finding work sucks...

my recent experience trying to find work...

At the beginning of May, i was told i was to be hired at a clothing shop, but they said that i couldn't start without having a NIN.
and the place that issues the numbers said i could not get a NIN without a job!    *sigh*

i finally found someone helpful at the Job Centre in Derby who explained what i needed to do.  i had the the employer write me a letter to take to my NIN interview, saying that i was to start working for them, and the rate of pay/hrs per week.  the man who interviewed me said this would be okay... (and it was...)

i had my interview, and he told me it should be about 3 weeks until i recieve it via post. 

the interviewer at the DWP said i should take this letter to the potential employer, stating that i had had my interview, and also had his name, phone number, along with my personal case reference #, in case they had further questions.   he told me i was ready to work, and really HAVE been since i got my visa.   cool!

i explained to the interviewer that the company wouldn't hire me because i didn't have a NIN.   he said that it was illegal for them to NOT hire me because of that.   he said i have up to 1 year to work WITHOUT ONE, and if they had any questions, they should contact him.

i explained this to the employer (assistant mgr.), who had to check with HER manager, who had to speak with THEIR bosses in London...  and blah blah blah...   

anyway, a month and 1/2 later, after being told that i had the job, after waiting on ppl to get their sh*t together, the employer calls me and leaves a message that they are going to hire a different person, because they felt it was too much "red tape" to hire me at this time.   :\\\'(

so now i have to start all over looking for a job...

meanwhile, to make matters worse and more stressful, my husband's company he worked for went bankrupt while waiting on a large corporation to sign a deal that didn't happen in time...   he was given notice of this on a Friday evening, and the company shut down on the following Monday.  the car we had was a company car, leased by his employer.   they had him turn that in, along with his laptop computer on that Mon. as well...   

(he actually got a better deal than his other co-workers, as they weren't told until Monday, but still, we only had the weekend to prepare.)

so now neither of us are working, and we don't have a car anymore, and now we worry about losing the home we own as well...

he will recieve 1 week of pay for every year he has worked for them (4-5 years, i believe)... which totals about 1 full paycheck after taxes and whatever.

nice.



i went to the Job Centre to look for more work.  i used their free public computer that lists area jobs available, and found another shop that was hiring.   i called the Job Centre to get the name of the shop.  the lady i spoke to said, "oh, i am sorry, you are not eligible to apply for that job."    when i asked why, she explained that the job was ONLY available to people that have been out of work for months and months that were recieving financial help from gov't, and that the job is to help people get off the dole by finding them work.   i laughed (with frustrated tears in my eyes) and explained how i was trying to find a job so i wouldn't HAVE to get gov't money.  i told her it wasn't fair to people like me who needed a job.   so, basically, i would have to sign on the dole to live off of the gov't for a few months before i would be able to apply for the job...        can you believe that?!    (p.s. i couldn't even do that if i wanted to, while on a marriage visa...)

silly me to think that a place called the "Job Centre" would actually have jobs avilable... 

oh, and here is another fun one...
another job that was available was for a hairdresser trainee at a local beauty shop.   its like an apprentice thing where they send you to college 1 day a week, and you work at the shop 4 days a week and get hands on training... eventually recieving a degree as a hairdresser.  (it costs thousands of $$$ in the states for the college programs...)    anyway, i called the place to see if i could schedule an interview.  the lady asked how old i was, and i told her 32.   she laughed...  i mean, literally LAUGHED at me, and said, "Oh, i'm sorry, you are MUCH too OLD.  we are looking for someone much younger for the job... "

i couldn't believe that she said that!  wtf?  does England NOT recognise discrimination in the workplace?  i have NEVER in my LIFE been told that i was "too old" to do a job.   good god, i am only 32... incredible...
in the U.S., i could sue her for even saying such a thing...   how rude!

 :\\\'(   

Lost Angel, you have been seriously screwed by the system. I am so sorry. You probably have a case against the clothing shop who changed their mind but it might be more effort than it's worth to pursue anything with them....

I'm assuming though that you still have or will shortly get your NIN number so as you job hunt, there won't be the huge wait this time? As you know, there actually shouldn't have been a wait. I had the same thing happen with Monsoon in that I had to show I was looking for a job in order to get the NIN. Monsoon was happy to wait for the real number to arrive. It should be pretty straight forward. If you were 'hired' by a large retailer, you might at least consider a pointed letter to their corporate HR. They need to get their staff current with NIN procedures pronto.

As for age discrimination, not sure about that. It's possible that the trainee post really is for younger people and is within legal bounds. They may get funding to help 'young' people get jobs. That said, age discrimination certainly happens in the US, it's just a lot less obvious. Here in the UK it's expected for you to have your birth date on your CV. In the US it's not, but they can certainly guess based on when you graduated, etc. My mom is 60 and looking for a new job and she's really worried about that.

I'm not aware that all Job Centre jobs are for people already on the dole. You might stop back in and check on that...frustrating as that can be.

You've had a major run of bad luck but do keep trying - your husband, too. I hope it works out for you. Do you have the kind of mortgage that allows you a grace period for this sort of thing? Keep us posted on how things go!

Wow. I agree with Balmerhon that you have really been given the short end of the stick as the clothing shop is talking cr&p about the NIN. I was more worried about not having one when I finally got a job than my employers were. In hindsight, you probably didn't want to work for them anyway if they were going to take that kind of ignorant attitude.

As for the Job Centre, that's the only place I knew to even look for a job as I wasn't familiar with the local papers. Then I realized all the jobs that I was interested in was through the same agencies so I finally just went directly to them. Perhaps that's a route you should explore? The Job Centre also has a website (which I found after I already got a job!) and it may be easier to just keep checking there instead of dealing with the staff.  They're probably just too disgruntled in having to deal with people who don't really want to find work but are forced to 'look like' they are to keep receiving their benefits. Just a guess.

When I was desperate for a job in the US many years ago, I applied for anything and had been told a few times that I was 'too old' and that was in my mid-20s!! But they put it more politely in that they said they didn't think I'd be happy (or would stay if something better came along) because the jobs were really below my past work experience and salary. I could see their point to a certain degree and it was probably true but it certainly didn't help at the time.

Keep your head up and be positive. Something will come along for both of you and you may wind up happier than you've ever been.

At least now you know what your position is regarding your NIN and won't take any grief from people who can't handle a bit of a paper work challenge (as if writing down a pre-formatted temp NIN based on your birthdate and sex is really that difficult). I would, however, write a polite letter to the head of the clothing chain advising them of the lack of knowledge of their staff and how they have missed out on a cultural benefit in having you employed at one of their stores. Kind of a 'you snooze, you lose' type of thing but a lot more flowery! 

Good luck though.....things will get better so long as you don't drown in self doubt.

Have a balloon!   

oh, and here is another fun one...
another job that was available was for a hairdresser trainee at a local beauty shop.   its like an apprentice thing where they send you to college 1 day a week, and you work at the shop 4 days a week and get hands on training... eventually recieving a degree as a hairdresser.  (it costs thousands of $$$ in the states for the college programs...)    anyway, i called the place to see if i could schedule an interview.  the lady asked how old i was, and i told her 32.   she laughed...  i mean, literally LAUGHED at me, and said, "Oh, i'm sorry, you are MUCH too OLD.  we are looking for someone much younger for the job... "

What you are describing above is called a Modern Apprenticeship.  My son was just accepted into that programme so I familiar with it.  The programme is designed for people 16-24; however, it is my understanding that after 19, you must pay for the programme.

Basically you choose a path (my son picked Vehicle Maintenance and Repair) offered by your local college.  Four days per week you work at a business learning the skills of the trade, then one day per week you go to college for formal learning and additional key skills training.

Whilst there is an opportunity to be employed by the business, you will most likely receive a placement instead.  The placement guarantees you £40/week which is paid by the Government.  They also pay your travel to and from work and college.

I agree that the woman could have handled the phone call with better diplomacy; however, she is correct when she says that you are too old for the placement.

Yikes. You've had a perfectly horrible experience, no question about it!  I'm so sorry this happend and that you've had to go through so much to just get an honest job. 

my recent experience trying to find work...

i couldn't believe that she said that!  wtf?  does England NOT recognise discrimination in the workplace?  i have NEVER in my LIFE been told that i was "too old" to do a job.   good god, i am only 32... incredible...
in the U.S., i could sue her for even saying such a thing...   how rude!

 :\\\'(   

Unfortunately, the employment laws here in the UK do not specifically say that basing recruitment on age is illegal.  There is definitely a culture of hiring younger people here, especially for entry level jobs.  I've had recruitment agencies actually *ask* me what age I wanted to hire.....which I find really offensive. 

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that more people of a certain age here are able to stop working due to pensions, etc.  Seeing an older person working in this country is a bit more rare, certainly.  There's no elderly 'greeters' at shops, and no elderly people working at any McDonalds or any other place I have been to.  Whereas I know they were very common back home. 

Anyway, I'm really sorry you've had a hard time, sweetie.  Hang in there. 

I'm going to pop this thread over into the Job section - - -
and add my hugs to you. (((hug)))

That woman at the Job Centre was stupid. Not eligible... what a load of crap. Anyone can use the job services. I think it's the Job Centre Plus which is for people on benefits. Stupid stupid woman.

Here's what I recommend you do:

Firstly, apply with every agency in your town (if you haven't already). If you have already then phone  them up letting them know you're still up for work.

Secondly, go to your nearest Job Centre in person and look at  their jobs (those public computers they have) and speak to an advisor. Tell him you'd like an interview with 'such and such' job. They'll arrange it. I can't believe that woman turned you away.

And finally, get a bottle of wine and get really pissed. Girl, you deserve it. You got really screwed. 'red tape' my butt. All they had to do was give you a temporary NIN. You had to do the rest. I'd phone up that guy and tell him he's an idiot. In fact, give me the number, I'll phone him.

  Keep your chin up hon. And let us know what happens.

Hi Angel sorry you have been having such a rough time job hunting wise. Not having seen you around much on the forum lately I had assumed you had found something and were too busy to post, now I see you have probably been too worn out with all the battling!  That whole NIN fiasco sucks. It probably won't make you feel any better to know that my hubby has gone through similar - and still is after nearly a year of job hunting. 

Job centres are depressing (I should know I worked in one for six months!). I think you are better off with agencies and the local paper and good ole word of mouth. I wish I could suggest something else but other than winning the lottery those are the main options.

I'm so sorry about your husband's job too, that is really terrible. I do hope something comes along soon for him as well. I agree with Ashley, go get sloshed and think about something else for a while.

Good luck and keep letting off steam here if that helps!

Lost Angel, I've got a lot of empathy for you. I went through much the same when I first got here. The only comfort I can offfer is it may be hard going for you right now but when you learn the ropes it all becomes a lot easier. Hang in there.

Lost Angel,

I worked at the Gap in England this past year... They issued me a temp NIN number-- ANY retail store in England can. I got the papers to get an "official" NIN a few months after starting my work there. I don't understand why the clothes shop said they couldn't issue you a temp NIN; sounds quite lazy to me. Good luck on your quest. 

...And finally, get a bottle of wine and get really pissed. Girl, you deserve it. You got really screwed. 'red tape' my butt. All they had to do was give you a temporary NIN. You had to do the rest. I'd phone up that guy and tell him he's an idiot. In fact, give me the number, I'll phone him.

lol
nice one... 
thanx everyone for the advice, and for the support.   i have been pretty frustrated lately, due to circumstances.

balmerhon wrote:
You probably have a case against the clothing shop who changed their mind but it might be more effort than it's worth to pursue anything with them....

i agree, balmerhon.  i haven't the effort or the time for that, although it has crossed my mind.  also, we have this next month where we don't have to pay our mortgage, which helps us out a bit.   its funny, that if you are renting a place, and you lose your job, etc, you can get gov't help to pay it for you right away...  but if you own a home, you must be out of work for 36 weeks before they give you any help, which, by then, the house will have already been lost.
aaah... the good old "system".   

Caitlinn wrote:
What you are describing above is called a Modern Apprenticeship.  My son was just accepted into that programme so I familiar with it.  The programme is designed for people 16-24; however, it is my understanding that after 19, you must pay for the programme.

Caitlinn... do you know who i might contact for more info on that?     maybe the local university?  i am still interested in pursuing that in the future, if its possible for someone as OLD as me to participate...    *lol* even if i have to pay for the schooling on my own.


anyway, i think that i WILL contact the head office of that shop, and let them know how poorly the situation was handled, as soon as i can find the written law, etc, to quote directly.  maybe the next "out-of-towner" that applies for a job with them won't have to deal with the hassle that i did. 

thanx again for the support, everyone.  i really need it...


Angel
xoxox

Caitlinn... do you know who i might contact for more info on that?     maybe the local university?  i am still interested in pursuing that in the future, if its possible for someone as OLD as me to participate...    *lol* even if i have to pay for the schooling on my own.

You are best to start with a local college -- that's what we did.  Just check to see whether they do modern apprenticeships.  Good luck!

Hello

I used to live in Derby and I am also quite sympathetic to how much "red tape" can get you down.  The only thing I can suggest is to keep looking, I could suggest a place I worked when I was there.  It was a good way to make a lot of money if you are willing to work hard and they don't care if you have a NI number...they didn't even know my student visa was up till I told them I was leaving.  Pierre Victoire on Friar Gate.  Base pay was 4.50 but it worked out to way more with tips and the people who work there are great. And the customers love to hear an American accent.   British people tipping if you can beleive it   A lot of places in Derby let me work with out a NI number, they will just assign a temporary one for you till you get your regular one.  Good luck! 

Jaclyn

Hang in there, Angel. Sorry to hear of your difficulties.