Author Topic: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university  (Read 690 times)

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Offline farmgirl

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EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« on: March 18, 2017, 12:42:02 AM »
We're an American family; my husband has dual citizenship (American/Irish) through ancestry.  We're in the process of applying for EEA Family Permits so we can relocate to the UK in August.  My daughter will be attending Colchester Sixth Form College next year, in the IB diploma programme.  It is her dream to attend university in the UK, if possible.

I would love to learn more about what options may be available to her as an American legally residing in the UK (she'd have two years residing in the UK when she finishes up the IB diploma).  In particular, could she (we) access FAFSA to pay for tuition at a UK university?  If she took a gap year after finishing up the IB diploma, would that 3rd year give her "home student" status?  If so, would she have to take the gap year in the UK?  Are there any scholarships she could apply for (either in the UK or the USA)?

Thanks!


Offline Nan D.

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2017, 07:25:42 PM »
Hi. We are here in the UK, with my daughter on an EEA family permit as my dependent. She will be going to a graduate program in the fall. As I understand it, as long as my daughter is my financial dependent she can stay in the country and work or go to school. (She'll have to live with me.) So I assume the same is true for your daughter, depending on her age. Once she's not your dependent, or if she moves out, there might be problems with her remaining on the EEA family permit. I'm not sure what the repercussions of her staying at a University away from home would be, but it's something you should probably check out in advance.

We have run into the problem of residency for university residency (fees) purposes - we would have had to be in the country for three years with her not pursuing higher education before she'd have been considered not a "foreign" student for tuition purposes. Or we'd have to have been living in another EU country for that period of time to qualify for the EU fees.  Unfortunately, neither is the case. But we are in Scotland, and the tuition/fees scheme in England is different, I believe. We are having to pay the full international fees for her upcoming program, even though we are now living here on my EEA passport and her EEA dependent permit and hope to remain once Brexit is sorted out. On the good side, the fees are pretty much what we would have paid (or slightly less) to attend a Uni in the USA if we were paying out-of-pocket there. The quality of the education here in infinitely better.

FAFSA is the form you will want to submit early every year to the federal student aid people. As I understand it, that will allow your daughter to apply for US government student loans ~if~ the university she attends is approved by the US Dept of Education. There will be very little other federal aid available for her. Some Unis here have scholarships for foreign students, and the are some non-profit entities in both countries that also provide financial aid in the form of grants. I'd suggest looking at the website of the financial aid office of the university she might want to attend and see what they have listed. You can also Google and find aid listed - it is quite the treasure hunt and requires a LOT of legwork, but it's worth it. My daughter did just under two years here as an undergraduate on Ed Abroad from her home school and it cost her only the airfare.

Now that we are here, of course, and she has her undergrad degree, the funding that was available to her as an undergraduate is no longer there, but we're hopeful that her graduate program will be able to help with that in at least a small way.

On the good side, on the EEA family permit, your daughter can work part time during the year and more hours in the summer to put away some funds to help pay for uni, and work during the academic year to help with expenses. If you or your husband will be working or self-employed, you will not need to have CSI for your daughter while she's in education. If not, you will. Thankfully, the cost is nothing like what medical insurance is back in the states.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 07:29:36 PM by Nan D. »

Offline farmgirl

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2017, 07:54:25 PM »
Thank you for that information.  Where, may I ask, are you living?  We will be living in Colchester.  It would be interesting to find other expats in the area.  As well, we would like to find some teens/young adults who will be attending Colchester Sixth Form College and Colchester Institute.

We'll take it a step at a time.  First step is to get over to Colchester and settle in.  Next, is finding employment and then applying for residency.


Offline Sirius

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2017, 10:34:35 PM »
I would love to learn more about what options may be available to her as an American legally residing in the UK (she'd have two years residing in the UK when she finishes up the IB diploma).  In particular, could she (we) access FAFSA to pay for tuition at a UK university?  If she took a gap year after finishing up the IB diploma, would that 3rd year give her "home student" status? 

Nobody knows as the UK will be leaving the EU by March 2019 and your daughter's right to reside in the UK (be legally in the UK) will be under EU laws. EU laws cease on Brexit.

Perhaps sign up for texts from the UK government, to keep up to date with the status of non-EEA citizens using EU laws? Nan put the link in the visa section.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 10:36:15 PM by Sirius »

Offline farmgirl

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2017, 04:02:40 AM »
Thanks again,
On another subject...we are looking for places that offer the PSAT/NMSQT in Colchester, Chelmsford or Cambridge.  Our daughter would like to take it, as there are National Merit Scholarships available, depending on scores.  The test is offered in October.  Anyone know of a school or testing center?

Offline Nan D.

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2017, 07:18:08 AM »
Hi - For the testing, you might have better ( and quicker) luck contacting the testing agency directly with that question.

We are up in Scotland, so not near your future location. You will probably find someone on the board here who is, tho! :)

And Sirius is right, it's a crapshoot coming over now and hoping your daughter can stay. We only need the time for my daughter's master's degree and are hopeful she'll be allowed to stay longer.  Irish are considered "settled" by a mutual treaty (?) between the UK and Ireland, but there is no provision for sponsoring adult children, so all our eggs are in the one basket (so to speak). If they ask her to leave, I'll be leaving as well.  As your daughter is a minor, you may have more options. It's something you may want to check into in advance as well - the "usual" UK resident immigration route. Just so you don't get any nasty surprises later on.

Offline Sirius

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2017, 12:47:18 PM »
Irish are considered "settled" by a mutual treaty (?) between the UK and Ireland, but there is no provision for sponsoring adult children,

It's just an agreement and was only ever for those who are Irish or British citizens. Under that agreement, for their children, a child born in Britain to an Irish parent is born British and a child born on the Island of Ireland (not just Eire) to a British parent is born Irish.

As this is only an agreement, it has always been important for the Irish to get British citizenship asap if they want to remain in Britain in case the UK ends the agreement: as we have seen happen before to citizens of other countries who had to leave the UK as their agreement ended due to the high numbers of low skilled. The skilled stayed on visas.

However this time, the EU can stop the Irish living in Britain under the EU equality laws, even though Britain has said the Irish can still live in the UK. The now ex Irish PM, has been visiting other EEA countries to ask their governments to allow Ireland be treated as a special case. So that is a waiting game too.

I just found a link to this, at the bottom of this article.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-could-wipe-4bn-off-spanish-gdp-internal-report-shows-1.3005384

"Taoiseach Enda Kenny met Mr Rajoy in Madrid in January in an effort to convince the Spanish leader that Ireland should be treated as a unique case in negotiations."



so all our eggs are in the one basket (so to speak). If they ask her to leave, I'll be leaving as well.

Worst case scenario for these two:

Your daughter can get a Tier 4 student visa: you are already paying for her university education anyway. She pays the IHS which is cheaper than her CSI will be, even with the proposals to raise the IHS to £600 a year it seems and the IHS will cover existing conditions whereas private insurance won't. There are then work visas for the highly skilled or she might marry a British citizen who will sponsor her.

  As your daughter is a minor, you may have more options.

And a  minor can also be sponsored on a child Tier 4 visa too, by a school or college who has a sponsorship licence. Their parents pay for their education in the UK and pay the NHS IHS. But farmgirls's daughter is too old for that child to have a non-working parent with them too to look after them. These older children on Tier 4s are usally looked after by their boarding school and travel home during the holidays to be with their parents.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 01:36:59 PM by Sirius »

Offline farmgirl

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2017, 04:59:34 PM »
Our daughter is 16 years old.  She'll have (hopefully) two years at Colchester Sixth Form.  She is planning on doing the IB diploma.  Next academic year, the school year goes through mid-July, but the following year, she'll finish in May, which is right about at the time Brexit will be finalized.

We are strongly suggesting she keep her options open for colleges/university.  She thinks she wants to stay in the UK and study abroad, but it all comes down to eligibility and costs.  She is taking her SATs and ACT exams now and we are also trying to find a test center in the UK where she can take her PSATs this October, as that opens up potential National Merit Scholarship awards (probably all for US colleges).

We are looking at this more as a 1-2 year "adventure", as we have our home/land/property and some businesses here in the US (Oregon).

Offline Sirius

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2017, 06:15:29 PM »
Given the numbers of Irish in this country, the EU forcing them (us) all out would be kind of catastrophic for both economies, don't you think? 

There are more Irish in England than there are in Ireland  :) Most will have done their time to be able to apply for British citizenship which many are now doing, as they should have done as soon as they could apply as it is only an agreement.

The UK doesn't require the Irish to have worked, so unlike the EEA citizens, it is an easy process for them as long as they haven't served time in jail, ever been a sex offender in any country, kept committing offences in the UK, kept running up parking tickets (lack of respect for the laws of Britain) etc.

Ireland saying to the EU that this is so vital to Ireland, that if the EU stops this, they might have to leave the EU too.

However, since that agreement over 100 years ago, Ireland joined the EU with the UK and now has free movement too of course and  their citizens can go to the other 26 countries on free movement. But the EUs free movement, as you have read, is nowhere near as generous as Britain for them.

The Irish government have the problem that this is only an agreement from Britain, whereas if they remain in the EU, they will always have free movement. The UK will always have visas for those that have the skills the UK wants and will most likely have temporary visas for the low skilled, as the foreign secretary has already talked about.

But Ireland is a small country in the EU with a small voice in the EU once they lose a big payer like the UK. At least Poland, who also relied on the UK in the EU, have joined forces with the so called Visgrad Group, while venting their anger towards their ex PM Donald Tusk by trying to stop him getting re-elected as one of the EU's many presidents.

I had planned on applying for British citizenship just as soon as was possible, as had my daughter. 

As you knew before you moved, that is unlikely under EU laws as that needed at least 6 years of EU laws before Brexit. It's a case now of waiting to see what is offered.

At least you arrived knowing how the 2004 EU Directive of free movement works to make sure you stay legal in the UK at all times, have no intention of not having legal status in the UK and have no illusions.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:11:38 PM by Sirius »

Offline Sirius

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2017, 07:34:44 PM »

We are strongly suggesting she keep her options open for colleges/university.  She thinks she wants to stay in the UK and study abroad, but it all comes down to eligibility and costs. 

Even if the UK was still in the EU and there wasn't a Brexit by 2019, I can't see how that would be allowed as she is not an EEA citizen.  Non-EEA citizens using EU laws to reside in an EEA country, do not have the same rights as EEA citizens.

How would she be being a non-EEA citizen who is dependent on a EEA citizen and needs to be in the UK, if she lives and studies in another country? And by the age of 21, there would be no chance of showing she is still dependent on a EEA parent, as required under the Directive for a direct family member.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:45:17 PM by Sirius »

Offline farmgirl

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2017, 08:07:28 PM »
With the pre-Brexit laws, my understanding is that after residing for 3 years in the UK, she could have been considered a "home" student.  My understanding now is that she might be eligible to apply for a Tier 4 student visa (international student).  The primary issue with that is tuition cost.

Offline Sirius

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2017, 08:43:06 PM »
With the pre-Brexit laws, my understanding is that after residing for 3 years in the UK, she could have been considered a "home" student.  My understanding now is that she might be eligible to apply for a Tier 4 student visa (international student).  The primary issue with that is tuition cost.

It is up to the university if they want to give home fees, usually they don't if they haven't met the 3 years, but for UK student loans, it must be the 3 years.
When the UK comes out of the EU by March 2019, they may not allow this anymore, this is why you should sign up for texts to find out, when the UK have decided. 

Under UK immigration laws, those coming to the UK on spouse visas, dependant of work visas etc, can't have home fees after 3 years, nor UK student loans.

Those on a Tier 4 visa, don't get home fees as they are international students and they sort out their own funding from their own country.

The UK and Ireland are the only ones in the EU who have this 3 year rule. Your husband could go and work in any of the other EEA countries with all his family members and not have that 3 year wait for your daughter. Family dependants can only live in the country where their EEA citizen (their sponsor) is exercising treaty rights as a qualified person, so you would all need to be in the same country.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 08:52:22 PM by Sirius »

Offline farmgirl

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2017, 08:53:38 PM »
Could you remind me where we can sign up for texts? 

Also, do you have any recommendations on universities, for undergraduate studies, in the EU that might be good ones to look into.  While my daughter doesn't yet know what she wants to study, she loves history, architecture, art and English.  She also is (nearly) fluent in Spanish and might like to continue with Spanish studies.  She is an excellent student.

Offline larrabee

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March 29th 2013-Moved to UK, husband on spouse visa.Oct 20th 2015-Applied by mail for FLR(M).Feb 1st 2016 FLR(M).

Offline farmgirl

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Re: EEA Family Permit, UK residency and university
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2017, 08:59:44 PM »
Thank you.