Problem with getting records for expunged/dissmissed charges

(waves real big)

Thanks for the previous help with this problem! Here's the update and yet another question. We need to figure out how to get you guys some kind of Frequent Flyer miles type of appreciation program for all this  ;0)

Apparently I can't get copies of an expunged record of charges from my CoC. I did ask if there was anything like a letter stating that I could not get a copy because the record is expunged, and explained why I needed it, and the clerks gave me the hairy eyeball and told me in so many words that I was being paranoid, and that my case didn't count as criminal anyway because the charges were dismissed. Buh-bye now, next person in line please step up.

I'm not going to get either from them. This place runs on small town tribalism; complaining to anyone else at the courthouse is a not a good idea. Calling the state AG office and asking what else I can do hasn't gotten anywhere either. What if I note that I was told I can't get those records or confirmation of such and supply contact information for the CoC?

Simply write a short and to the point explanation in a cover letter or the additional information area.  Address the charge and that you have been unable to obtain any records as there are no records.

It's just about disclosing and being transparent.  It'll be fine!   

This post doesn't add any value, I'm afraid. Just pure curiosity!

What does "CoC" mean? I googled it and got "contempt of court" as the abbreviation, but that doesn't seem to fit. County Court(house)?

Again, just curious as I'd never seen it before. Thanks.

I’m assuming it’s Clerk of Courts.  They hold the records.

Ah, okay. Thanks for that. We don't have that exact term/abbreviation in California (e.g., Los Angeles County Registrar-Recorder (RR) or County Clerk (CC) instead).

Different state, different lingo I guess.

This post doesn't add any value, I'm afraid. Just pure curiosity!

What does "CoC" mean? I googled it and got "contempt of court" as the abbreviation, but that doesn't seem to fit. County Court(house)?

Again, just curious as I'd never seen it before. Thanks.

CoC = Clerk of Court. It does double duty as the name for the admin department of records for all court proceedings and the title of the principle officer for that department. Junior clerks just get called "clerks of the court", with smaller letters and smaller desks.

 It could be noted that I have, actually, had quite a bit of contempt for a court here, so your find is not absolutely implausible  ;0)

Simply write a short and to the point explanation in a cover letter or the additional information area.  Address the charge and that you have been unable to obtain any records as there are no records.

It's just about disclosing and being transparent.  It'll be fine!   

Thanx muchly for the input' will do. (salutes)

I have gotten a bit on the side of paranoid about this one; I've run into enough people that've said "why would anyone say something like that unless it were true?" that I wish I'd at least kept the testimony from the police officer and the reports about them doing the same trick to other people. It's highly frustrating that something that was dismissed and expunged can still come back to screw up my life.

Just curious sillybadger... Did they ask you for the docs from the court? I'm wondering if that is my hold up.

Thanx muchly for the input' will do. (salutes)

I have gotten a bit on the side of paranoid about this one; I've run into enough people that've said "why would anyone say something like that unless it were true?" that I wish I'd at least kept the testimony from the police officer and the reports about them doing the same trick to other people. It's highly frustrating that something that was dismissed and expunged can still come back to screw up my life.

I don’t see what the issue is.

- you give details of what happened and state it was expunged
- you provide your current police/court record showing nothing on it, which proves what you said is true

There’s nothing to screw anything up because there’s nothing on your record that could affect your visa.

What could cause problems is if you don’t declare the expunged convictions and then UKVI found out you had them and didn’t mention them - that could be seen as deception, which could lead to a 10-year ban from the UK.

But by declaring everything and stating there are no records because they were expunged won’t cause any issues... if they look into it, they will find the same thing.


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Just curious sillybadger... Did they ask you for the docs from the court? I'm wondering if that is my hold up.

No, they didn't ask me for anything other than my name, address, and the status of the case. The Clerk of Court's office keeps all the court documents for any proceeding that's happened under county authority; that's why I'm trying to get copies of docs I don't have from them.

It's kind of more the hold up that I asked for something they don't see every day.

I don’t see what the issue is.

- you give details of what happened and state it was expunged
- you provide your current police/court record showing nothing on it, which proves what you said is true

There’s nothing to screw anything up because there’s nothing on your record that could affect your visa.

What could cause problems is if you don’t declare the expunged convictions and then UKVI found out you had them and didn’t mention them - that could be seen as deception, which could lead to a 10-year ban from the UK.

But by declaring everything and stating there are no records because they were expunged won’t cause any issues... if they look into it, they will find the same thing.


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I had the impression that full disclosure meant "include evidence that shows what you're saying is accurate". That seems to be the rule for a lot of the info on the application. On the previous convo where I asked about this, Sundance made the suggestion that some CoCs will give people a letter stating that they can't produce the record because the case was expunged, and I figured I'd give that a shot because it would be showing some acknowledgement from an official entity that I wasn't misrepresenting myself.

Since the appearance of falsifying my information can apparently keep me from being able to migrate for a decade at the least, and having my application refused or put in the "not straightforward" pile will cause me more problems, I think the issue is that there's plenty to screw up.

Just to confirm, are you gathering documents in preparation of making your application, or have you applied already and have been specifically asked by Sheffield to supply these documents?

Since the appearance of falsifying my information can apparently keep me from being able to migrate for a decade at the least, and having my application refused or put in the "not straightforward" pile will cause me more problems, I think the issue is that there's plenty to screw up.

In this case, you disclose it on the application, state that it has been expunged and then provide your police record. If the police record no longer has anything on it, then it shows that it has been expunged, and that you are telling the truth.

Ideally you would also provide your original court documents issued at the time of the conviction, but if you no longer have them and cannot get hold of them, then there's nothing you can do about that. You just have to explain in your cover letter that you don't have them and the court won't issue copies or a letter.

Since your police record will show no evidence of a conviction, then there will be no grounds for them to refuse the visa

I don't see any reason why they would think you are lying about anything... after all, no one is going to say they had a criminal conviction, if they never had one in the first place!

Are you overthinking this sillybadger? 

To try to put your mind at ease, here are three scenarios:

Scenario 1:
- applicant has a minor criminal conviction from 10 years ago. It won't affect the application in any way, but they are worried it will
- so, they don't mention it on the application form because they think it will harm their case. They tick NO to criminal convictions.
- UKVI do a quick check in their system and discover that they do in fact have a criminal conviction, but they neglected to disclose it
- their visa is refused due to deception and they are banned from the UK for 10 years

Scenario 2:
- same person as in scenario 1, but they tick YES to criminal convictions, disclose the minor conviction and provide their police record which shows the conviction
- UKVI check and find the record is correct
- the conviction is not cause for refusal
- the visa is granted

Scenario 3:
- same person as in scenario 1, but their conviction has been expunged
- to show they are being honest, they tick YES to criminal convictions, disclose the minor conviction and provide their police record which shows there is no conviction anymore (it has been expunged)
- they explain that they no longer have the court records and cannot get any copies due to the conviction being expunged, and the court won't write a letter
- UKVI check and there is no record of a conviction, therefore there is no cause for refusal.
- the applicant has been honest, so no deception has been used
- the visa is granted

Just to confirm, are you gathering documents in preparation of making your application, or have you applied already and have been specifically asked by Sheffield to supply these documents?


In this case, you disclose it on the application, state that it has been expunged and then provide your police record. If the police record no longer has anything on it, then it shows that it has been expunged, and that you are telling the truth.

Ideally you would also provide your original court documents issued at the time of the conviction, but if you no longer have them and cannot get hold of them, then there's nothing you can do about that. You just have to explain in your cover letter that you don't have them and the court won't issue copies or a letter.

Since your police record will show no evidence of a conviction, then there will be no grounds for them to refuse the visa

I don't see any reason why they would think you are lying about anything... after all, no one is going to say they had a criminal conviction, if they never had one in the first place!

No, I'm getting the last of the documents together. I'm rather trying to avoid the latter scenario.
 
I had the impression that I had to furnish records about the case, not just what my criminal record says, since my criminal record says nothing about it.

My experience with pretty much every bureaucratic office I've ever dealt with has been that they do expect everyone to be lying or trying to get away with something, much the same way a lot of law enforcement officers will tell you that there are no innocents, just perps that haven't been caught. They also don't really listen or may much attention to the data they're given if it's not what they expect to see.

The best way so far to avoid hassles and delays has been to not give anyone anything like the means to go with that. That means having all the Ts crossed and Is dotted, and some kind of documentation proof other than just my own say-so. Honestly, there's not much I read on here that leads me to believe that UKVI is dramatically different.

All I asked was if I couldn't get what I was told I should get before, if Plan B was a good idea. I don't get why asking is a problem.