Why do *you* hate Starbucks?

Personally, I avoid Starbucks because the coffee tastes like horse whizz. Likewise Costa.

I'd like to hear the story behind your point of reference.

I'd like to hear the story behind your point of reference.

It's a long story.

I think it's silly to single out a corporation.

No, it's really not.  It might be hypocritical if you avoid Starbucks because it is putting the little shops out of business, but then go to MaccyD's, but there is nothing 'silly' about refusing to go to any of these places in order to make some attempt to stop the corporate homogonisation of the high street.

And look, it's working!  Starbucks have reported major profit downturns!  Yippee!!!!!

Has anyone been to the O2 Centre lately?  That is the perfect example of what the High Street in the UK could look like unless more of us do decide to pay the extra few pence/cents and go somewhere different.

Vicky

I understand the argument behind not using chains and do try to use independent shops and pubs.  I had an away weekend last summer where we managed to avoid chains all together and it was kind of hit and miss.  Because I'm usually with children I really need to be able to walk in a cafe/restaurant and be guaranteed that I will get fast reasonably priced  food that my children will eat that's  in a clean environment.  And I want to know that there will be someone accountable for the service I get.  I KNOW that I can get that in chains.  And I know that if I don't there is a structure there for me to complain to.  That's not always the case in independent shops.
Our last trip to London as a family we made a point of eating in an independent cafe and it wasn't great.  It was expensive and to top it off we were served our sandwiches on CINNAMON bagels.  Pastrami on a cinnamon bagel was not nice.  We complained and got nowhere.  Suddenly our English speaking waitress didn't and it turned into a 'that's what you ordered.....' when we asked to speak to someone else.  We cut our losses and will never eat there again.  It was a busy place in a touristy area so no doubt they don't count on return customers.  Next time we went to MacDonald's.

No, it's really not.  It might be hypocritical if you avoid Starbucks because it is putting the little shops out of business, but then go to MaccyD's, but there is nothing 'silly' about refusing to go to any of these places in order to make some attempt to stop the corporate homogonisation of the high street.

And look, it's working!  Starbucks have reported major profit downturns!  Yippee!!!!!

Has anyone been to the O2 Centre lately?  That is the perfect example of what the High Street in the UK could look like unless more of us do decide to pay the extra few pence/cents and go somewhere different.

Vicky

I think you miss my point. I'm saying that most likely any company/store, that we as a diverse community have all heard of, is going to be the sort of corporation homogenizer (or at least has goals to get there) that you are all talking about.

To actively protest against these types of establishment, you would have to avoid all franchises/chains. Why pick on Starbucks? Why not Pret or Costa? We now have to avoid smaller chains like Coffee Republic and Benugo. Like you say.. we'll have to avoid McDonalds and all other fast foods. And Boots, and all chain supermarkets... gosh we haven't even begun with retail shops. I mean Primark, good god, how many small children were tortured to turn out £2 tops??

You're right, idealistically it's not silly, but if you really look into have far and wide worldwide conglomeration has already reached, it's just silly to point fingers at Starbucks.

And somehow I think Starbucks' profit downturn is more to do with a s****y economy than people fed up with the homogenization of the high streets.

And look, it's working!  Starbucks have reported major profit downturns!  Yippee!!!!!

But at the same time, people are losing their livelihood and perhaps having to start claiming benefits, so I don't understand the yippee!!!! behind people losing their livelihood.

eta, also, I do feel bad for the small guys who lose their shops if that is the case, however in my opinion and where I live, there wasn't that service to get coffee to take away, so in some markets they weren't replacing services, they were giving additional services.

And in the U.S. at least they are good jobs that pay well and have benefits.

And I honestly don't think Starbucks has shut down that many independent coffee places.  There honestly weren't that many of them around before Starbucks.   You would have had a hard time finding anywhere to have a coffee after 5 pm in London 20 years ago.  Most towns only had a cafe or two-you were usually stuck with a Poppins or a horrible cafe in BHS or someplace like that.  This mythical land of independent coffee shops and cafes just didn't exist.  There are a LOT more places to have coffee now including new independent places.

I wasn't really drinking coffee in London 20 years ago (being 11 at the time), but Starbucks only really sprang up around 10 years ago as far as I can recall.  I do remember being dragged to the BHS coffee shop on shopping trips with my mum, but really that was considered a treat in the '80's.

But right in town there have always been coffee shops - I used to come into Soho as a kid all the time with my dad, and I have certainly seen a few places close.  We still have the REALLY old places like Valerie's and Maison Bertaux, but I still worry that the franchises will one day see to them too.

I can perfectly understand that, with children in tow you can't be as fussy all the time - especially young fractious children who want to eat NOW!!!  But I can shop around, so I feel morally obliged to do so.  As well as avoiding all of the other corporate nasties as much as possible.

Vicky

I was an adult in London and the Southeast 20 years ago and I'm not exaggerating.  There just wasn't a choice.  There were sad chains or dingy cafes.  And if there was a decent place it tended to have weird or at least very limited hours.  It was impossible to get a cup of coffee after 5.  If you went out you had to get coffee at the restaurant and I'm not kidding when I say that it was served in the tiniest cup you have ever seen.  Seriously child's tea party set sized cups. 
Starbucks probably opened 10-12 years ago in the UK. And say what you will about Starbucks but they have revolutionized cafes in this country.  You can get a decent cup of coffee, there is choice, they are open longer hours.  I'm not just talking about Starbucks now-more chains have opened, more independent cafes have opened and the cafes that are still around from before have really gotten their acts together and are offering a much better service and longer hours.
I am a coffee fiend and it was something that I really noticed.  PLUS the continent has had a HUGE influence-you would never have seen tables and chairs outside cafes in the summer and you certainly wouldn't have had a choice of what coffee to have.

Like the link I posted eariler on this thread.  They created a market when none existed before and more independent coffee shops have opened since Starbucks has gone mega. 

I  If you went out you had to get coffee at the restaurant and I'm not kidding when I say that it was served in the tiniest cup you have ever seen.  Seriously child's tea party set sized cups. 

I don't know the reason but coffee cups have always been about half the size of tea cups for as long as I can remember.
"Dainty don't you know"

Like the link I posted eariler on this thread.  They created a market when none existed before and more independent coffee shops have opened since Starbucks has gone mega. 

I have to agree with this. In my city there are quite a few Starbucks, but the few independent coffee shops have really gotten their act together and have a lot to offer as an alternative. I have quite a few choices now where none existed before.

I see your point.  I have always been familiar with different types of coffee and sitting outside because of the Italian cafes which have been in Soho for years (many since the '30's).  But in the outskirts, yes, I suppose that Starbucks has created the demand for decent coffee shops.  I still reserve the right to dislike them though 


Vicky

I was an adult in London and the Southeast 20 years ago and I'm not exaggerating.  There just wasn't a choice.  There were sad chains or dingy cafes.  And if there was a decent place it tended to have weird or at least very limited hours.  It was impossible to get a cup of coffee after 5.  If you went out you had to get coffee at the restaurant and I'm not kidding when I say that it was served in the tiniest cup you have ever seen.  Seriously child's tea party set sized cups. 

This is what is still on offer in my town centre for "independent cafes" - the kindof place that serves fry ups for £1.99..... which is why you'll see my ample butt sitting in a caffenero/starbucks.