FLR(M) - 2nd Spouse Visa

Hi,

My original spouse entry visa will be expiring soon... in December actually, and I'm trying to get everything ready, but have a couple general questions.

1) Like my first entry clearance visa, do I need to submit a cover letter and/or a spousal support letter along with this FLR(M) 2nd visa?

2) Anybody recommend applying online vs apply strictly by POST only?  Will doing it online speed it up?  I started the application and noticed the website is in BETA mode... at £1500 I don't feel like testing the waters for them.

3) Regarding the Six items of correspondence.  I'm assuming as long as the correspondence is somewhat evenly spaced, we might have limited correspondence mail the first 4 months here, since we were staying at/in a caravan until we settled into a rental property after finding jobs.  I'm guessing we'll be able to muster at least one of separate individual mail with same address for that 4 months but will have to do some digging still.  We have plenty covering the period there after.

4) Maybe haven't came across that part yet, but for my first entry clearance visa I had to supply a prepaid return envelope along with everything else.  Is that the same case for this FLR(M) (my 2nd visa) when in the UK?

Appreciate any advice, cheers.

1) a spouse support letter isn't listed in the required documents, but there's no harm in sending one

2) I would NOT apply online - it has glitches and also the questions are different... plus we can't see it, so we can't help you with filling it out. Also, it's processed in a different city to the paper form, and the documents are submitted differently. Go with the paper form.

3) you only need to cover the last 2 years of correspondence - so from late 2015 to late 2017. That's one document in each name for each 4-month period, from at least 3 different sources

4) I don't think you need to supply anything unless you want to use Special Delivery, but the FLR(M) guidance notes will tell you more.


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3) you only need to cover the last 2 years of correspondence - so from late 2015 to late 2017. That's one document in each name for each 4-month period, from at least 3 different sources

Okay... looks like we should be good as long as the 3 different sources can be spread over the 2 years and DOES NOT mean that we'll need documents from 3 different sources for each 4-month period?

This is what we currently have for the last 2 years for correspondence:

Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 16/09/2015
Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 01/03/2016
Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 01/07/2016
Car Insurance policy cancellation letter - My Name - Date: 01/07/2016
Disclosure Scotland Letter - Partner's Name - Date: 07/08/2016
Royal Mail redirection letter - My Name - Date: 21/09/2016
Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 17/10/2016
Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 01/03/2017
Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 01/06/2017
Welcome Letter from Employer - My Name - Date: 15/05/2017
Council Pension Letter - Partner's Name - Date: 08/2017
Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 29/09/2017

I hope that should do it right?  Thanks ksand24!

Okay... looks like we should be good as long as the 3 different sources can be spread over the 2 years and DOES NOT mean that we'll need documents from 3 different sources for each 4-month period?

That's correct - 3 sources in total.

Okay, looking at what you have, and if you're applying in October, I would go with:

Nov 2015-Feb 2016
1. ?

Mar-June 2016
2. Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 01/03/2016

July-Oct 2016
3. Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 01/07/2016

Nov 2016-Feb 2017
4. ?

Mar-June 2017
5. Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 01/03/2017

July-Oct 2017
6. Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 29/09/2017

So, you currently have no mail for the 4-month periods between November and February each year. Ideally, you want something dated in November, so that it's 4 months before and after the other documents. And you also need one more source.

What about things like:
- water bills
- electricity bills
- NHS letters
- DVLA letters
- HMRC letters
- tenancy agreements
- TV licence

Ah great, thanks... for some reason I broke up the year from Jan-April and didn't base it on application date, which makes sense.  Actually on a side-note, At first I thought everybody had to wait until 28 days before the expiry date on your visa, which means November for me, but apparently I read you can apply also 28 days before completing 30 months in the UK while on first visa, which would of allowed me to apply last September

So I should be okay applying this week eh?

Okay regarding correspondence stuff, I have revised it to the following:

Nov 2015-Feb 2016
1. Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 27/11/2015

Mar-June 2016
2. Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 01/03/2016

July-Oct 2016
3. Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 01/07/2016
4. Tenancy Agreement - Both Names - Date: 30/09/2016 (Also for meeting accommodation requirement).

Nov 2016-Feb 2017
5. Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 01/11/2016

Mar-June 2017
6. Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 01/03/2017

July-Oct 2017
7. Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 29/09/2017

Should I include a few other mailed items (but not in both names) to make sure I meet the 3 separate resources rule?

If you arrived on a spousal visa, it's valid for 33 months but you only have to live in the UK for 30 months before applying for ILR... so it depends when you entered the UK to start the 30 months... the earliest you can apply is 28 days before you reach 30 months and the latest is the expiry date of the visa.

So, yep, you could apply now if you wanted... in which case you would want documents from:
Oct-Jan
Feb-June
July-Sept


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In regards to your documents, they will only consider 6 items, so only send 6.

So for July-Oct 2016, you would have to include the tenancy agreement and not the bank statement to make 3 sources... but really there's too much of a gap between that and the council tax bill and it's too close to the bank statement.

Do you have anything different in separate names dated around July 2016 AND July 2017... because you now don't have anything between March and September for either year.


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In regards to your documents, they will only consider 6 items, so only send 6.

Surely that can't be right!?  How can they ONLY consider 6 items when some people might have to submit more than 6 to be able to meet the minimum 3 sources and evenly cover the last two years?

Below is straight from the FLR(M) application note 11

For example - Four items of correspondence in joint names to the same address and two items
addressed to each partner at the address. In total eight items would need to be submitted.
If you and your partner have no bills or correspondence in joint names, you will need to submit
twelve items (six each) of correspondence, evidencing that you reside together at the same
address."

So for July-Oct 2016, you would have to include the tenancy agreement and not the bank statement to make 3 sources... but really there's too much of a gap between that and the council tax bill and it's too close to the bank statement.

Do you have anything different in separate names dated around July 2016 AND July 2017... because you now don't have anything between March and September for either year.

Yeah I think I might be able to dig up something around July for both years... BUT for July 2016.. that would put that statement about 8 months from the last document??? - 1. Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 27/11/2015

Are you saying that UKVI expects people to submit statements that are about 4 months apart?

I guess, I'll have to spend more hours digging... and I'll start with a statement from this month or last month (oct/sept 2017) and work my way back 4 months at a time, but this will probably mean we won't have any JOINT statements and most if not all might be individual statements!?

If not I think it would be better to just insert one or two individual statements to make sure we don't have a gap larger than 4 months which IMO would show more proof with less statements/paperwork.

I wouldn't want to annoy the immigration person from submitting more correspondence than required... but at £1500 per visa I would much rather submit more than to potentially submit too little and fail to meet a UKVI requirement.

Thanks for your advice though!

Surely that can't be right!?  How can they ONLY consider 6 items when some people might have to submit more than 6 to be able to meet the minimum 3 sources and evenly cover the last two years?

If you absolutely cannot provide 3 sources, you just send the 6 items you have and write a letter explaining why you were not able to gather 3 sources.

However, almost everyone who has applied has been able to gather 3 sources, so it's never been an issue before (this is also the reason why we tell people to get their names on as many things as possible as soon as they arrive in the UK, so they are guaranteed to have 3 sources).

Below is straight from the FLR(M) application note 11
Yeah I think I might be able to dig up something around July for both years... BUT for July 2016.. that would put that statement about 8 months from the last document??? - 1. Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 27/11/2015

Sorry, I thought the bank statement was in 2016 not 2015.

What you want is something like:

November 2015 - 1. bank statement
(4 months)
March 2016 - 2. council tax
(4 months)
July 2016 - 3. something else
(4 months)
November 2016 - 4. bank statement
(4 months)
March 2017 - 5. council tax
(4 months)
July 2017 - 6. something else

Are you saying that UKVI expects people to submit statements that are about 4 months apart?

Yes, that's the whole point... they must be EVENLY SPACED over the 2 years... so 3 items per year, 4 months apart.

If not I think it would be better to just insert one or two individual statements to make sure we don't have a gap larger than 4 months which IMO would show more proof with less statements/paperwork.

Whatever you need to do to make sure you have 3 sources, 4 months apart.

I wouldn't want to annoy the immigration person from submitting more correspondence than required... but at £1500 per visa I would much rather submit more than to potentially submit too little and fail to meet a UKVI requirement.

DO NOT submit too many. ONLY submit 6.

By submitting too many you risk them missing something important because it gets lost amongst the unnecessary documents.

If you were to apply in person, I don't think they would allow you to give them more than 6. Some people take along extra documents to an in-person appointment, but they only actually hand over 6 of them (the others are just in case).

Thanks ksand24!

Okay after many hours of collecting and ordering all our mail by date... I think I hopefully have a sequence that works... but period 4. (12 october council tax bill) is off by 12 days and period 6. letters are dated end of January and are off by a few days from February 1st.  Other than that, looks like it meets their requirement of: 1) acceptable forms of correspondence 2) evenly spaced over last 2 years 3) Shows our names with the same address. 4) At least 3 different sources.

1. October 2017 - July 2017 (4 months)
TSB Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 29/09/2017

2. June 2017 - March 2017 (4 months)
TSB Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 01/06/2017

3. February 2017 - November 2016 (4 months)
TSB Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 01/02/2017

4. October 2016 - July 2016 (4 months)
Council Tax Bill - Both Names - Date: 12/10/2016

5. June 2016 - March 2016 (4 months)
TSB Bank Statement - Both Names - Date: 01/06/2016

6. February 2016 - November 2015 (4 months)
DVSA car driving theory test letter - My Name - Date: 28/01/2016
Council Employment letter - Partner's Name - Date: 26/01/2016

In addition the application will also have a Tenancy Agreement dated 30/09/2016 (For accommodation requirement).

In order to meet the 6 evenly spaced periods you can submit 6 items of correspondence if both names are on all correspondence mail and have at least 3 different sources and of course evenly spaced.  In my case, I'll need to submit 7 items to meet the 6 evenly spaced periods.

If that's not going to work then I guess I'll have to type up a letter trying to explain why, but imo it would be totally overkill and more paperwork that the immigration officer would have to shift through... plus I have no idea what I would write.. We pretty much live normal lives and kept most/if not all our mail, but after this visa... for up coming ILR, I'm going to go and open 5 different bank accounts and definitely not going green!  The gas/electricity bill is one company here and can only be in one name and not to mention they only send out 4 statements a year. There are no water bills because it's tied into council tax here and we hardly have any NHS letters thank goodness that we're healthy!


Below is coming straight from the FLR(M) application:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Six items of correspondence addressed to you and your partner at the same address as
evidence that you have been living together since your last grant of leave in this category, or
from the date you first started living together up to a maximum of two years. See Note 11.

Note 11: The items of correspondence should be addressed to you jointly or in both your names.
Examples of acceptable items are listed below. The documents provided must be originals.
Photocopies are not acceptable.
The dates of the items of correspondence should be spread evenly over the whole period you
are relying on. They should be from at least 3 different sources. If you do not have enough items
in your joint names, you may also provide items addressed to each of you individually if they
show the same address for both of you.
For example - Four items of correspondence in joint names to the same address and two items
addressed to each partner at the address. In total eight items would need to be submitted.
If you and your partner have no bills or correspondence in joint names, you will need to submit
twelve items (six each) of correspondence, evidencing that you reside together at the same
address.
If you and your partner lived with relatives or friends for some or all of the period you are relying
on, please provide a letter from the relative(s) and/or friend(s) confirming this.
If you did not live together for any part of the period you are relying on, tell us the reasons for
this and whether you stayed in contact with each other during this time, and provide any relevant
supporting evidence.
Please give an explanation on a separate sheet if you cannot provide six items; if the items are
not addressed to both of you; or if they do not cover the period you are relying on.

Examples of acceptable items of correspondence
• Letters or other documents from government departments or agencies, for example HM
Revenue and Customs, Department for Work and Pensions, DVLA, TV Licensing.
• Letters or other documents from your GP, a hospital or other local health service about
medical treatments, appointments, home visits or other medical matters
• Bank statements/letters
• Building society savings books/letters
• Council tax bills or statements
• Electricity and/or gas bills or statements
• Water rates bills or statements
• Mortgage statements/agreement
• Tenancy agreement(s)
• Telephone bills or statements
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks ksand24!

Okay after many hours of collecting and ordering all our mail by date... I think I hopefully have a sequence that works... but period 4. (12 october council tax bill) is off by 12 days and period 6. letters are dated end of January and are off by a few days from February 1st.

Great . They don't have to be exactly 4 months apart... you can have a few weeks either way... but what you don't want is 2 months, then 8 months or similar.

Your list looks good. Absolutely no need to write a letter - you now meet the requirements more closely than a lot of people manage .

You're still only submitting 6 documents for the requirement, not 7, though.

It's 6 documents in EACH name... so that could be anywhere from 6 to 12 documents in total - 6 joint or 12 separate, or a combination of both.

In your case, you are submitting 5 joint documents and 2 separate documents to make it up to 6.

If you didn't have any joint documents at all, you would be submitting 12 documents to make up the 6 evenly spaced documents .

If that's not going to work then I guess I'll have to type up a letter trying to explain why, but imo it would be totally overkill and more paperwork that the immigration officer would have to shift through... plus I have no idea what I would write..

There's nothing to write. You meet their requirements exactly.

We pretty much live normal lives and kept most/if not all our mail, but after this visa... for up coming ILR, I'm going to go and open 5 different bank accounts and definitely not going green!  The gas/electricity bill is one company here and can only be in one name and not to mention they only send out 4 statements a year. There are no water bills because it's tied into council tax here and we hardly have any NHS letters thank goodness that we're healthy!

You really just need to save EVERYTHING and make sure you get paper statements for it all .

Remember you can still use gas/electricity bills for one of you, and then find something else for the other. If you have separate bank accounts as well as joint, bank statements are a good back-up for whichever month you need them for.

[P.S. You don't need to quote what the FLR(M) form says... I know it pretty much off by heart anyway]

GREAT

Thank you, yeah I was misinterpreting your "documents" with my definition of "items" but perfectly clear now, got there in the end lol.

Oh and I find it helpful for me to quote from official sources ie. FLR(M) just because you (or anybody else) would highlight right away if I'm misinterpreting something and/or referring to the wrong form/guide... BUT I'm glad you know it off by heart!  You're very helpful!  Thanks again

Oh and I find it helpful for me to quote from official sources ie. FLR(M) just because you (or anybody else) would highlight right away if I'm misinterpreting something and/or referring to the wrong form/guide... BUT I'm glad you know it off by heart!  You're very helpful!  Thanks again

No worries - I wasn't sure if you were telling me what was written there, or just quoting it for information .