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Topic: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels  (Read 5147 times)

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Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« on: July 05, 2017, 01:41:10 PM »
I read this bizarre article in the Guardian about people who spend time shooting grey squirrels.  Since the grey squirrel is seen as "American" and an invader who is bigger and stronger that out-competes the native red squirrels, it seems a bit disconcerting to see people taking great pleasure in shooting them.   I get the impression that the nutter Sara Palin looking lady would happily take a shot at me if given the chance .

Check it out:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/02/kill-them-the-volunteer-army-plotting-to-wipe-out-britains-grey-squirrels?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2017, 01:53:03 PM »
It is an invasive species pushing the native red squirrel towards extinction and upsetting the natural food chain with potentially larger impacts. Culling them does make sense.

I don't know what's in the head of the people doing this. You've inserted an assumption. I don't know if that's backed up by the article or if the article accurately portrays what's in their heads. I can make no judgement on any of that.


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 02:17:27 PM »
It is an invasive species pushing the native red squirrel towards extinction and upsetting the natural food chain with potentially larger impacts. Culling them does make sense.

I don't know what's in the head of the people doing this. You've inserted an assumption. I don't know if that's backed up by the article or if the article accurately portrays what's in their heads. I can make no judgement on any of that.


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I'm not convinced by any of that , a squirrel is a squirrel.  Native or not Native is a meaningless distinction in the global world we live in.  The UK is covered in non native species.  I think plenty of those people just seem to get off on killing things, even better if they are foreign.

I disagree that you can't make a judgement about what's going on in those people's heads.  I did, you can too.  Granted, it's just our opinion.

Good to see you back anyway.  Maybe you'll have some time to post those specific Tweets by Mayor Khan that justified Trump's classless attack on all Londoners while we were counting our dead.  I haven't forgotten, and neither has anyone else here, as Trump will find if he ever gathers the courage to show his face around here.

By the way, I'm also interested in your opinion of another of Trump's obnoxious Tweets, where he offered help to the parents of the dying kid who want to bring him to America for treatment.  I thought that was stupid, cruel and callous beyond belief. 

What's your take on that?


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2017, 02:20:30 PM »
Yeah, to be honest, Tex  is right, for a change.  Grey squirrels are invasive, and are threatening to red squirrels' survival.

I'm not saying the folks in the article definitely *aren't* crazy, but I'm fairly sure they'll be painted that way back the Guardian regardless, because UK culture has real difficulty wrapping it's head around the idea of hunting as a legitimate means of natural resources management.

My family back home shoots grey squirrels quite frequently, and the only thing in mind is 'Yum! Squirrel stew!' 

(My dad actually gave frozen squirrels as Christmas gifts one year. I wish I were making that up.)

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Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2017, 02:25:37 PM »
I'd eat squirrel stew and would never argue that people shouldn't hunt for food. 

I'm not convinced that we are ever going to kill all the grey squirrels and somehow the reds are going to make a comeback. 

I like grey squirrels just fine and I am unbothered by the fact that they out compete the reds. 

But I'm no biologist and have just read one article.  What I'm more interested in is the thinly disguised xenophobia and glee in shooting the "foreigner squirrel "
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:29:35 PM by jimbocz »


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2017, 02:30:59 PM »
And I would love to get  a frozen squirrel for Christmas.


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 02:51:16 PM »
They say that the grey is the bad guy but squirrels fighting amongst themselves seems a lot fairer and more natural than humans hunting and poisoning them. I hate the thought of that.  :-\\\\

We have greys in our garden and they are lovely little things.



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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 03:08:21 PM »
I'm not convinced by any of that , a squirrel is a squirrel.  Native or not Native is a meaningless distinction in the global world we live in.  The UK is covered in non native species.  I think plenty of those people just seem to get off on killing things, even better if they are foreign.

I disagree that you can't make a judgement about what's going on in those people's heads.  I did, you can too.  Granted, it's just our opinion.

Good to see you back anyway.  Maybe you'll have some time to post those specific Tweets by Mayor Khan that justified Trump's classless attack on all Londoners while we were counting our dead.  I haven't forgotten, and neither has anyone else here, as Trump will find if he ever gathers the courage to show his face around here.

By the way, I'm also interested in your opinion of another of Trump's obnoxious Tweets, where he offered help to the parents of the dying kid who want to bring him to America for treatment.  I thought that was stupid, cruel and callous beyond belief. 

What's your take on that?
Are you serious?

You like diversity and multiculturalism I assume, but you think it's okay to wipe out a whole species here and there cause you don't appreciate the special distinctive differences between them? I don't know how you feel about GMOs, but the best argument against them is they reduce biodiversity. You don't care about gray vs red squirrels till reds are wiped out and only grays remain. Then some disease comes along that reds could have better resisted & it wipes out greys. Now you got no squirrels, but you have starving foxes encroaching on people & attacking chickens or whatever... how is that good?

Any sane biologist, liberal or conservative, would say at very least you have to hold grey squirrels in check if not eliminate them.

I don't have a lot of time as I'm studying for multiple bar exams, but...

To be clear, I'm not a Trump supporter and never have been. I don't like the guy at all. I don't think he's conservative at all, I do think he's a classless narcissistic terrible person, I wish he'd shut up about as much as I suspect you do, and I don't appreciate the way he represents the office or the country.

That aside, he is legitimately the president and as such is owed the deference and respect due to that office.

For my part, I'll defend pretty much anyone I believe is being unfairly attacked. I think there's a lot of room to be critical of the president on a lot of things, but when it goes too far then I'll push back. If you look at what's going on in America right now among conservatives, that's it. Most of us don't really like Trump. Easily more than half the votes for him were much more about being against Hillary or points left of her. When opposition to the president goes beyond reasonable and respectful, then people start rejecting it and find themselves increasingly defending people they may not like very much. Whatever you may think of the president, attacking him personally to the degree happening now makes him stronger and more likely to be reelected.

Specifically to the exchange with Khan... the timing & delivery weren't very good, but conservatives criticizing an attitude of multiculturalism that avoids asking legitimate security questions or doing investigations so as not to offend, and then results in people known to police with a history of involvement in extremism carrying out attacks? Yeah it's very fair to criticize that. You may disagree. You may believe, as Khan does, that extremism can be defeated with hugs and govt paid benefits, and that we should just accept the casualties from the attacks that still happen in spite of your strategy. But if we follow your strategy, and there's a mass casualty attack, you should not be surprised or offended when people point out that these are the casualties you said we have to sacrifice for the attitudes and policies you've demanded we have. Trump might be a ham fisted jerk, but his criticism isn't really wrong. If you're going to be on the other side of that, just own it. Just accept and openly say yes, this is the cost of the society you want to be part of, and tragic as it is, that's the price of doing business. I respect that. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. I'm very happy to put those two clear honest and reasonable positions before the people of any free nation and let them decide for themselves what they want.

As for the baby Charlie thing...

Obviously I believe the parents need to come to terms with their kid isn't going to be cured or have a long and happy life. He's going to die. Either this week or a year from now if they get their way, but he's going to die. The logical choice is to accept that and let him go.

However, I also believe that has to be the choice of the parents. If the action proposed by the parent is not abuse sufficient to remove custody and terminate their parental rights, then never should a doctor (much less the government) be able to terminate life support against the wishes of the next of kin. That the UK courts decided as they did is extremely troubling to me from a legal perspective.

If that was you sitting in a UK hospital with cancer and NHS decided it's not cost effective to treat you further, but a US hospital said they're willing to treat you and have some options that might extend your life for a few years... but the UK govt said they would not permit you to leave the hospital or to travel abroad. That you were physically under arrest and would be held in hospital where they've decided you will die... that's crazy! By what right should govt be able to take that choice out of your hands, most especially in a life or death situation.

Specifically to Trump's tweet on the subject...

You'll note it follows statements by the Pope and the senior leadership of the Catholic Church. So, if we're going to attack Trump then we have to lump the Pope in with him.

That aside, the mother retweeted Trump's tweet saying if the kid was still in the fight then they were too. The parents together released statements saying they were gratified by the support from the president and that it brought them a great deal of comfort.

If your point is that his tweet is embarrassing to the UK and that is more important than what these parents are going through, then I just can't be with you on that.

Whatever policy decisions a govt or court makes, they have to own. If it's embarrassing to them, then so be it. If that makes them the bad guy then that's the way it is. If it focuses a magnifying glass of public sentiment on these decisions so that they're either reinforced or moderated in the future, then that's a good thing.

I don't know, that's my take.




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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 03:32:01 PM »
I think where you are wrong on Baby Charlie is that he is suffering.  I think the parent's rights were in fact removed because he is suffering, so this case actually meets your abuse test.  Nobody wants to call it abuse, but everyone but the parents recognise that it would be abuse to take him to the US for treatment.  It's not about costs.  Like you, I would be troubled if several courts hadn't decided it was in the child's best interests. 


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2017, 03:37:43 PM »
Trump's tweet did not embarrass the UK, it was cruel to prolong the parent's idea that their baby is not going to die.  He probably just wasn't aware of the multiple judgments and evidence that no good would come out of this and just tweeted his response without thinking.  It was thoughtless and cruel.  The parents may think it's comforting but Trump can't overrule various European courts. 


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Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2017, 03:39:39 PM »
When has Khan ever said that extremism could be cured by hugs and government benefits?  I've never heard him say anything like that.  That sounds more like alt right BS than truth.  Prove me wrong by finding the proof.

Never has Khan let multiculturalism stop police from asking legitimate security questions. Why would you say that when there is simply no proof?  I'd prefer to think that since you don't live here and your sources are secondary , they might be telling you that BS but it is not true. 

The only reason that the terrorists who were known to the police were not monitored more closely was resources, not political correctness.  Thanks to economic austerity, the numbers of police available had been drastically reduced.  Seriously, if you have heard that it was because of fear of offending Muslims, please re evaluate your news sources. 

« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 03:51:41 PM by jimbocz »


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2017, 03:57:51 PM »
Finally, your point about bio diversity fails to take into account that there are plenty of red squirrels in Europe, some have already been introduced here before.   There's plenty of biodiversity in the squirrel population. 

Also, as far as I know, squirrels have no culture.  You can't blame this one on multiculturalism. 

Good luck on your bar exams. 


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2017, 04:09:05 PM »
And thanks for taking time from your exams to talk to me.  It's okay if you need to study rather than arguing about squirrels on the internet


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2017, 05:22:13 PM »
Things go extinct. Others don't. Hopefully.....this will continue. It's important that this procedure takes place.
Fred


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Re: Nutters who shoot grey squirrels
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2017, 07:43:05 PM »
Bring back wolves!
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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