Poll: Effect of the new immigration rules on UK-Y

The average salary in the UK is something around £25-26K depending on your source.  Even for people who are new to the workforce (under 1 year), the average salary is  over £19,000.  £18,600 is most certainly not super-rich.   

Exactly - I've only been part of the graduate workforce for 20 months and I earn over £18,600 (my starting salary was £18,000 which increased to £22,000 after training and I also get shift pay because I work nights and weekends)... but I am by no means rich. I have a student loan debt of over £16,000 and I'm renting a house because I can't afford to own one.

Of all my friends, only 2 of them wouldn't meet the £18,600 minimum requirement for sponsoring a visa (and none of them are doctors or lawyers)... one earns less than this in her retail job and the other is a student finishing up his PhD (but he's more than likely to secure a job paying more than £18,600 after he graduates).

If for some reason, (highly unlikely), I was going on a spousal visa in July and beyond we'd be OK on J's salary. (Though he's not had a raise in 5 years, small business, bad economy, he's lucky to have a job in his field.).  Though, I think though I'd be an 'in-country switcher' or something like that though, so we can take into account my earnings?     However, if I were moving over from another country to be with a spouse, it would seem silly not to take into account my earnings, as I am by far the bread winner of our relationship. 

I agree with several people here, ...£18,600 isn't super rich, it's actually less than £10 an hour without overtime, when I was 16 I worked totally unskilled retail and I made £7ish an hour (admittedly this was in an all night garage) , and made double time on evenings after 10pm and weekends.

Yes for many people, it's not something they make now, but excluding those who have very specific disability or childcare related issues, it is an achievable sum of money to earn, within a timescale of five years.

There's a difference between not being able to be together "now" and never being able to be together. Many of the examples that come up where people are below the level, the couples are very young, your earning power at 18 is vastly inferior to your earning power at 25, or above. For those under the level at the moment, I'd say that keeping the faith is important, and sacrifices may need to be made, many people on here have endured years of long distance whilst they saved and worked hard to further their careers in order to be together and it's just one of the things you have to consider when entering a relationship with someone from abroad.

I said "no" but not sure that would of been the case.  My DH is disabled and gets the High DLA plus income from several family trusts so not sure, although I thought I read someplace that he would be exempt from the financial?  I would hate to guess and maybe I miss read that part.....We are both retired and have no dependent children and are older.  I do agree with what Cheesebiscuit says.  I guess at my age I would have figured out what to do, even if it meant getting him to America.  Like has been said before don't lose hope and keep the faith.   I wish everyone only happiness in their journeys.......

The average salary in the UK is something around £25-26K depending on your source.  Even for people who are new to the workforce (under 1 year), the average salary is  over £19,000.  £18,600 is most certainly not super-rich.   

I obviously agree it's not just the "super-rich" who earn more than £18,600 but I'd say it does rule out a high percentage of the country.  Mainly the young and old without savings I'd think.  There's certainly going to be a huge North/South devide though.  Remember above national average wages are earned by relativly few in the North.

Is it possible it may end up descriminating against women as they're more likely to have to stay at home to look after a child, their husband in the US could earn a fortune and have great career prospects but have no chance under the new rules.

their husband in the US could earn a fortune and have great career prospects but have no chance under the new rules.

But they've kind of got around this by saying if the US applicant can earn that much money and have such great career prospects in the UK, then they can apply for a Tier 2 visa first.

There's a difference between not being able to be together "now" and never being able to be together. Many of the examples that come up where people are below the level, the couples are very young, your earning power at 18 is vastly inferior to your earning power at 25, or above. For those under the level at the moment, I'd say that keeping the faith is important, and sacrifices may need to be made, many people on here have endured years of long distance whilst they saved and worked hard to further their careers in order to be together and it's just one of the things you have to consider when entering a relationship with someone from abroad.

I have to disagree with this. My DH and I are in our thirties, and time is running out for us to try for a family. He has worked admin jobs and supported himself well in Scotland, but never made over £18,000. I worked crap jobs in the US before going back to school for my BSc (Hons) and a Master's - 6 straight years of school. If I fell under the new rule, I have no idea what we would do. 
And as for sacrifice? How does sacrifice having a family factor into things?

I get the sense that's all well and good for you to say those things because you're in the clear. I may be in the clear yet, as I have my spouse visa, but it's still very upsetting. I've endured 6 months away from my husband, and to even think of enduring *years* just to be able to live together as husband and wife is a gut-wrenching thought.

I agree with several people here, ...£18,600 isn't super rich, it's actually less than £10 an hour without overtime, when I was 16 I worked totally unskilled retail and I made £7ish an hour (admittedly this was in an all night garage) , and made double time on evenings after 10pm and weekends.

Yes for many people, it's not something they make now, but excluding those who have very specific disability or childcare related issues, it is an achievable sum of money to earn, within a timescale of five years.

There's a difference between not being able to be together "now" and never being able to be together. Many of the examples that come up where people are below the level, the couples are very young, your earning power at 18 is vastly inferior to your earning power at 25, or above. For those under the level at the moment, I'd say that keeping the faith is important, and sacrifices may need to be made, many people on here have endured years of long distance whilst they saved and worked hard to further their careers in order to be together and it's just one of the things you have to consider when entering a relationship with someone from abroad.

its easy for people to say those things when they are not in our situation, or who have there visa's already. Currently Denise is unable to work due to her depression and anxiety, plus her knee and back. I'm on SS and yeah i can get a job at some point but i can only work so many hours or else SS gets taken away, for me i know it would take a very long time to even kinda sort surpass the new rules. And im sorry but the new rules are just bullshit! not everybody can make that amount of money, if they make less then that like me and Denise do we can still keep a roof over our heads, be fed, pay pills, ect. they are just full of it!!! 

Currently Denise is unable to work due to her depression and anxiety, plus her knee and back.

If Denise is on disability benefit, you would not have to worry about the new income threshold anyway.

What shocks me is that more than 50% of this site wouldn't have been able to make it over! We all seem like a fairly well rounded bunch, I can't believe that so many people would have been excluded! But perhaps we are not taking into account that while the threshold would have been higher in the past, it surely would have been less if you include inflation? I don't know, I just find it hard to believe that half of us couldn't have made it! Wow!

You can totally disagree and think the rules are unjust, but the fact of the matter remains that 18,600 is not "super-rich".

I think that is the only thing people are disagreeing with.  

I think it is insane they no longer consider third party support. 

But in the situation where the applicant no longer makes over the threshold at the "check-in" stage, they would just be moved onto the 10-year path and be allowed to remain in the UK.   It would be hard to argue in court that UKBA should be forced to keep them on the 5 year path when their Article 8 rights were still being maintained.

This (IMHO) is the really "clever" bit of these rule changes.   They've turned the 10 year rule from being a very unusual, exceptional case into a catch-all silo that they can use to defend these new rules from court challenges.

This is not hard to argue at all.  Especially for people who are wishing to retire in the UK. 

It's effectively possible for someone to have less retirement income than £18,600 per year.  It's also possible for them to have enough savings to offset a shortage.  I don't think though that most pensionsers would have it in their financial plan to hold onto thousands of pounds of money for five years just to satisfy the government that they aren't on benefits.  They might have planned to use that money to buy a home outright, so they could live comfortably without help from the State.

There is just too much in these rules that invades family privacy.

I have to disagree with this. My DH and I are in our thirties, and time is running out for us to try for a family. He has worked admin jobs and supported himself well in Scotland, but never made over £18,000. I worked crap jobs in the US before going back to school for my BSc (Hons) and a Master's - 6 straight years of school. If I fell under the new rule, I have no idea what we would do. 
And as for sacrifice? How does sacrifice having a family factor into things?

I get the sense that's all well and good for you to say those things because you're in the clear. I may be in the clear yet, as I have my spouse visa, but it's still very upsetting. I've endured 6 months away from my husband, and to even think of enduring *years* just to be able to live together as husband and wife is a gut-wrenching thought.

Well the issues of earning less in other parts of the UK is one of the reasons why I think there should be an Income and Expenditure based level at which they set this figure, rather than a hard limit but that's not what the government have chosen and actually it turns out that I don't think that £18,600 is an unreasonable amount if it HAD to be a fixed figure, there are always going to be people who fall on the "wrong" side of any limit even and I&E based one, this happens now under the current rules, there are several people on the forum who don't make the amount that was previously required. Why is it only unfair now you've been hit when it wasn't when they were hit?  

In regards to having children, people have been sacrificing this for many years for monetary reasons, yes it sucks, but it's not a uniquely immigration related issue. One of the reasons we haven't had children yet despite me being 30 next year is because we don't want to lose my wage and childcare is difficult with no familiar support (and my job is pretty much 24/7), I hear from people in my life or on this board who cannot afford to have kids who earn much more than £18,600 a year. It's been common throughout history.

Yes of course, I'm very "lucky", I'm more than aware of this, but there are a few possible things that I would have done if we'd not been able to be together, including moving to the US where they allow third party support,  (after years of LDR and spending over $100K in student loans) or looking to move to a EU country.
I really feel sorry for those like same-sex couples who's unions aren't recognised in the US or don't have third party support, or who's spouses are from countries which aren't necessarily safe to go back to.  

And yes, I think the disallowance of third party support is stupid.

So in conclusion, I don't think that the £18,600 limit is "right" but I also don't think it's for the "super-rich" only, if they had to have a hard limit I feel it's pretty reasonable, but I think a hard limit is the wrong way to go and that third party support should have been left in as an option.

Yes - I feel humanly sorry for anyone caught out by these rules, or the previous rules for that matter, but I don't feel all options are totally closed down by these new rules if you don't meet the criteria straight away, and that focusing on fringe cases isn't always that helpful. There will always be people who will not earn enough to move here no matter what level they set the income bar to.

Be thankful that most people on this board have a country that is safe to move their spouse to and allows immigration into it, hopefully Obama will soon make this possible for people no matter what gender they are and what gender they're married to.

I think in terms of the UKY poll, it's very subjective. Many of those who come to UKY are looking for free advice or have borderline applications and want to maximise their chances of getting their visa. We don't see as many who just read the info, apply because they're well over the guideline figures and have a "safe"/"easy" application or those who pay for professional help because they can afford it.

cheesebiscuit, with all due respect, it sounds to me as if the Tories have convinced you.

It sounds to me that common sense and a clear grip on reality has convinced the lovely cheesebiscuit.

I'm not here on a visa, but if I had been, BF and I would have qualified (assuming we'd met via LDR rather than in-person after we moved).

Likewise, if BF and I split up and I fell for an American, I could afford to sponsor them for a visa.

Granted, we're both in fairly specialised/well-paid positions, but even the positions aimed at a fresh college graduate in my field pay over £19k (at least for all the job listings I've seen, including those well outside London).