Author Topic: Never Had one Like Me Before  (Read 740 times)

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Offline Nan D.

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Never Had one Like Me Before
« on: May 19, 2017, 08:05:09 PM »
Ok, Phoned to try to register with the local GP here in Glasgow. Explained I was an Irish citizen, and retired. Was asked where we last lived, and told them California. But that we were now settled here. Immediately got "not sure if you're eligible, hold please" before I could get a word in. Then they came back and said they'd have to check, would phone me back, thankyouhangup. I literally could not get a word in.

I phoned back a bit later and said I have an email from the Scottish Government explaining how I am eligible to be seen on the NHS and would they like to have a copy. So it's emailed to them. They seemed hung up on the "last lived in California" rather than the EU citizen exercising treaty rights bit, but eventually it will sort out, I'm hoping. Lady was very nice but said they don't get many people retiring here from the States. So I had to remind her that I was EU again, and she said she'd sent off for guidance.

If I don't hear back from them by next week I'll pop round, I guess? ::)

Offline Sirius

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 11:18:45 PM »
Ok, Phoned to try to register with the local GP here in Glasgow. Explained I was an Irish citizen, and retired. Was asked where we last lived, and told them California. But that we were now settled here.

You aren't settled in the UK, you are being an EU citizen exercising free movement treaty rights as a self sufficient person (have the funds to keep yourself and your family, have CSIs for both of you and can't have UK benefits). It will be easier when you both get your RCs.






« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 11:38:56 PM by Sirius »

Offline KFdancer

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2017, 03:36:35 AM »
Probably best to pop around anyway.  Too easy to fob you off over the phone and likely some paperwork will be needed.

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2017, 05:58:37 AM »
"Settled" not in the legal term - I didn't use that specific word with her. I said we were living here now and planned to stay permanently. (No, I didn't say "permanent resident"  ;D  ) But yes, it may be best to pop round next week if I don't hear back.... The email from the govmt is crystal clear, so hopefully that will help.

Offline Sirius

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2017, 10:53:55 AM »
"Settled" not in the legal term - I didn't use that specific word with her. I said we were living here now and planned to stay permanently. (No, I didn't say "permanent resident"  ;D  ) But yes, it may be best to pop round next week if I don't hear back.... The email from the govmt is crystal clear, so hopefully that will help.

Just say you are an EU citizen exercising treaty rights. Forget mentioning the planning to stay permantly bit as most people know that will be down to the Brexit talks. Don't confuse them. :)

While the UK is still in the EU, then EEA citizens and their Direct Family Members are allowed to reside in the UK if the EEA citizen remains a qualified person at all times; which you are as you both have a comprehensive sickness insurance and are not taking UK welfare payments. You planned this to make sure you are following the free movement Directive at all times. :)

You might need to visit the GPs to show proof that you are now residing in Scotland and not just visitiing, perhaps show them your rental tenancy and council tax bill? This could be why they are balking at you arriving from the US with an Irish passort and asking to use their NHS for free. Visitors, even Irish citizens, are not allowed to use the NHS for free as Ireland pays their NHS bills. However, if their Irish citizen was not living in Ireland, then Ireland would not pay the NHS bills of that Irish citizen visitor and that person is billed directly by the NHS with 50% added to the bill if they don't have insurance.

Once NHS Scotland has confirmed you are resding there and that they will pay your NHS bills, if you visit England, NI, Wales and Ireland and need urgent medical treatment while you are there, they bill NHS Scotland.

The GPs surgery will already have a list of what they require to prove residency as even Brits need to prove residency in the UK to use the NHS bill free. You need to prove residency as an EEA citizen qualified person, as you are using the EU Directive of free movement of people to be in Scotland with your non-EEA citizen daughter. Make sure you keep to that, even though you have irish citizenship, as your daughter needs you to be an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights, so that she can reside in the UK.

Yes that email will help, but remember too that the EU Directive says that another member state (EEA country) does not have to provide heathcare if the EU citizen isn't economically active there (working in "genuine and effective" work). That is up to NHS Scotland and they can change their minds.

You really will need to apply for those RCs asap as you said you wanted to find a job, but it will be hard to find an employer without an RC to show them. An RC might make it easier to use the Scottish NHS too. :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 12:02:14 PM by Sirius »

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2017, 07:48:54 PM »
Working on it!  :D  Last week was getting all the utilities and a bank account sorted, plus identifying a UK insurance plan for the Daughter (we have settled on one, I think). We will be talking to the company at the start of next week to purchase the CSI for her. She is still on a full-cover insurance plan from the states that runs out May 31. Mine continues indefinitely, so my part is managed.

The cafeteria selections on the insurances (I phoned and spoke with three different companies in the last few days) are pretty staggering. Even going with the "full cover" option on everything health-related her premiums will be under 60 pounds a month. The company we are probably going to us is VitalityHealth, because they have an online GP consultation option (which is very appealing). Anyone ever heard of them? The policy quoted seems to be quite comprehensive, and from the research I've been able to do online it seems as if it will meet the CSI test (covers almost everything).

Once we have the proof of insurance, we will yea and verily toodle down the "do what it takes to get the RCs path" for both of us ASAP.  I have just purchased a printer, which was delivered Thursday, and can now do printy things....

I also have the form to apply for the National Old People's Bus Pass (sorry, formal name of the program escapes me). I'd brought a passport photo to use, but USA passport photos are larger than UK ones and the form asks for a UK passport photo, so I need to go find a photo booth or something to get one. I'm getting more comfortable with the bus system - have managed to find a shortcut to Ikea on them that doesn't involve going through city center!

The controls on the washing machine, however, are still the bane of my existence.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:28:17 AM by Nan D. »

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 08:49:00 PM »
Ok, gave up on that surgery.  They kept insisting that my daughter's EU family permit meant she could only be in the country for six months and kept calling it a visa. I kept telling them it was a family permit, and because of it she did not NEED a visa. They then decided that I was ~her~ dependent. We went round on that and I maintained that I was exercising treaty rights (etc) and they kept saying that I'd have to be a private pay patient for six months and that Daughter was not eligible.

So I phoned NHS Inform who said that was... not correct... and gave me the names and contact info of two other surgeries. We are taking our paperwork to one tomorrow afternoon to fill out in person. It's twice as far from our home, but not terribly far away.  If that doesn't pan out, we have the third, which is a similar distance in another direction and on a bus route.  If THAT one doesn't pan out, NHS Inform gave us a number to phone and said to tell them what had happened, and they would assign us to a GP.

Hoping surgery #2 works out. Taking copy of council tax application receipt showing both our names, passports, copy of memo from the government re treaty rights, copy of lease, copy of electric/gas account paperwork. Hopefully that will be enough!

Offline larrabee

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 08:59:42 PM »
Sorry to hear you got the runaround. I hope you have better luck with your second choice.
March 29th 2013-Moved to UK, husband on spouse visa.Oct 20th 2015-Applied by mail for FLR(M).Feb 1st 2016 FLR(M).

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 09:10:50 PM »
Well, not meaning to be too snarky here, but if the person I was dealing with had brainpower representative of the rest of the staff there... I don't think I'd want to have to deal with them in a "we're sick" situation anyway.  ::)

NHS said they should have at least offered us a temporary/visitor registration.

So, everything happens for a reason. This second surgery apparently has night and weekend hours, so that's good....

Offline ksand24

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 10:30:39 PM »
It seems to be a recurring theme that GP surgery reception staff don't have a clue when it comes to visas and NHS entitlement.

I would have thought they'd be a bit better with it now, since the IHS surcharge has been brought in and they're supposed to be doing more thorough checks to make sure people are entitled to care, but it seems not.


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Offline Nan D.

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2017, 08:43:28 AM »
Could be. She had to email their local council (?) for advice and I'm assuming it was someone along the line who probably didn't phrase the question correctly. I did talk to two people there, neither of which had a clue. So, after lunch we're going to take a nice walk in the sun (blue skies here today) and visit the next potential surgery.

Offline ksand24

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2017, 09:06:15 AM »
Could be. She had to email their local council (?) for advice and I'm assuming it was someone along the line who probably didn't phrase the question correctly. I did talk to two people there, neither of which had a clue. So, after lunch we're going to take a nice walk in the sun (blue skies here today) and visit the next potential surgery.

Hopefully you'll have better luck there :).

In the past, there have been a lot of people here with spousal visas (which entitle them to free NHS care from day one) being told by the GP receptionists that they have to wait until they've lived in the UK for 6 months before they can get free treatment... which is just not true at all.

They often ended up having to print off the official guidance from the NHS and gov.uk websites which state they are entitled to care, in order to show that they are allowed to register.

Offline Nan D.

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2017, 09:24:38 AM »
Hopefully you'll have better luck there :).

In the past, there have been a lot of people here with spousal visas (which entitle them to free NHS care from day one) being told by the GP receptionists that they have to wait until they've lived in the UK for 6 months before they can get free treatment... which is just not true at all.

They often ended up having to print off the official guidance from the NHS and gov.uk websites which state they are entitled to care, in order to show that they are allowed to register.

Yeah, I have that printed and in the stack. :)  These people seemed a bit more "with it" so fingers are crossed.

Offline Sirius

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2017, 12:02:11 PM »
Ok, gave up on that surgery.  They kept insisting that my daughter's EU family permit meant she could only be in the country for six months and kept calling it a visa.

Actually the FP is multi entry permit for an non-EEA citizen family members of an EEA citizen. They can stay for up to 6 months, but their EEA citizen sponsor can't, as these can only stay 3 months under EU law, unless they become a qualified person. Other EEA country only issue FPs for 3 months, but the UK allows these non-EEA citizens 6 months on a FP, just as other visitors to the UK also get 6 months. 

An FP  doesn't mean they can use that member states healthcare system as a citizen of that county would, nor work, as this only come from their EEA citizen sponsor being a quaified person at all times. This is why empoyers and universities, want an RC asap. We see many who enter on a FP, work and then find they have to stop work as they can't get a UK RC.

The 2004 Directive states that EEA citizens and their FMs can only use that member states healthcare as a citizen of the country, if their EEA sponsor is working. Most EEA countries ask for proof of that the/their EEA citizen was working the previous week, or they bill them for any healthcare, or bill their own EEA country via the EHICs. Just as many EEA countries tell EEA citizens and their family members, that they must all register with their police. The UK doesn't do any of this as the UK governments have been very lax.

That said, the UK is still very generous, at present, and will let student qualified persons and self sufficient qualified persons and all their family members, use the NHS for free instead of billing them or their EEA county for their healthcare. However to be legally in the UK these must still comply with the EU Directive and all have a CSI each. I assume this is still a hangover from when the NHS was free for everyone who was legally in the UK, which ended in April 2015.?  However, the UK can start to bill these/their own EEA country via their EHIC, under EU law, just as other member states already do to the British/the UK via EHICs.


Most NHS surgeries/Trust, have been very lax and it has been easy for EEA visitors to nip over and use the NHS, and the same with non-EEA visitors as we have seen on this forum. Unlike England, NHS Scotland might not see many EEA citizen and their family members and don't know what they can have and what they can't have for free. As you said, they never had one like you before. ;) A GP does not have to put someone on their books, as that is their choice.

You don't need RCs under EU law, but in the UK it is easier to have these to use the NHS, work, university as a Family Permit is just an multi entry permit. An RC is proof that, at the time it was issued, the EEA citizen/their EEA citizen sponsor, was being a qualified person in the UK. However, the RC becomes invalid if the EEA citizen stops being a qualified person and they and all their family members then lose their right to reside in that member state.

Basically, it's hard in the UK to not have an RC, even though the Directive says that EEA citizens and their Direct Family Members, don't need to get these. This is because the UK is so lax in checking, compared to other EEA countries. Extended Family Members must have RCs. Although it is easy to not be caught, as the employer, the NHS, university, has no idea that their RC has become invalid, unless the holder tells them.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 12:16:54 PM by Sirius »

Offline MPI

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Re: Never Had one Like Me Before
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2017, 03:47:37 PM »
Hopefully you'll have better luck there :).

In the past, there have been a lot of people here with spousal visas (which entitle them to free NHS care from day one) being told by the GP receptionists that they have to wait until they've lived in the UK for 6 months before they can get free treatment... which is just not true at all.

They often ended up having to print off the official guidance from the NHS and gov.uk websites which state they are entitled to care, in order to show that they are allowed to register.

We are registered to the GP on the campus of the university my husband works for.  They are excellent with immigration knowledge, we think because they deal with a lot of foreign students.  If anyone in the catchment area for a GP near a large university I would definitely recommend looking in to them because they deal with this kind of thing a lot! 
Spouse Visa:
Received by Sheffield 19 Nov 2016
Decision Made 26 Jan 2017
Visa Received 30 Jan 2017
Arrived in UK 15 Feb 2017