Child visa-what to do after refusal

Well here's the new thread.

Situation :

Never married to father
Yes, he's on the bc
Not had contact in almost 8 years
I have never ever had to have any court ordered custody arrangement due to TN state law automatically giving me full custody.
I provided letters from dr and school. I provided the last court document from 2010 that was a order of protection and that also stated he couldn't talk to me until paternity was established (meaning he needed a dna test to confirm paternity)
I also provided the parenting plan for my other child that states in it that my daughter resides with me.

All that was noted in the refusal but i was still told that I didn't provide irrefutable evidence. I ran into this issue when getting her passport because obviously I couldn't have him sign permission.

I don't know how to contact him, dont even know where he is and frankly I don't want him to know anything about her. (he's a really terrible person)

No, I never got a letter from them, my husband got a response from his mp (super fast-definitely thankful for that) and she attached a copy of the refusal letter to her email.

Sigh.

Well here's the new thread.

Situation :

Never married to father
Yes, he's on the bc
Not had contact in almost 8 years
I have never ever had to have any court ordered custody arrangement due to TN state law automatically giving me full custody.
I provided letters from dr and school. I provided the last court document from 2010 that was a order of protection and that also stated he couldn't talk to me until paternity was established (meaning he needed a dna test to confirm paternity)
I also provided the parenting plan for my other child that states in it that my daughter resides with me.

All that was noted in the refusal but i was still told that I didn't provide irrefutable evidence. I ran into this issue when getting her passport because obviously I couldn't have him sign permission.

I don't know how to contact him, dont even know where he is and frankly I don't want him to know anything about her. (he's a really terrible person)

No, I never got a letter from them, my husband got a response from his mp (super fast-definitely thankful for that) and she attached a copy of the refusal letter to her email.

Sigh.

Okay, so you have the letter (through the MP).

I know it'll be a pain, but can you post it.  You could upload it here as a photo (through Tapatalk) or type it.  There may be something more to it.  Exclude identifying info of course.

We'll help you sort this!  Promise!

I'm guessing it will be to do with the Hague Convention? Like all countries that are a member of the Hague Convention, proof is required that the other parent agrees to their child moving to that country to stop international child abduction.

Here is a bit about what the Hague Convention is, on a US divorce site.
https://www.divorcenet.com/states/nationwide/child_custody_international_moves

Hi, sorry ive taken so long to come back to this.


This was what was quoted on grounds of refusal.


Eligibility   You  have  applied  to  accompany  your mother  who  is applying  for limited  leave  to  remain under Family  Migration  with  her husband  and  your step-father.    However, you  have  not provided  any  satisfactory  evidence  that  your sponsor has  had  and  continues to  have  sole responsibility  for your upbringing.  In  support  of  your application  your birth  certificate  has been  submitted  confirming  that  you  are  the  daughter of  ***  and ***.  A  headed  letter signed  in  the  name  of  ***,  principal of ***  City  School has also  been  submitted  which  states “you*  is currently  a student  at *** City School. Her  father  according  to  our records  and  to  the  best  of  our knowledge  isn’t involved  in  any  of  her scholastic activities.” A  letter  headed  in  the company  name  of  *** Pediatrics,  PLLC  has also  been  submitted  which  states “your mom*** is applying  for passport you*. ***  is your* mom  and  sole provider.”  A  permanent  parenting  plan  order  has also  been  submitted  relating  to provisions for the  care  of  your sibling  *** in  which  you  are listed  as living  at  the  address of  your mother *.  A  ***  County  court document  has  also  been submitted  which  s cites a  restraining  order upon your father* who  is stated  not approach  your mother*.  This  document  also  states in  relation  to  your custody “paternity  to  be  established.” From  the  information  submitted  in  this  application  I  am therefore not  satisfied  that  your  mother ***  has  sole  responsibility  for your care  and  as  a  result I  am  satisfied  as to  the  intentions of  this  application  submitted on  your behalf.  I  therefore refuse  your application  under  paragraph  E-ECCC.1.1  and  EECCC.1.6(b) of  Appendix  FM of  the  Immigration  Rules. 





Anyhow, yes I know about the Hague convention, but how am I supposed to contact someone I've not seen or heard from in over 7 years? How do I get a court order to prove something that already exists and have never needed a court order for? It's ridiculous. I've had this issue getting her passport, and once I submitted letters from school and her dr and called my congressman I was fine. This is baffling. She's MY child. Who else is she supposed to be living with while I'm approved to be in the UK?!

I think we're going to talk to an immigration lawyer here, find out what exactly the Home Office is looking for. I'm sure I'll be going back to the US soon to get this sorted in a courtroom somehow and we'll just have to reapply as the 28 day reappeal window is too narrow for us to make. Even more time and expense.

Its very disheartening and upsetting especially with the holidays looming.

Anyhow, yes I know about the Hague convention, but how am I supposed to contact someone I've not seen or heard from in over 7 years? How do I get a court order to prove something that already exists and have never needed a court order for? It's ridiculous. I've had this issue getting her passport, and once I submitted letters from school and her dr and called my congressman I was fine. This is baffling. She's MY child. Who else is she supposed to be living with while I'm approved to be in the UK?!

Thanks for posting the refusal.

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense... as you said, who else do they think has been caring for her if not you?

Though it looks like they have concluded that the permanent parenting order only confirms sole responsibility for your other child and not for your daughter (i.e. you have evidence of permanently caring for her brother, but for all they know, she may just be a temporary resident in your home). They probably wondered why you didn't provide a permanent parenting order specifically for your daughter.

Did you provide evidence that she lives with you? That you pay for her food and clothes? That you take her to things like doctor's appointments? That you are named as 'guardian/responsible parent' any activities she does? That she is registered as living at your address with the doctor, dentist, school, optician or any other organisations?

I think we're going to talk to an immigration lawyer here, find out what exactly the Home Office is looking for. I'm sure I'll be going back to the US soon to get this sorted in a courtroom somehow and we'll just have to reapply as the 28 day reappeal window is too narrow for us to make. Even more time and expense.

Be careful with this - many, many immigration lawyers don't know what they are talking about and have been known to give extremely bad advice, resulting in more visa refusals.

If you are going to talk to a lawyer, we only recommend two firms here on the forum:
- Medivisas (specifically Victoria or Beth), based in London
- Laura Devine, based in London and New York

Be careful with this - many, many immigration lawyers don't know what they are talking about and have been known to give extremely bad advice, resulting in more visa refusals.

If you are going to talk to a lawyer, we only recommend two firms here on the forum:
- Medivisas (specifically Victoria or Beth), based in London
- Laura Devine, based in London and New York

In fact, I might encourage you to skip the immigration lawyer approach, and go for a lawyer who is well experienced in custody orders / family law.  I think what you may need is a judge to confirm Tennessee state law: that because you were not married to your daughter's husband at any point, and he has never asserted or established paternity, it is the position of the state of Tennessee that you are the sole parent/caretaker, and so no custody order is necessary (an unusual default position these days!).  I suspect the refusal came because the lack of custody order, and the presence of a protection order against the father, caused the ECO to think you were trying to abscond with the child against the father's wishes.

I am curious about how the father was named on the birth certificate.  Did he at any point give written permission to be on the birth certificate, or did you name him as the father at the time of her birth?

He signed voluntarily, it's simply an acknowledgement of paternity and not anything granting him custody or responsibility rights within the state of TN. The whole 'paternity must be established' thing was a roundabout way of ordering a dna test and the judge telling him that he must apply to the juvenile court for parental rights, etc.

I wish you could freakin talk to the intake people while they're looking at your application.

Well, TN law is pretty clear on this point.

Absent an order of custody to the contrary, custody of a child born out of wedlock is with the mother.
https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2016/title-36/chapter-2/part-3/section-36-2-303/

If he elected to, the father could file a complaint to establish paternity under §36-2-305(b) (https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2016/title-36/chapter-2/part-3/section-36-2-305/).  I assume that's what the judge was telling the father he must do to assert parental rights, and I gather he never followed through with this.

I don't know how you demonstrate this to the ECO, other than getting a credible source (a judge would definitely qualify, but I don't know about a letter from your lawyer... could you try that?) to explain Tennessee law, and thus the lack of custody order.

He signed voluntarily, it's simply an acknowledgement of paternity and not anything granting him custody or responsibility rights within the state of TN.

In the UK, if an umarried mother allows the father of her baby to be put on the birth certificate and if he agrees to to his name going on, then that gives both parents joint rights.

Perhaps you need to show why he doesn't have joint rights, or prove that he will give his consent for his chlld to leave the country?

Would it be worth hiring a private investigator to track your ex down and get written consent?  Might not be difficult or costly in this digital age.  Then you'll know you have exactly what the ECO wants.

Would it be worth hiring a private investigator to track your ex down and get written consent?  Might not be difficult or costly in this digital age.  Then you'll know you have exactly what the ECO wants.

But this, though...

I don't want him to know anything about her. (he's a really terrible person)

I feel very badly for you, OP. This is a truly unfortunate situation. I wish there was an easier route out. Hopefully the board-recommended advisors will have some better ideas for you.

But this, though...

I feel very badly for you, OP. This is a truly unfortunate situation. I wish there was an easier route out. Hopefully the board-recommended advisors will have some better ideas for you.

Ah, missed that part!

Just thought I would let you guys know that I am having to go to court to get an order for full legal and physical custody of my daughter.

Nevermind that custody is both assumed in my home state (as well as the UK), that's what is required for her visa to be approved.

It's a fairly straightforward process, but costly and then I'll be reapplying for her visa once it's done.

Best of luck to anyone in the same situation.

Keep us posted.  There are a couple of applicants who could potentially be in the same situation.

I hope court moves quickly and easily - and cheaply!   

I just wanted to wish you all the best of luck, and I hope because he's not in the picture that the price may not be as horrible as going into a custody battle. Your posts helped me quite a bit, and I've been rooting for you