Do USC in the UK have to file IRS 8833 and/or 8854?

I think Form 8854, "Initial and Annual Expatriation Statement" is only for USC who've relinquished USC and for people who were long term US resident non-USC (e.g. green card holders) who've left the country, not for USC living abroad.

I think form 8833 "Treaty-Based Return Position Disclosure" is only if you're doing something more than simply claiming foreign tax relief. For instance, claiming a lump sum from a UK as tax free in the US would require a 8833 form.

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8854
https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8833

https://www.castroandco.com/blog/2018/february/u-s-tax-treatment-of-uk-pension-distributions/ (Why Your 25% Pension Commencement Lump Sum Should Not Be Taxed By The IRS)

(I searched this forum and looked at a number of posts, but didn't find a clear answer.)

Thanks, Jonathan

I think Form 8854, "Initial and Annual Expatriation Statement" is only for USC who've relinquished USC and for people who were long term US resident non-USC (e.g. green card holders) who've left the country, not for USC living abroad.

I think form 8833 "Treaty-Based Return Position Disclosure" is only if you're doing something more than simply claiming foreign tax relief.

I agree.

Form 8833 is not even required to avoid paying US taxes on SS if the recipient is living in the UK.

Treaties are elective. Should a US citizen wish to elect to claim the benefit of a tax treaty, Form 8833 would be filed to tell the IRS what treaty position is being taken.  US Treasury Regulations permit limited exceptions where the form is not required, but most tax professionals continue to file Form 8833 so that the IRS are clear on the position being taken.