My Doc cousin let me know about the UK govt. possibly kicking out foriegn >

Doctors and other medical people last week.

Apparently some changes the govt. is making to the status of foreign doctors means they may be forced to leave - ie any exams, work experience gained may not qualify them for permanent residency/medical status within the UK

His situation is similar with many others apparently, and he's NOT happy about it. He was headhunted by the NHS over in India in 2002. Apparently the NHS has a lack of anaesthetists (sp?) so over he came with his Pathologist missus summer 02. They were both specialists at their respective hospitals back in India, but here, becuase they have no UK experience, they were at 'junior doctor' level. Kick in the teeth no.1.

Kick in the teeth 2 - they both could only get temporary (locum I think theyre called) posts, kick in the teeth no3, it took his wifey almost a year to get a locum position! until then, she was only given UNPAID work (which i thought was just an absolute pi$$take!)

Respite from kicks in the teeth - they both got long term posts about 2 years ago.

Latest kick in the teeth - the govt. changes last week - mean that all this experience they've now been getting may amount to nothing as they may not be allowed to get another position here in the UK.

more details here - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/16052006/325/foreign-doctors-facing-discrimination-bma.html

Seeing as ALOT more of our family and friends who are Docs, Dentists, Peditricians, pathologists etc etc are in the US and Canada have been telling them to move over - this may be a blessing as I've often spoke to them about possibly moving over rather than staying here.

Spanner in the works is that they've now got a 6 month baby boy (he's a cutey!) and they thought of moving say in 2-4 years.

If I tell you some of the 'insider' info about the NHS these 2 and their numerous friends have observed - it'd be an eye opener!

This is a slight 'political' post I guess - but seeing as it affects Professional medical staff I thought to post here and because many US to UK movers regard healthcare quite highly on their reasons to move.

Overall - isn't it stupid for the govt to do this? on one hand there's not 'enough' interested UK born students/med students here so they let in foreign docs to compensate, now they say we'll only let in EU born ones instead. Fine you may say, but when my cousin says the 'quality' of care is reduced here in the NHS compared to what he's used to and he was not allowed to do med procedures he'd done thousands of times in India here because he 'had no UK experience' - isn't the NHS going to suffer even more because of it?

Guess I'm just venting after my cousin vented! - not trying to ruffle any feathers here - just discussing!

Dennis! West London & Slough UK!

Gosh Dennis, I am so sorry to hear about this!! Especially since they were recruited....given training and the unpaid stuff as well. I do hope that they will consider moving to the states or Canada! Very scary for the UK!

Seems they should be looking at less qualified folks wanting to move over here....hmm, guess I should......

Overall - isn't it stupid for the govt to do this? on one hand there's not 'enough' interested UK born students/med students here so they let in foreign docs to compensate, now they say we'll only let in EU born ones instead.

Yep! 

We are so desperate for an extra set of hands to help at my hospital.  RN's are quitting, doctors are leaving, they have put a freeze on recruitment.  Scares the crap out of me.  When staff get overwhelmed and quit (which is happening left and right)the trust is basically saying  "Fantastic, one less person for us to pay!  Yippee !!  Bye bye, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out".   

They are not even doing a darn thing to stop the mass exodus of British staff.  They want people to leave because they hate paying wages, doesn't matter what nationality you are.   

Hiya!

Our family has complex and semi complex situations when it comes to living in other countries etc etc. My cousins younger bro (flew back home to Toronto this AM after a weeks visit) has been nagging his bro to come to Canada for the past 7 years after he got there. He now has his own successful Dental Practice along with his missus who is also a dentist! No doubt they've been discussing this situation and what to do next. My other extended family all over the US who are medical professionals are looking out for anything they could go for.

My cousin feels really aggravated that the govt. have decided to do this or are planning on doing so, he feels that it should be 'new' people wishing to come in, not the ones like him who've been here a number of years - time will tell if theres any change on that, but so far it looks like they are included as well.

Although the NHS is a very good institution, on the world stage it's lost it's shine, it's heyday was in the 50's - other countries have since shown how to have a similar system that works well and efficiently (France and Canada) in comparison.

My niece who is 18 has applied for Medicine for uni this year, I hope she gets it as that's what she wants to do, however, I have gently talked to her to see if she'd be happy going to live with her Mum in Stockton California to do her studies as afterwards at least she'll have decent pay - but that's between her and her mum really.

I've heard of alot of nurses leaving the profesion, as well as doctors in the NHS suddenly leaving when they see how much more they can earn in the private sector. Not so long ago it was the NHS dentists who for some reason having their head in the sand for ages realised 'hang on I can earn double or triple if I leave this place' is it any wonder the NHS is creaking with inefficiency?

I guess it's just way too ingrained into UK culture to accept the very low rates of pay across all professions in comparison to the costs of living here - something that won't change quickly enough though I'm afraid and in the meantime, the UK's political changes means less and less talent is willing to do the jobs. The future looks bleaker in this respect.

I'll shut up now, had a very late one last night and I'm still knackered! don't need the doctor though!

Dennis! West London & Slough UK!

Although the NHS is a very good institution, on the world stage it's lost it's shine, it's heyday was in the 50's - other countries have since shown how to have a similar system that works well and efficiently (France and Canada) in comparison.

Haha, Dennis!! ROFLMAO!!.  I like that you think Canada's health care works efficiently.  NOT! It is in a bigger mess than the NHS. And any doctors over here who will fall under this new scheme and find themselves unqualified, don't go to canada unless you are VERY sure you will be able to work as a doctor in Canada and have sufficient CANADIAN qualifications.  the last thing Canada needs is more foreign doctors working as janitors and pizza delivery people.   they already have too many. 

DH and I were talking about this news item last week.  It is very, very scary.  What happened in Canada, is that new doctors and doctors who are just fed up with the system, flock to the US. Canada is now at a deficit for doctors.  more are leaving than they are educating.  And foreign doctors, in order for them to get their qualifications, they need to go through their boards again which means full time study for a min of two years.  Most people can not find a doctor in Canada unless they have been a patient all their lives.  And if doctors retire, most will not tell their patients because there is no one to send them to.  One day you have a dr. the next you don't. 

I would really, really, really hate to see the UK in the same boat.  I believe strongly in socialised healthcare, but come on, let's actually run it effectively!!! 

my sister moved to BC, Canada 3 years ago.  It took her 19 months to get on a doctor's registry.  once she did they, they moved to the US and she had to start again.  finally about 30 months after she moved there she had a permamant doctor.

Dennis, you are about 2 weeks behind the times!  There was a massive demo about this outside the Home Office, with several hundred (mainly Indian) doctors protesting against the changes, and my phone has hardly stopped ringing.

It is bang out of order.  The Government have encouraged people to come here to study, taken thousands of pounds in fees, and are now turning around and saying 'sorry, I know you have £30k of debt and a family who are now used to living here, but you all have to go home'.

The problem is that in England, because funding is so poor, there are more junior doctors than there are training posts, especially in the 'sexy' disciplines such as surgery.  The permit free employment category has been scrapped, and hotpitals have been ordered to recruit EU nationals above everyone else, regardless of ability or which country they trained in.

Your cousin might want to look at Northern Ireland or Scotland, where shortages are still vast.

Good luck.  If he needs any specific advice, you know where I am.


Vicky