Visa Refused & have a few questions about reapplying

They did tighten the visitor visa rules a couple of years ago... not sure if that was before or after you travelled.
 
Ah, looks like it was in April 2015:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/new-immigration-rules-for-visitors-to-the-united-kingdom/

Lyonaria's was before the visit rule changes. She said she wasn't on UKY at the time and she joined in June 2014.

I would have applied for a visitor visa but wasn't sure about turn around time. It was literally a denial on Sept 5 and I flew out Oct 5. I wasn't on UKY at the time and didn't know if Ukvi's shown estimates were accurate.

Well we already had flights for Ireland booked for the 28th of this month so I'm afraid I won't have time to apply as Id have to send off my passport again

Why Ireland? That's often used to try to enter the UK via the backdoor (the CTA).

Being refused a spouse visa because you don't meet the finanial requirment and then trying to enter Ireland a couple of weeks later with your family, is going to raise a red flag. It will be up to the Irish immigration officer.

Also my wife is desperate to go home for Christmas but won't fly long haul again with our two babies,

If you are refused entry, will your wife be ok to make the journey from Ireland to east England on her own with two babies, or is it just long haul flights she needs help on?

Why don't you move your flights and just apply for a visitor visa for Christmas? That way you will know what will happen when you arrive and your wife won't have to worry about onward travel with two babies on her own.

Why Ireland? That's often used to try to enter the UK via the backdoor (the CTA).

Being refused a spouse visa because you don't meet the finanial requirment and then trying to enter Ireland a couple of weeks later with your family, is going to raise a red flag. It will be up to the Irish immigration officer.

If you are refused entry, will your wife be ok to make the journey from Ireland to east England on her own with two babies, or is it just long haul flights she needs help on?

Why don't you move your flights and just apply for a visitor visa for Christmas? That way you will know what will happen when you arrive and your wife won't have to worry about onward travel with two babies on her own.

I wasn't aware I couldn't travel to the republic of ireland either? We planned on spending Christmas there originally as her family could easily visit us there. Then she could fly back with them.  But her family wants me to at least try to fly from Dublin to Stansted so we can do Christmas at home. I'm worried we will not get back our visit visa in time as it says 15 working days

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I wasn't aware I couldn't travel to the republic of ireland either? We planned on spending Christmas there originally as her family could easily visit us there. Then she could fly back with them.  But her family wants me to at least try to fly from Dublin to Stansted so we can do Christmas at home.

There is no border between Ireland and the UK as that is part of the Common Travel Area. Ireland stamps visitors in for 3 months and that 3 months means they can also travel to the UK unchecked.

Which means Ireland is often used as a backdoor route to enter the UK and that is why the UK and Ireland now share immigration information. Refused a visa to the UK, can mean refusal of entry to Ireland. Look at it from their point of view, you have just been refused a visa to the UK and a couple of weeks later you are trying to enter Ireland and you want to enter the UK. It's a risk for you and it will be up to the Irish border officer/s.

I'm worried we will not get back our visit visa in time as it says 15 working days

15 working days for a visit visa, is plenty of time to get a visa for Christmas. UKVI does state that if you have been refused a visa then it is best to apply for a visa to visit before you travel, even if you are from a country that the UK allows to apply for a visit at the border. They also tell you not to book flights until you have a visa.

Or perhaps your wife's family could come to the US for Christmas this year?

Or as they are willing to have Christmas in Ireland, why not all spend Christmas together in another country (apart from Ireland) where Brits and US citizens don't need a visit visa before they travel?
 

Or, as you will likely have your visa in January anyway, because that is quick time of year, can you delay your Christmas in England for a few weeks?

I kinda have a random question about visiting the uk .. why do Americans get a 6 month stay in the U.K. .. yet the rest of the EU only 90 days .. never really understood that .. knowing the UK shares a boarder with the republic of Ireland .. yet when you go on the UK website it states Americans do not need a visa for a visit up to 6 months ..and that's all it says there's no rules when u go to see if you "  qualify " . I remember checking it out when I stayed for the summer on 2016 ... I was freaked out I wouldn't be let in at he uk boarder .. but they let me through .. after a few questions of course ... they did hold me for a good 20 .... but I did have all my information and a flight back to JFK on British airways ... I was very straight forward about everything .  I dunno just a random question that popped into my head while reading this ..

Now that I'm thinking about it as well you don't think that's a red flag on my passport .like she was stopped at the boarder and questioned .. .. they stamped it at Heathrow and just let me collect my bags and go .. or maybe I'm over thinking it .. in a worrier .. I know it's the worst to be ...

But I have been back to the uk 3 times after that with no problems what so ever then again I was only staying for a short period of time

I kinda have a random question about visiting the uk .. why do Americans get a 6 month stay in the U.K. .. yet he rest of the EU only 90 days .. never really understood that .. knowing the UK shares a boarder with the republic Ireland .. I dunno just a random question that popped into my head while reading this ..

Not sure, to be honest, but I imagine it has to do with the Schengen Zone within continental Europe.

Pretty much all of the EU countries are in the Schengen Zone and so presumably they all have to be 90 days because there there are no border/immigration controls between any of the countries, so they are just treated like one large area with the same visitor rules across the board.

The following countries are not in the EU, but are part of the Schengen Zone, so again have 90 days:
Iceland
Norway
Switzerland
Liechtenstein

And the following countries are in the process of joining the Schengen Zone, but are already 90 days anyway:
Bulgaria
Romania

The only EU countries that are not in the Schengen Zone are:
Croatia
Cyprus
Ireland
United Kingdom

So, those 4 countries are free to make their own visitor visa rules.
Croatia and Cyprus are 90 days and Ireland is 3 months... but the UK has decided on 6 months.

Having said that though, 3 months seems to be the standard visitor visa length across the majority of the world, at least for US citizens, with only a handful of countries allowing 6 months, and a few allowing less than 3 months.

I remember going through EU immigration in Iceland on my way to Germany and eu immigration IN AND out of Norway flying back from the UK .. thought I had two different flights flew in from standsted then was flying back to Boston ... it was cheaper doing it that way then a flight from London to the Us .. so I had to get my baggage and come back through in Oslo ... by the way beautiful airport but horribly ran ... just a side note

I remember going through EU immigration in Iceland on my way to Germany and eu immigration IN AND out of Norway flying back from the UK .. thought I had two different flights flew in from standsted then was flying back to Boston ... it was cheaper doing it that way then a flight from London to the Us .. so I had to get my baggage and come back through in Oslo ... by the way beautiful airport but horribly ran ... just a side note

Yeah, in some countries you have to go through immigration both when you enter and when you leave - that happened to me in both Italy and Germany, when I was travelling to/from the UK, as well as other countries around the world. In Luxembourg, I had to go to a different part of the airport for my gate because I wasn’t travelling within the Schengen zone.

When I flew to Rome in May, it was a few days before the G7 summit and they decided to lift the Schengen rules for 2 weeks, so that everyone travelling to/from Rome had to go through immigration going in and out the airport. It made no difference to me, coming from the UK, but everyone who was used to border free travel within the EU now had to show their ID cards/passports!


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I kinda have a random question about visiting the uk .. why do Americans get a 6 month stay in the U.K. .. yet he rest of the EU only 90 days .. never really understood that .. knowing the UK shares a boarder with the republic Ireland .. yet when you go on the UK website it states Americans do not need a visa for a visit up to 6 months ...

I have no idea why the UK allows up to 6 months and the rest of the world only seems to allow 3 months. Most of the border officers on other sites say that not many can get 6 months off work.

But as ksand said, the visitor rules changed in 2015 to stop the abuse.

The non-visa nationals that arrive at the border asking to visit can now be limited with the time they are allowed to visit. i.e. the UK border officer may only stamp them in for say two weeks. This was done to stop those who lie to the officers to gain entry when they plan to stay for longer, knowing that if they had declared that they wanted to stay longer then they would have been refused entry. Until the rule change, the UK border officers only gave a 6 month visit stamp, but now they can give less.

With those that apply for a visa to visit, they get 6 months, but in their application these too must now declare how long they will stay. Which means we now see people getting refused another visa to the UK as they stayed longer than they declared they would in their application, even though they left before the 6 months was up.  They didn’t overstay, but they were not honest in their application. If they had an accident and were in hospital and couldn't leave when they said they would, then they are allowed another visit visa, as long as they have paid their NHS bill

Even those on long term visit visas, now have their visa cancelled at the border as they are staying longer than they tell the border officer when they entered on that visa before. Plus they are not allowed to use that visa to live in the UK  i.e. 5 and half months visit, 6 and half months back home, 5/6 months in the UK again etc as that too will see their visa cancelled at the border when they try to use that visa to enter again.

Interesting .. so why not just put all countries on a " must apply " for visa .. I mean I know people who have been in the us over a visa stay and wonder how they just float in and out .. that are from other countries but yet u have to apply for an esta and pay ... even people from the UK and Ireland ... but if people lying to boarder control is the issues why not have them stamped in and out of the country to help solve the problem .. I dunno if it's true heard the uk may start doing this soon

Also say if you land in Ireland and stay in Ireland for the max of 90 days then fly to the uk and decide I'm gonna travel around for over 90 days because it says I can stay for 6 months I mean  technically you're in a different country right ? So how does that all work ? You're still following the rules of each country and not over staying ..
I dunno it just is all crazy to me

I remember checking it out when I stayed for the summer on 2016 ... I was freaked out I wouldn't be let in at he uk boarder .. but they let me through .. after a few questions of course ... they did hold me for a good 20 .... but I did have all my information and a flight back to JFK on British airways ... I was very straight forward about everything .  I dunno just a random question that popped into my head while reading this ..

Now that I'm thinking about it as well you don't think that's a red flag on my passport .like she was stopped at the boarder and questioned .. .. they stamped it at Heathrow and just let me collect my bags and go .. or maybe I'm over thinking it .. in a worrier .. I know it's the worst to be ...

But I have been back to the uk 3 times after that with no problems what so ever then again I was only staying for a short period of time

You will have a good immigration history as that will show that you are an honest person as you always leave when you say you will. There is no need to worry. The UK rule changes came in to catch the dishonest people.

Interesting .. so why not just put all countries on a " must apply " for visa .. I mean I know people who have been in the us over a visa stay and wonder how they just float in and out .. that are from other countries but yet u have to apply for an esta and pay ... even people from the UK and Ireland ... but if people lying to boarder control is the issues why not have them stamped in and out of the country to help solve the problem .. I dunno if it's true heard the uk may start doing this soon

Start doing what soon? I’m not quite sure what you are talking about.

US immigration is pretty strict - you can’t just come and go, especially if you have overstayed... you either enter the US using ESTA, or you have to apply for a visa in advance, which costs about $140, involves an in-person interview and can take a few months to get.

Also say if you land in Ireland and stay in Ireland for the max of 90 days then fly to the uk and decide I'm gonna travel around for over 90 days because it says I can stay for 6 months I mean  technically you're in a different country right ? So how does that all work ?
I dunno it just is all crazy to me

If you enter through Ireland, your visa is issued in Ireland and it covers you for the UK as well... that means you are limited to a combined total stay of 3 months maximum... because if you go over to the UK, you do not get issued with a 6-month visa, you are just using your allowed 3 months to spend some time in the UK.

If you were to do as you suggest, you would become an illegal overstayer in the UK (and in Ireland) when you reached 3 months and 1 day.

The 6 months in the UK is not automatic ... you have to go through UK  immigration and be issued with a visitor visa stamp stating you have permission to stay for up to 6 months.

If you enter through Ireland, you will not get that 6-month visa because you already have a 3-month visa to travel in Ireland and the UK.


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Meant to stamp people in and out of boarder control like the EU does when u come you're stamped and when you exit you're stamped

Meant to stamp people in and out of boarder control like the EU does when u come you're stamped and when you exit you're stamped

While not physically stamped in and out, there is an electronic record.

 I was wondering how they did all that .. I didn't know if it goes by stamp or is there a database .. I know all countries are differ though I dunno it's just interesting to me how so many countries have different rules ..