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Topic: UK Citizen Renouncing US Citizenship  (Read 1578 times)

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UK Citizen Renouncing US Citizenship
« on: May 05, 2023, 03:11:50 PM »
I have just completed the streamlined foreign offshore procedure after having lived in the UK for the last 21 years. I moved here from the USA as a child and was unaware of US tax obligations. As time goes on, i'm now wondering if renouncing citizenship would be a reasonable/wise move for me. My husband and children are only UK citizens and have never lived in the USA, we don't have any plans to move there. It was always nice to think we had the option but realistically I don't believe we ever will.

Am I right in thinking now that I've completed the streamlined foreign offshore procedure I will have to submit a further 2 years of tax returns before I can think about renouncing my citizenship? So that would be this year and next year to make up the 5 years? Or does it need to be 5 further years starting now?

It says that if you don't have have the past 5 years of returns submitted you'll be considered a covered expat and then subject to exit tax. The other 2 criteria for being a covered expat don't apply to me. If it was an option to renounce this year meaning I was subject to exit tax, i'm not sure if it would affect me or not? My husband and I jointly own a house which we've renovated and has gained in value but is there a threshold or are you taxed on any gains? Would it just be simpler and less expensive to wait the 2 years and not be a covered expat?

During the process of renouncing citizenship, will I be required to submit anything for the years before the last 3 years? As I did the foreign offshore procedure obviously only 3 years have been submitted to date.

What are the major cons to renouncing citizenship? Can I still travel there after? Can my children? Am i free from tax related obligations etc once I have renounced citizenship and completed the Form 8854? Are there any kind of ongoing obligations that I might not know about?

It's been a really financially hard year for us this year and having to pay a lot of money to sort out my US taxes and become compliant has been hard on us. I had money invested in many funds which I sold before Jan as the cost to have the forms completed by a tax company were more expensive than what I made in my funds. I'm now looking at having to put everything in my husbands name and then it's the ongoing stress of doing the tax returns every year and paying for an accountant etc. It cost me almost 3/4 of my annual income to pay for the streamlined procedure. I am a very low earner as I'm self employed and have been largely at home with the kids but we have a reasonable amount of assets (the house and some savings).

Any help or advice for any of the above would be so appreciated. I know at some point I will likely have to pay for a consulatation but it's just more money we don't have at the moment.



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Re: UK Citizen Renouncing US Citizenship
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2023, 11:38:48 PM »
I can only offer:

Right now you have dual citizenship. If you wished, you could move to the USA.  You say you have no plans to do so, but heaven only knows what the future may bring. You've already lost the option of moving elsewhere in the EU because of Brexit.  Conditions in the UK could deteriorate substantially (in a worst case) and you might be better off bringing your family to the US to live than remaining there. You won't have that option if you renounce.  So I guess my suggestion is to weigh the relatively minor hassle of reporting to the IRS every year (and it should be minor, now that you've sorted out all the "back taxes" issues and is something you can do yourself without a hired consultant) v. not having an option to "jump ship" to the USA if things do take a turn for the worse there in a substantial way. You would be burning not only your bridges, but a potential economic safety net if you renounce.

Your children - as I understand it they are not US citizens because you did not spend the requisite number of years in the USA and are married to a UK citizen. If that's incorrect, and if they were eligible for US citizenship, I would want to see that they had it. It  gives them the "wiggle room" to move to the USA if things don't go well for them economically (or otherwise) in the UK.  And it would give them the option to make the decision for themselves re: dual citizenship. I had a parent make a decision about my own dual citizenship (not UK) without even alerting me they'd done so. While I was able to get around that as an adult, it impacted my own child and deprived her of that option. She and I are still pretty ticked off with my father about that. (Of course, if your children are not automatically dual citizens, it's a moot point.)

[I would imagine you'd already considered all of the above, but just in case not.]  I'll leave all your other questions to people who will have the information I can't provide.  Best of luck, whichever way you decide to land.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2023, 11:42:33 PM by Nan D. »


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Re: UK Citizen Renouncing US Citizenship
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2023, 06:49:16 PM »
Right now you have dual citizenship. If you wished, you could move to the USA.  You say you have no plans to do so, but heaven only knows what the future may bring. You've already lost the option of moving elsewhere in the EU because of Brexit. 

The OP, her husband or children, might have skills that are in demand. These people can always get a visa to a country of their choice as long as they have good health, because they are wanted.



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Re: UK Citizen Renouncing US Citizenship
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2023, 03:47:50 AM »
True, in some cases. But it didn't read that way to me and most "guy on the street" people in the UK would not qualify for a long-term visa or greencard in the USA. (Just as most people in the USA would not qualify for the equivalent in the UK.)  I'm not up on the latest requirements in the EU, but doubt it's the same as it used to be.

In the USA H1B visas are capped firmly and are highly competitive. (There's no cap for academic H1B visas. But the competition for positions that would lead to one is fierce.) L1B is still an option, if the spouse is working for a USA company over there in the UK.  If someone is a medical professional, that is, as everywhere, golden. However, once here I believe that even doctors have quite a lot more hoops to jump through than in the UK - including doing a new residency and passing all the medical exams. (They often have to pretty much completely redo their education.)  There is some sort of temporary visa for the equivalent of fruit pickers....



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Re: UK Citizen Renouncing US Citizenship
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2023, 11:49:58 AM »
I don't know the answer to the requirements for renunciation but I think that the OP's suggestion of moving all the funds into her husband's name is good, if not essential if she is referring to the UK equivalent of mutual funds.

If she has no US income then filing a US return becomes very simple.  Our son is a dual citizen and has no US income.  Each year his tax return is very simple as he simply excludes his UK wages using form 2555 and has zero taxable income since the interest from his UK savings account is very small, and he does this return himself each year.  He does need to file an FBAR each year as he has more than $10k in UK accounts.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


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Re: UK Citizen Renouncing US Citizenship
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2023, 12:27:28 PM »
If someone is a medical professional, that is, as everywhere, golden. However, once here I believe that even doctors have quite a lot more hoops to jump through than in the UK - including doing a new residency and passing all the medical exams. (They often have to pretty much completely redo their education.)


It's the EU and their Free Movement who are lax with qualifications, which are at odds with those who entered under some EEA countires own immigration laws. Everybody is now under UK immigration laws.
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/information-overseas-doctors

Another bizarre thing was TB tests. The UK required a TB test from some countries, but the EU said these non-EEA citizens could live in the UK without a TB test if they entered under their Free Movement.
https://www.gov.uk/tb-test-visa/countries-where-you-need-a-tb-test-to-enter-the-uk

There is some sort of temporary visa for the equivalent of fruit pickers....

The same in the UK too now, called the Seasonal Worker visa.  EEA citizens can also apply for this visa, but they are now under the stricter UK immigration rules and are treated the same as other migrants. Which means that they can no longer bring family members with them; can't have UK public funds, can't use the NHS for free and can't settle in the UK.

Under the Natioanlity and Borders Act 2022, overstaying a visa in the UK is now up to 2 years in jail.



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