need to send anything in regards to her employment.

c) it depends - if you wish to marry in the UK, then you either need the fiancé visa or the marriage visitor visa. If you're willing to marry in another country - whether that be the US, Germany, Ukraine, Thailand... wherever, you can marry in that country and then apply directly for a spousal visa from the US.

Marrying in the UK means an extra visa to apply for (fiancé visa), plus she cannot work, study or use the NHS until after the wedding and she has her next visa.

Marrying in any other country means saving the cost of the fiancé visa and she can work, study and use the NHS immediately when she arrives.


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Yes, if you want to get married in the UK you should apply for a fiance visa.

The rules are very strict, though, (for example, she can't leave and re-enter the UK after she gets married but is still on the fiance visa), so please check out all of the requirements before applying.

You will then have to apply for another visa after 6 months, but she can stay in the UK while you apply.

My wife and I applied under category F, too. It's extremely complicated. I can't promise she will know the answers to everything, but I can ask if you have questions about category F. The most important thing is to get paper copies of everything.

Good luck!


Just saw your update: Yes, it would be less complicated to get married in a different country and then apply for the spousal visa. If you look back to the response I posted last month, you'll see that I mentioned the same information.

The fiancé visa documents are exactly the same as for the spousal visa - except that instead of proving you are already married, you provide evidence of your wedding plans.

It really is cheaper and easier to marry abroad and apply for a spousal visa.

The visa routes, with current prices:

Marry in the UK
- fiancé visa, valid 6 months, no work allowed, no free NHS access. Cost: £1,464
- FLR(M) visa, valid 30 months, work allowed, free NHS access. Cost: £993 + £500 NHS surcharge
- second FLR(M) visa, valid 30 months, work allowed, free NHS access. Cost: £993 + £500 NHS surcharge
- ILR after 5 years on FLR(M). Cost: £2,297

Total number of visas = 4
Total visa cost (current fees) = £6,747 plus any priority processing fees

Marry abroad
- spousal visa, valid 33 months, work allowed, free NHS access. Cost: £1,464 + £600 NHS surcharge
- FLR(M) visa, valid 30 months, work allowed, free NHS access. Cost: £993 + £500 NHS surcharge
- ILR after 5 years on FLR(M). Cost: £2,297

Total number of visas = 3
Total visa cost (current fees) = £5,283 plus any priority processing fees


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