Visa Refused & have a few questions about reapplying

Interesting .. so why not just put all countries on a " must apply " for visa .

Everyone applies for a visa to visit (unless they are British or are using EU laws) but citizens of some countries can apply for entry at the border.

Interestingly, EEA citizens and their non-EEA citizen family members are only allowed 3 months to visit the UK, as that is what the EU states. They don't get the up to 6 months under UK rules. If they overstay their visit, then they are in breach of UK immgiration rules - they are not using EEA rules and don't have permission to be in the UK under UK immigration rules.

Even some who get say a work visa for the UK have to report to the police when they arrive and tell the police as soon as  they change address, if they are a country where the UK requires that. Citizens of the other countries who have a UK visa, do not have to report to the police.

In some EEA countries, they require all EEA citizens and their family members to register with the police it they are going to use the EU's free movement in their country.

Also say if you land in Ireland and stay in Ireland for the max of 90 days then fly to the uk and decide I'm gonna travel around for over 90 days because it says I can stay for 6 months I mean  technically you're in a different country right ? So how does that all work ?
I dunno it just is all crazy to me

If you enter via Ireland, then you omly have 90 days to visit the Ireland and the UK. You can't then travel to the UK from Ireland and get up to another 6 months. There is no border bewteen Ireland and the UK and your 90 days that the Irish gave you, is for the UK too. 

If you enter via the UK, then you get up to 6 months to visit the UK and Ireland. But remenber that the UK border officer doesn't have to give you 6 months as they could stamp you in for less time.

EDIT ksand beat me to it.

Meant to stamp people in and out of boarder control like the EU does when u come you're stamped and when you exit you're stamped

The UK has exit controls too even if they leave by ferry or train, but there is no border between the UK and Ireland as that is part of the Common Travel Area.

So if you entered the UK via and Ireland and then left, the UK would know if you had overstayed that 90 days. As Ireland and the UK share immigraion history, Ireland would also know that you had overstayed their visa, even if you didn't exit via Ireland.

Ahh ok .. I never left the uk on a train or boat .. only in the air .though I still find it weird how the uk and Ireland share boarder control with no boarder and different rules .. just like Western Europe and a lot of earthen Europe do the same . But I guess it is what it is

I remember going to Canada when I was younger all the time .. pre 9/11 then only have to flash my US  license  and that was about it  .. they could of cared less heading across the boarder and I remember Canadians would come across the boarder just to shop and then go home and be back the following few days . but now u need a full on passport .. same goes with Mexico ...  now it's a pain in the neck to cross over ... u get searched questioned .. how times have changed

though I still find it weird how the uk and Ireland share boarder control with no boarder and different rules .. just like Western Europe and a lot of earthen Europe do the same . But I guess it is what it is

That because the UK/Irish agreement was in place long before an EU was even thought of.

I was wondering how they did all that .. I didn't know if it goes by stamp or is there a database .. I know all countries are differ though I dunno it's just interesting to me how so many countries have different rules ..

For exit checks, the airlines also tell the Home Office who will be on their planes. Ferries and trains have a different system to advise the Home Office.


Even EEA citizens who the EU say are not meant to have their passport stamped by the UK when they enter of exit, have found when they applied for their SAR (the information the UK have on them) that the Home Office had a record of when they exited or entered the UK.

So if the airlines tell the home office who is on their planes shouldn't come they also tell the person if they are able to fly to a said country they may be refused to enter for an overstay or another reason ... shouldn't all that come up when your passport is scanned at the airport ? If there's a red flag .. Why do they let people still fly ?! It's like hey I'll take your money even though I know u can't enter that country but that sucks for you .. have a nice flight

So if the airlines tell the home office who is on their planes shouldn't come they also tell the person if they are able to fly to a said country they may be refused to enter for an overstay or another reason ... shouldn't all that come up when your passport is scanned at the airport ? If there's a red flag .. Why do they let people still fly ?! It's like hey I'll take your money even though I know u can't enter that country but that sucks for you .. have a nice flight

The airlines have to ensure that person might be able to enter that country. If they need a visa, then they shouldn't let them fly if they don't have a visa or else the airline gets fined.

At the border, the country decides if they will let them in. It's like your Canada example: as a US citizen you don't need a visa but Canada can refuse you entry at the border. 

So if the airlines tell the home office who is on their planes shouldn't come they also tell the person if they are able to fly to a said country they may be refused to enter for an overstay or another reason ... shouldn't all that come up when your passport is scanned at the airport ? If there's a red flag .. Why do they let people still fly ?! It's like hey I'll take your money even though I know u can't enter that country but that sucks for you .. have a nice flight

As far as I know, the airlines just give the Home Office your API (Advance Passenger Information) that you enter when you book your flight (your name, passport number, passport expiry etc.). It's then the Home Office who go through the lists given to them by the airlines so they can see if anyone has overstayed or stayed longer than they said.

See here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exit-checks-on-passengers-leaving-the-uk/exit-checks-fact-sheet

I don't think the airlines have access to any information about your travel or immigration history though - just your passport details and whether or not you have a visa... so they wouldn't necessarily know if there's a red flag.

For flights to the US, they do check that everyone either has a US passport, a visa, or an ESTA when you check in, because you won't be able to enter the US without one of them (the ESTA is essentially your landing card, which has to be filled out online before you travel).

For flights to the US, they do check that everyone either has a US passport, a visa, or an ESTA when you check in, because you won't be able to enter the US without one of them (the ESTA is essentially your landing card, which has to be filled out online before you travel).

On the flip side, I am always asked for my UK visa at the airport when I check in for my flights as there is no evidence of a return to the US on their system.  My airport is teeny so I don't know if this is done at other locations but I would imagine it is.

You have all been great help! We went ahead and cancelled our Ireland flights as we don't want to risk it (booked them with air miles so was free to cancel). I am going to go ahead with the Visit visa and hope for the best.

As far as reapplying goes though, last time we used the Visa Office and obviously that didn't work out well. We plan on doing everything our selves this time and want to get started in advance. We will be using my Medical Retirement from the military as our income. I will get the first payment on Dec 1st so we can't apply until the 29th of Dec ( we will most likely apply right after new year). But I am wondering how we will document that, since its a medical retirement all my income will come monthly from the VA so I am wondering what I will need to show? Also should we just show that? Our last advisor had us send in a ton of unnecessary documents so I want it to be straight forward as possible.

I will be getting $39,335.04 annually for my retirement

also we have rented out our house which gives us another $1305 a month.

We also have savings but mostly in a 401K and a Vanguard brokerage account, Should we include these as well if the VA money is already enough?

Thanks Again!

By the way all of this income will be mine, my wife the Sponsor is a stay at home mum (works much harder than I do!)

You have all been great help! We went ahead and cancelled our Ireland flights as we don't want to risk it (booked them with air miles so was free to cancel). I am going to go ahead with the Visit visa and hope for the best.

As far as reapplying goes though, last time we used the Visa Office and obviously that didn't work out well. We plan on doing everything our selves this time and want to get started in advance. We will be using my Medical Retirement from the military as our income. I will get the first payment on Dec 1st so we can't apply until the 29th of Dec ( we will most likely apply right after new year). But I am wondering how we will document that, since its a medical retirement all my income will come monthly from the VA so I am wondering what I will need to show? Also should we just show that? Our last advisor had us send in a ton of unnecessary documents so I want it to be straight forward as possible.

I will be getting $39,335.04 annually for my retirement

also we have rented out our house which gives us another $1305 a month.

We also have savings but mostly in a 401K and a Vanguard brokerage account, Should we include these as well if the VA money is already enough?

Thanks Again!

Here is the pension info.

.(e) To evidence a pension:
(i) Official documentation from:
(1) The Department for Work and Pensions (in respect of the Basic State Pension and the Additional or Second State Pension) or other government department or agency, including the Veterans Agency;
(2) An overseas pension authority; or
(3) A pension company,
confirming pension entitlement and amount (and, where applicable, reflecting any funds withdrawn from the pension account or fund).
(ii) At least one personal bank statement in the 12-month period prior to the date of application showing payment of the pension into the person’s account.
(iii) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (i), War Disablement Pension, War Widow’s/Widower’s Pension and any other pension or equivalent payment for life made under the War Pensions Scheme, the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme or the Armed Forces Attributable Benefits Scheme may be treated as a pension, unless excluded under paragraph 21 of this Appendix.

If that calculates out to be more than £18.6k which it looks like it will, then no need to provide any other income.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

By the way all of this income will be mine, my wife the Sponsor is a stay at home mum (works much harder than I do!)

Because yours is retirement income which will continue once you go to the UK, then this is permissible. Using your employment income was not.

Because yours is retirement income which will continue once you go to the UK, then this is permissible. Using your employment income was not.

Yea we mistakenly listened to an immigration advisor last time that turned out to be a con! Thanks again though and im sure ill have a bunch more questions before we apply again

Yea we mistakenly listened to an immigration advisor last time that turned out to be a con! Thanks again though and im sure ill have a bunch more questions before we apply again

It's tricky with immigration advisors and lawyers - I think a lot of them can be well-meaning, but the problem is that they just aren't familiar enough with the rules and the application process to actually give good advice.

As a result, we only recommend 2 immigration lawyers here on the forum - one is based in London, the other in both London and New York... and they specialise in US to UK settlement visa applications. However, they are expensive and really, you don't need to use them unless you have serious reason to believe the visa will be refused - for example, a bad UK immigration history or serious criminal convictions.

All the information you need to make successful application can be found for free online - either from the UKVI website, or from our experiences here on the forum - it's just knowing where to look that can be the tricky part.

But we're happy to help you with gathering the documents, pointing you in the direction of the official information, and answering any questions you have .