Author Topic: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights  (Read 781 times)

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Offline sonofasailor

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Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« on: December 08, 2017, 07:04:12 AM »
"The rights of EU citizens living in the United Kingdom and United Kingdom citizens in the EU27 will remain the same after the United Kingdom has left the EU."

From Commission statement

Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across - Sun Tzu


Offline sonofasailor

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 09:49:17 AM »
Looks like Norway.
Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across - Sun Tzu

Offline F4mandolin

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2017, 10:28:10 AM »
Pound is down vs the Dollar just a little.....I kind of thought it would edge up a little.
Fred

Offline historyenne

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2017, 12:26:20 PM »
So does that mean that if I move to France before the official exit then I'd be able to stay there under EU law? Might be worth considering.
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Offline jfkimberly

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2017, 02:23:16 PM »
Pound is down vs the Dollar just a little.....I kind of thought it would edge up a little.

I'm surprised too.... all week it was red 'til last night when they said they had a draft deal on the border.  So with today's news, I expected a massive green candle.  I give up trying to predict the market.   ::)
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
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8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
Now just waiting out the clock for ILR.

Offline F4mandolin

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2017, 03:08:59 PM »
I'm surprised too.... all week it was red 'til last night when they said they had a draft deal on the border.  So with today's news, I expected a massive green candle.  I give up trying to predict the market.   ::)
Yep...once I had enough money to retire....I took everything out of risky stuff. I'm probably one of the few people on this site that likes a low Pound.....at least for another 4 years until I move the last of my retirement account over to the UK. The finance world seems to make even the experts look silly on a regular basis.
Fred

Offline jfkimberly

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2017, 04:44:57 PM »
Yep...once I had enough money to retire....I took everything out of risky stuff. I'm probably one of the few people on this site that likes a low Pound.....at least for another 4 years until I move the last of my retirement account over to the UK. The finance world seems to make even the experts look silly on a regular basis.

The only events I've called right are the EU referendum (after the first two or three authorities reported, I could see which way it was going, and wanted to short the pound, but was too new back then to actually have the guts to do it), Trump's inauguration (I made some money on the dollar's drop that weekend), and June's general election result.  The market moved the way I expected with those three major events.  Everything else has been anybody's guess, as far as I'm concerned.  Even when the BoE raised the interest rate, the market didn't think it was good enough.  I mean, that's as fundamental as you can get, and it still didn't go as expected.
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
Now just waiting out the clock for ILR.

Offline F4mandolin

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2017, 05:40:38 PM »
The only events I've called right are the EU referendum (after the first two or three authorities reported, I could see which way it was going, and wanted to short the pound, but was too new back then to actually have the guts to do it), Trump's inauguration (I made some money on the dollar's drop that weekend), and June's general election result.  The market moved the way I expected with those three major events.  Everything else has been anybody's guess, as far as I'm concerned.  Even when the BoE raised the interest rate, the market didn't think it was good enough.  I mean, that's as fundamental as you can get, and it still didn't go as expected.
I still like this quote.....
The market.....it will go up.....unless it goes down.....
Fred

Offline jfkimberly

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2017, 06:12:50 PM »
I still like this quote.....
The market.....it will go up.....unless it goes down.....

Yup.  Investors are tricksy folk.  You can never tell which way they'll go.
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
Now just waiting out the clock for ILR.

Offline durhamlad

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2017, 01:03:44 PM »
I'm probably one of the few people on this site that likes a low Pound.....

Count me among the few  ;)

I have a couple of small private pensions, and in a few years my wife and I will be getting our OAP, but the vast majority of our income comes from our US pensions and retirement accounts.
Adventure before dementia

Offline heidiandrobert

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2017, 04:41:15 PM »
I'm surprised too.... all week it was red 'til last night when they said they had a draft deal on the border.  So with today's news, I expected a massive green candle.  I give up trying to predict the market.   ::)

 ;D

It's easy to imagine that "markets" have minds of their own.  Pithy market sayings like, "Buy the rumour, sell the fact," abound.

I, too, benefit when the GBP (£) is weak.  It has been a good bet long term.  Ten years ago the GBP was US$2.06; now it's just under $1.34.  This year the bet hasn't been as favourable. We nearly touched a low of $1.20 in January before the GBP began to rebound from its post-Brexit tumble.  My US savings (and pension when it starts in 2019) are denominated in USD, so things cost more now than they did in January.  I imagine many people on this site are in the same position. (Thank goodness I bought Heidi's engagement ring in February when Sterling was only £1.22!)

It appears to me the GBP is in a very long term bear market in which this year's strength is a "bear market rally." We may have another month or two of the Pound rising against the dollar before it drops again for years.  That's just my guess.  The Exchequer and BoE have been driving the Pound down intentionally for years.

Beyond living expenses, currency fluctuations also affect people who are applying for visas on the basis of savings who hold those savings in USD or other currencies.  In my case, I set aside USD savings in January equal to £62,500 plus extra to allow for some appreciation of the Pound. That US-based account was enough for the fiancé visa applied for in July.  It's not enough for the spouse visa we go for next week.

Here's something we just learned about visas and exchange rates.

The fiancé visa is applied for outside the country, of course, so they FIX the Pound value of foreign savings as of the date you apply. It doesn't matter if your currency plummets against the Pound after that.

We're applying for the spouse visa from inside the UK, so the rule is different. The exchange rate is NOT FIXED.  In our case, we'll be making in-person application at the Sheffield office.  UKVI will determine the Pound value of my previously-documented US savings ON THE DAY we appear, but the account will almost certainly be worth less than the £62,500 requirement (unless the Pound drops considerably in the next week).  We have had to document other savings because of it which, fortunately, we're able to do.  Remember, you can't just add more money to your savings account; all your savings have to be traceable - seasoned in your accounts - for the last six months or longer.

If your savings are borderline, I suggest you don't take the risk of falling short come the day of your application.  One easy option you have to eliminate exchange rate risk is to bring your savings to the UK when the exchange rate yields at least £62,500 after the conversion.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 05:10:06 PM by heidiandrobert »
Arrived UK as visitor 21 January 2017
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Solicitor applied fiancé visa online - June 23rd ish
Biometrics appt San Fran - 14th July
Passport arrived with solicitor - 17th July
'Box' package sent to Sheffield by solicitor same day - arrived 18th July
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Decision email received - 11th September (38bd)
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Offline ksand24

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2017, 05:15:29 PM »
Here's something we just learned about visas and exchange rates.

The fiancé visa is applied for outside the country, of course, so they FIX the Pound value of foreign savings as of the date you apply. It doesn't matter if your currency plummets against the Pound after that.

We're applying for the spouse visa from inside the UK, so the rule is different. The exchange rate is NOT FIXED.  In our case, we'll be making in-person application at the Sheffield office.  UKVI will determine the Pound value of my previously-documented US savings ON THE DAY we appear, but the account will almost certainly be worth less than the £62,500 (unless the Pound drops considerably in the next week).

The rules aren't different if you apply in the UK - the exchange rate is not fixed for either application.

The exchange rate is calculated as being the Oanda rate on the date of your application, regardless of which country you apply from. The only difference is how the 'date of application' is determined.

- In the US, your application date is the date you submit the online application and pay for the visa... so they take the exchange rate on that date.

- In the UK, your application date is either the date you mail your documents or the date you attend an in-person appointment... so they take the exchange rate on that date.

From Appendix FM-SE, which applies to all applications, made both outside and inside the UK:

(f) Income or cash savings in a foreign currency will be converted to pounds sterling using the closing spot exchange rate which appears on www.oanda.com* on the date of application.

(https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence)
 
Quote
If your savings are borderline, I suggest you don't take the risk of falling short come the day of your application.  One easy option you have to eliminate exchange rate risk is to bring your savings to the UK when the exchange rate yields at least £62,500 after the conversion.

Or, another option is that you don't apply in-person and instead save the £590 so you can try to mail your application on a date when the exchange rate is favourable.

With the FLR(M) processing times being pretty fast at the moment, there's not really much benefit in applying in person unless you need your passport back urgently.

Offline F4mandolin

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 05:23:38 PM »
ksand talked me out of going for the quick service choice......probably a waste of money.....which I am liable to blow on a new computer instead (thanks ksand). Some people get nervous about the procedure though.....and I can see why they would want the answer quickly.

I made sure I didn't have to worry about being on the £62,500 limit......I made sure my account had well over that in it. Just easier for me that way......and then I don't have to prove my pension income as well. As soon as the visa gets ok'd I'm likely to stick that money into a 1 year bond.....likely through the post office which gets 1.36%.......better than what I am getting through the bank.
Fred

Offline heidiandrobert

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Re: Brexit agreement - EU citizens rights
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2017, 05:24:23 PM »
The rules aren't different if you apply in the UK - the exchange rate is not fixed for either application.

The exchange rate is calculated as being the Oanda rate on the date of your application, regardless of which country you apply from. The only difference is how the 'date of application' is determined.

Thanks for the clarification. I was recounting how our solicitor explained it, more or less.
Arrived UK as visitor 21 January 2017
Proposed 22 January
Solicitor applied fiancé visa online - June 23rd ish
Biometrics appt San Fran - 14th July
Passport arrived with solicitor - 17th July
'Box' package sent to Sheffield by solicitor same day - arrived 18th July
Arrived in Sheffield email - 19th July
Decision email received - 11th September (38bd)
Packaged collected - 11th September
Packaged delivered to Florida - 13th September
Arrived UK - 20th September
MARRIED - 01 November 2017