Buying a used car

We are planning on buying a used car in the near future and have started looking but my in-laws have said something that frankly confuses my husband and I.  I have learned that not everything my in-laws say is actually correct though they believe it to be.  They have told us that if we are buying a car and not trading a car in that the dealership will give us a discount because they don't have to go and sell the car we would have traded in.  Now this goes against everything that we have done in the US because a trade in is a trade in and you either have one or you don't when you buy a car but they don't give you a "discount" if you don't have one.  

So are my in-laws correct that we should get a "discount" if we are buying a car without a trade in or are they slightly mistaken.  We just don't want to ask the question at the dealership and look like idiots.

Thanks,

Kathy

I think that what your in-laws are saying in a round-about way is that car dealers have their level - some sell new cars, some nearly new, some not so new, and some sell old bangers.  The chances are that what you are trading is lower down the pecking order, so they have to sell it at trade to get rid of it.

Now, people don't like to hear what their fine, well-looked-after trade-in is really worth, so they are suckered into believing that it is worth something much closer to what they think it is worth.  Card dealers know this and knock this "extra" they are paying for the trade in off the discount they would have given on a sale of their car for cash.

So, you are buying a car for £12,000, and the dealer would sell it for £10,000 after discount to a cash buyer, but you have a trade-in.  It is a banger worth £500, but you think that it is worth £2,000.  The dealer knows that if he tells you he'll only give you £500 for your car then you'll walk away and take your business elsewhere, soooo .......

The dealer sells you the car for £9,500 plus your old wreck, which he "values" (tells you it's worth) at £2,000, so you seem to have paid £11,500.  The trader sells your old wreck for £500 (what it's really worth) in the trade, so he has realized a total of £10,000 cash from the two deals, which is what he would have accepted for a cash sale (i.e.no trade-in) in the first place.

That is the theory, I'm not certain that it is this simple in practice.  I have often heard that you are likely to do better by selling a car that you already own, privately and then approaching a dealer as a cash buyer.  Having said that I have heard the same thing here in the US.

When we were looking to buy a new car recently we had the wind knocked out of our hopes. Didn't help our dreams that we actually went into the dealership armed with all sorts of information gleaned off the Internet.

I was looking to trade in my MX-5 (Mazda Miata) and knew from research that I could get (easily) £3,000 for it if I sold it privately. We wanted a Renault Scenic and if memory serves me right, this was £16,000 new in dealerships and £14,000 on the Internet. We figured we could talk the guy down to £11,000 plus trade-in, easy-peasy.

No.

We walked away with the impression he'd be talking with his manager and then faxing us the price we wanted later that day. Oh, we got the fax. He was offering to CHARGE us £500 to take the used car. With that amount of money we decided to hold onto our sportscar as a third car...heck, costs us less to just keep the thing.

We also looked at the same car, but last year's model. That was priced like the Internet new rate.

Forgetting what I said above, because he clearly didn't think he could sell the sportscar...it is American...

We were told that a trade-in will be given that extra leverage because a new car price has more "play". What they are offering is not a better deal on your trade-in, they are offering a better negotiation on the new car. They don't have as much play on the price of a used car.

I personally feel it's better to go into a dealership and hand them Internet proof that you can get "that car" at "this price" and sell your other car privately...possibly even just for scrap. Be prepared to walk away, but first test drive the car you want. If we hadn't been so time-dependant on getting a car, I would have opted the Internet route. (In other words, to have put my money where my mouth is.)

Dealers will be talked down to a price, but it has to make the company a profit and the salesman a bonus. Do your homework to see where their price is. (They really don't like the Internet being a competitor...when I mentioned our research, the guy's eyes nearly glazed over; he knew he'd been beat.) Selling on your used car is simply going to be more paperwork that won't be thrilling for them unless it's a highly-sought-after used car.

A side note: Folks here are so taken with the year of their cars...reflected on their license (registration) plates. If you bought a used car that was just one number lower...in otherwords, was last year's model just at the point the new models were just out...you'll probably get a really good deal, and it'll be as close to a new car as you can get. Ex demos will get you a good price too.

Interesting thread. I am going to be looking to buy a second hand car soon, and have wondered how it works here too. Lisa, I may be interested if you still are wanting to sell the Mazda.  Mainly if it has left hand steering,,lol. I don't know if I can get used to right hand steering,, and having to learn how to drive stick too,, ugh,,,lol.

Tris

.... I may be interested if you still are wanting to sell the Mazda. ....

Check about the insurance first, many insurers won't touch "grey imports", like the Mazda Miata.  They have some different parts to a UK spec MX5 and can be more expensive to fix, so the insurance is likely to be more.  

Left hand drive cars also cost more to insure, and if you are a new (in the UK) driver you may find it difficult, if not impossible, to get insurance on a US spec Miata.

Odd...not only was mine very easy to import, it took less than a day to make the "modifications" necessary to put it on the road here. (Actually, just added one rear fog lamp and adjusted both headlamps; done at the Mazda dealership...been road worthy and passed all MOTs ever since, being five years on now.)

Insurance was very easy (try Norwich Union) and they had me on my American license for the first year and my UK one after I passed the test thereafter. No significant increase in cost, in fact less than what I was used to paying in the US.

As far as parts, the air bag had to be replaced just to appease that annoying little red light that kept blinking "service". That came directly from Japan, and yes, was more expensive. But all other parts that have been needed so far have been just the same as the UK (actually quite few...service on Miatas is one of the best parts of making it so valuable, far and few inbetween needed).

Tristen, not sure if I want to sell "my baby". Giving it serious thought, though. But you can be sure the next car would probably be a Miata. Best car I have ever owned. And insurers here seem to like it too.

Don't know about other cars though. My experience might be the exception. But I can guarantee Norwich Union won't give a hassle. Anyone I have ever referred on has said it's been a very easy process, too.

One thing I liked about driving over here with my left-hand drive car is that I could concentrate on learning the road and the signs and all else that has to be remembered that is so "foreign" without worrying about where the gear shift is as well. I know this car with my eyes closed...not that I drive that way    And that was one thing that I didn't have to worry about. BUT I took instruction with an agency in their right-hand drive car (which I also took the test in). This way I learned the proper way, and I must admit that now that I'm on the road, aside from feeling comfortable in my own car, I do wish now it was a righty and not a lefty.

My father in law has a nice dark burgandy one, and he only takes it out on weekends when it's sunny :lol,, his is a right hand steering one.  So you think when we are ready to get me in a set of wheels I should bite the bullet and get a right hand steering one then?  Hubby is a brit, and is insisting I learn to do things the 'British' way,, but it's so scarey learning this driving stuff over again,, I have been driving since I was 16, but I feel like a beginner again :lol.  I am awaiting my provisional liscense now, and will take some lessons to make sure I am comfortable. Then hopefully will pass my tests and be driving by Christmas.  We live in the south, so it's pretty mild here, and I am going to scout out for just the right car

I know what you mean about not being sure about selling your "baby" Lisa :lol,, I had a firebird trans am when I was in my early 20's that I hated selling,,  but was making babies, and needed something more practical at the time. Now tho,, am ready for something fun to drive. There is no hurry I know,, hubby wants something we can load lots of camping stuff into,, but if he wants that,, he's going to have to trade in his vectra  

Mr Val,, once I get the driving situation sorted,, will ask again about the car insurance stuff. Sometimes I really hate being a grownup  

Tris

I personally benefitted by learning the road system over here in a car I didn't have to learn in as well. I felt that comfort zone in knowing that if I did hit an emergency situation, blind habit would take over. Maybe that was a security blanket, but it got me out of the posts with a confidence...at least in the car, even if I didn't have it for the road.

Driving around on my own was good in that sense. But learnig the correct way for the test, yes, I do suggest it be done in a 'proper' car for the roads here. And, before you know it, it will seem quite natural.

We have two right-hand drive cars and this left-hand one. I easily switch between them for various driving excursions. I think once you know a road area, such as the street outside your house, it begins to "look" right being on one side or the other. Then when you get your bearings in your own familiar neighborhood, it's easy to remember the rules. Driving on the left has never been too much of a problem for me. It's the traffic lights that get me confused!

Odd...not only was mine very easy to import, it took less than a day to make the "modifications" necessary to put it on the road here. .....

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that it was necessarily difficult to import a car, more that over time you may discover other difficulties, and added expenses obtaining parts, when you need to get it repaired, which is one of the reasons that you pay more to ensure a lefty in the UK.

I am talking generally as I am not an expert on how Mazda Miatas differ from their MX5 cousins. ....  Among the many things that may be different, and therefore need to be specially imported (or bought from a specialist) include many of the pipes, hoses, ducts, and wires in and around the engine because the engine may be in a different place to make room for the steering.  

If the engine is located differently then (i) it needs different mounting brackets, and (ii) the front suspension will be different (frm a righty) to compensate for the shift in the engine (springs are different left and right in all cars because the weight of the engine and gearbox is rarely central (left v right) in the car).

There are also other odd things that may be different in some cars that you may not expect - like Mercedes that makes at least some of their current models with different windshields for left and right hand drive cars (there are notches out of sight in the bottom edge for the wiper drives).

Some manfacturers actually put different sized engines, or different spec engines, in cars for different countries, which may be to do with polution control or to cope with the grade of gas that is available - UK "regular" unleaded is 93 octane (I think), compared to US (basic) unleaded that is only 87 octane, though higher grades are widely available.

One thing, for example, that certainly is different for cars that have been around along as long as the Miata is that ones built pre 1992 were built to run on leaded gas in the UK and Europe (and therefore didn't have cats), but on unleaded in the US.  The difference is critical and it isn't merely a matter of retuning the engine as the cylinder head is made from a different material.  If you take a "leaded" engine and run it on unleaded gas it will eventually destroy the valve seats.

All of these reasons mean that a high-street car retailer can't risk selling a lefty - the potential cost is too great if something goes wrong.