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Topic: UK or international student if you now live in the UK  (Read 3203 times)

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UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« on: June 26, 2010, 09:45:05 PM »
I am exploring my masters but unsure if my fees fall into the UK/EU or International Fees. I currently live, work and pay tax under a spousal visa. If anyone can let me know that would be lovely. Looking to start my MA in sept 2011
Exchange student visa 08/02 | Bunac visa 05/03 | Student visa 08/03 | Work visa 07/07  |  Married Stateside 27/09/09 | Spousal visa 04/11/09 | Returned to UK 5/12/09 | Settlement Visa (ILR) via post 05/12 | British Citizenship Checking Appointment 13/06/13 | Payment/Process notification 18/06/13 | British Citizenship approved 28/06/13 | Ceremony 21/08/2013 BRITISH CITIZEN!


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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 09:50:43 PM »
You can't qualify UK/EU home fees until you have been in the UK for 3 years on the first day of your course AND you hold ILR. If you will have ILR and will have been in the UK for 3 years by Sept 2011, then you will qualify for home fees, otherwise you will have to pay international fees.

The same goes for UK/EU citizens returning to the UK after being ordinarily resident in a non-EU country... they have to wait 3 years before they can qualify for home fees again.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 09:53:23 PM by ksand24 »


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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 10:56:39 AM »
If you will have ILR and will have been in the UK for 3 years by Sept 2011, then you will qualify for home fees, otherwise you will have to pay international fees.
Not necessarily.  It is a common myth and error that ILR is needed for "home" fee status.

If OP was already ordinarily resident in the UK when they switched to spouse leave, for any reason other than study, they could be "home" under the category "EU Nationals and Family".

See http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/info_sheets/tuition_fees_ewni.php



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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 11:10:41 AM »
Not necessarily.  It is a common myth and error that ILR is needed for "home" fee status.

If OP was already ordinarily resident in the UK when they switched to spouse leave, for any reason other than study, they could be "home" under the category "EU Nationals and Family".

See http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/info_sheets/tuition_fees_ewni.php

On the pages you just linked to it specifically states that in order to be 'settled' in the UK, you must be both ordinarily resident and free from immigration restrictions - and you can only be free from immigration restrictions if you hold either ILR or UK/EU citizenship:

Those who are 'settled' in the UK and meet the main residence requirements

In order to qualify for ‘home’ fees under this category, you must meet all of the following criteria:

(a) you must be 'settled' in the UK [see Box 1] on the 'first day of the first academic year of the course' [see Box 2], (From Box 1:
'Settled' means being both ordinarily resident in the UK and without any immigration restriction on the length of your stay in the UK.
)

AND

(b) you must be ‘ordinarily resident’ [see Box 3] in the UK on the ‘first day of the first academic year of the course’ [see Box 2],

AND

(c) you must also have been 'ordinarily resident' [see Box 3] in the UK and Islands (the Islands means the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) for the full three year period before the 'first day of the first academic year of the course'. For example, if your course begins in October 2010, you must have been ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands from 1 September 2007 to 31 August 2010,

AND

(d) the main purpose for your residence in the UK and islands must not have been to receive full-time education during any part of that three-year period.

NOTE: It is not necessary to have had 'settled' immigration status in the UK [see Box 1] for three years. (i.e. you can qualify for home fees as long as you have ILR or citizenship, but you don't need to have held ILR/citizenship for the entire 3 years)


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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 06:07:44 PM »
Those are just the requirements of Category 1: Those who are 'settled' in the UK and meet the main residence requirements.  By definition this category requires settlement.

Scroll down and you will see 9 more categories, most of which do not require settlement.  The non-settled spouse of a UK national could come under Category 3: European Union (EU) nationals and their family members, if they have been living in the EEA for three years before the first day of the first academic year.


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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 06:30:31 PM »
Those are just the requirements of Category 1: Those who are 'settled' in the UK and meet the main residence requirements.  By definition this category requires settlement.

Scroll down and you will see 9 more categories, most of which do not require settlement.  The non-settled spouse of a UK national could come under Category 3: European Union (EU) nationals and their family members, if they have been living in the EEA for three years before the first day of the first academic year.

So you'd need to be settled in another EU country rather than the UK.  I don't see how this is particularly useful either to the OP or to most people who might read this thread.  UK residents must follow UK rules, not EU ones.  For spousal visa holders, by the time they have been in the UK for three years, they should have ILR anyway and would therefore qualify under the first option, and for work visa holders who have lived in the UK for three years, they won't have settled status in the UK or three years' residence in an EU country so neither option would work for them.  The bottom line is, if you live in the UK, you have to have lived here for three years AND have settled status or you don't qualify for home fees.   
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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 06:43:48 PM »
So you'd need to be settled in another EU country rather than the UK.
Not at all!  The EEA includes the UK, so 3 years' residence in the UK is 3 years residence in the EEA.

Quote
For spousal visa holders, by the time they have been in the UK for three years, they should have ILR anyway and would therefore qualify under the first option
You are forgetting those people who were already living in the UK when they switched to spouse.  They may well accrue 3 years' ordinary residence before they gain settlement after 2 years as a spouse, and hence they could be "home" under category 3.

Quote
The bottom line is, if you live in the UK, you have to have lived here for three years AND have settled status or you don't qualify for home fees.
This is not so.


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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 06:58:16 PM »
Not at all!  The EEA includes the UK, so 3 years' residence in the UK is 3 years

This is where you're wrong.  For visa and residency purposes, UK citizens and residents must follow UK rules, which are often different from EU ones.  For example, UK citizens can't bring their spouses to the UK with EEA Family Permits, they have to have UK spousal visas.  Once your assumption that UK citizens/visa holders can be considered under EU rules is removed, none of your other arguments remain valid. 
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 07:56:17 PM »
This is where you're wrong.  For visa and residency purposes, UK citizens and residents must follow UK rules, which are often different from EU ones.  For example, UK citizens can't bring their spouses to the UK with EEA Family Permits, they have to have UK spousal visas. 

Quote
Once your assumption that UK citizens/visa holders can be considered under EU rules is removed, none of your other arguments remain valid.

This is nothing to do with with EC law or with immigration law.  The (UK) Fees and Awards regulations outline who must be charged at the "home" rate of tuition fees. In England, there are 10 such categories, as summarised in the UKCISA guidance quoted above.


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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 10:45:20 PM »
Yes, but the one you're citing and claiming applies to people who live in the UK doesn't in fact apply to them.  It applies only to people who live in other EU countries. 
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
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Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2010, 11:49:46 PM »
Yes, but the one you're citing and claiming applies to people who live in the UK doesn't in fact apply to them.  It applies only to people who live in other EU countries. 
Nonsense.  This is UK law, not EU law.  Please read the guidance and you will see that this category is for, inter alia, the "relevant family member of a UK national".  And the Residence Area is not the EU, it is the EEA (which certainly does include the UK), plus Switzerland, plus the Overseas Territories.


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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2010, 12:19:32 AM »
Either way, none of this is really relevant to the OP, since she has only been in the UK for a few months and won't reach 3 years of ordinary residence in the UK for another 2.5 years... by which time she may well be 'settled' in the UK anyway (depending on the rules for probationary citizenship, since ILR will no longer exist) and/or the home fees rules may have changed by then.

I've always been under the impression that unless you are classed as a 'non-EEA family member of an EEA national' for immigration purposes (which the OP isn't), then you cannot qualify for home fees unless you hold ILR as well as being ordinarily resident in the UK for 3 years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been a member of this site for 3.5 years now, and I have never heard anyone say otherwise in all that time - even when I've posted on other threads regarding being eligible for home fees, not once has the 'family member of an EU national' category been brought up in relation to whether the spouse of a UK citizen is eligible for home fees.

Does anyone have any examples of someone married to a UK citizen being allowed to pay home fees when they did not hold ILR? I haven't heard of it happening, but maybe that's because the majority of people on spousal visas will gain ILR before reaching 3 years of residency, so it's a moot point because by then, they meet all the criteria for Category 1 anyway.


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Re: UK or international student if you now live in the UK
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2010, 01:51:27 PM »
Does anyone have any examples of someone married to a UK citizen being allowed to pay home fees when they did not hold ILR?
Yes, especially postgrads.  I know I keep saying the same thing, but the people you describe are who Category 3 is partly aimed at. 


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