UK Marriage Visa w/multiple entries EU&US citizen-->remain+right to work?-->EEA2

Hi everyone, good morning, good afternoon or good evening (depending on where you are in the world)!

Been on here recently inquiring about marrying my German fiance who currently lives and works in England followed by obtaining the right to live and work in the UK with EEA2 residence card (http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=67216.0;all). I was told by very helpful members that the quickest way to do this was to apply for the Visitor for Marriage visa which is $112, get married in the UK, fly back to the USA, apply for EEA Family Permit (which gives 6 months right to live and work in UK), move to the UK, apply immediately for EEA2 Residence Card (which can take anywhere from 6-8 months to process, which is why it's important to obtain EEA Family Permit in the meantime).

I've grown to accept these steps as what I have to do and my fiance and I are currently in the process of booking our wedding ceremony/reception at a hotel outside of London as well as applying for a marriage license through the borough in which we wish to live as supplying information for both is necessary and needed to be included when applying for the UK Marriage Visa.

But we have come across a few problems. For one, to obtain a marriage license according to the people we contacted at the borough, we must do this rather soon and both need to be physically present with me, the non-EU/UK citizen, already in the country on a Marriage Visa for 9 days at this point. If I am out there on a Visitor Visa and not have a date stamped 9 days or more in my passport, they will not allow us to make a marriage license appointment. This seems a bit strange to me since I am subject to immigration control and wouldn't think it necessary for both parties to be present for the creation of the marriage license appointment. As this needs to be done rather soon, I will then need to fly back home to the States to continue working until the date of our wedding which is March 26th. This means I require a Marriage Visa with multiple entries.

To have this whole scenerio make more sense, this is the exact words written from my fiance in an e-mail sent to me just after she got off the phone with people at the borough:

"Honey I talked to someone on the phone from that website I sent you. He  was quite helpful and also checked with a colleage nummerous times who is an immigrations officer.
 
They say you need to apply for a  "Special marriage Visitor Visa" and request "multiply Entry". you need to tell them that you still have a job and have to return to the US after giving notice in the UK after come back for the actual wedding 2 month later.
That Visa cost 70£ he said. the office for that in in NY and you do it by post and fingerpints in Chicago.
 
Since I'm a EU citizen you DO NOT have to leave the country after we're married and can straight apply for EEA visa from here.
It would be different if I would be UK citizen, then you would have to leave afterwards.
He said it's actual easier for you to come here since I'm EU citizen.
That EEA visa takes about 8 month they say. Its a massive backlog. The goverment doesnt put too much effort in it since it is free. But you dont have to wait the 8 month he said, you get notification and can work straight away. you can also request passport back for travel reasons etc."

So my questions now are,
1) is this information given to her 100% correct?
2), how do I go about applying for this £70 (surely, the same as the $112 one?) "special marriage license with multiple entries" online? I've not seen anything of the sort when applying for the normal marriage license.
3) How is it possible to remain in the UK after I get married and quickly obtain the right to work while we wait the 8 long months for the EEA2 residence card? According to the person who talked to my fiance, this was something offered to those marring an EU citzen (not UK). Yet this goes against everything told to me before in the thread I linked to above with the only way being I need to get marriage visa, marry in uk, fly back to usa, apply for EEA Family Permit, fly back to UK, apply for EEA2 residence card?

Can anybody in the know of this process please help me out. As our wedding date quickly approaches and with me needing to fly to the UK most likely within the next week or two, I'd like to know exactly how to go about doing this. The information given from the person who talked to my fiance was quite vague and I have not found any information online regarding the process he speaks of.

Many thanks in advance,
JP

I've grown to accept these steps as what I have to do and my fiance and I are currently in the process of booking our wedding ceremony/reception at a hotel outside of London as well as applying for a marriage license through the borough in which we wish to live as supplying information for both is necessary and needed to be included when applying for the UK Marriage Visa.

But we have come across a few problems. For one, to obtain a marriage license according to the people we contacted at the borough, we must do this rather soon and both need to be physically present with me, the non-EU/UK citizen, already in the country on a Marriage Visa for 9 days at this point. If I am out there on a Visitor Visa and not have a date stamped 9 days or more in my passport, they will not allow us to make a marriage license appointment. This seems a bit strange to me since I am subject to immigration control and wouldn't think it necessary for both parties to be present for the creation of the marriage license appointment. As this needs to be done rather soon, I will then need to fly back home to the States to continue working until the date of our wedding which is March 26th. This means I require a Marriage Visa with multiple entries.

First off,  I'm a bit confused about what you're actually trying to do, because you can't actually do any of the weddings things you are trying to until you have your visit for marriage visa.

As far as I'm aware, your timetable should be as follows:

- apply for the visit for marriage visa
- fly to the UK
- wait 7 days and then give notice to marry
- you will then have to wait at least 15 days before you can marry
- get married
- apply for the EEA2 (or return to the US, apply for EEA permit, return to UK, apply for EEA2)

They say you need to apply for a  "Special marriage Visitor Visa" and request "multiply Entry". you need to tell them that you still have a job and have to return to the US after giving notice in the UK after come back for the actual wedding 2 month later.
That Visa cost 70£ he said. the office for that in in NY and you do it by post and fingerpints in Chicago.

No, this isn't quite true.

The  "Special marriage Visitor Visa" is the visit for marriage visa that you will be applying for anyway (not sure if it is multiple entry already or if you would need to request that). It costs £70 (or $112 if you are applying in the US). However, you cannot send it to Chicago, because they no longer process visas - you will send it to either LA or NY (depending on which state you live in). Your biometrics (fingerprints and photo) can be taken at any of the 129 USCIS centers across the US... they cannot be taken at the Chicago, LA or NY consulates because they do not have biometrics facilities.

One of the requirements for the visa is that you are applying as a visitor and are not planning to live in the UK afterwards, which is why you need to show ties to the US, such as a job and a home to return to. However, I'm not sure what you do in the circumstance of the EEA2 and not having to leave the UK to apply for it - I have no idea why you've been told to return to the US for 2 months to work though... never heard of that before (but then again, most people here are married to UK citizens and so I don't know anyone who has switched from a marriage visit visa to an EEA2).

1) is this information given to her 100% correct?

Not quite - see my reply just above this quote.

2), how do I go about applying for this £70 (surely, the same as the $112 one?) "special marriage license with multiple entries" online? I've not seen anything of the sort when applying for the normal marriage license.

Yes, this is the visit for marriage visa (cost $112 in the US). It is not a marriage 'licence', it is the visa that allows you to marry in the UK. You apply online using the links I gave you in your other thread: http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/applyonline/.

The normal marriage licence cannot be applied for until you have the visa, have flown to the UK and waited the required number of days to give notice to marry.

3) How is it possible to remain in the UK after I get married and quickly obtain the right to work while we wait the 8 long months for the EEA2 residence card? According to the person who talked to my fiance, this was something offered to those marring an EU citzen (not UK). Yet this goes against everything told to me before in the thread I linked to above with the only way being I need to get marriage visa, marry in uk, fly back to usa, apply for EEA Family Permit, fly back to UK, apply for EEA2 residence card?

Not sure on the right to work front... from everything I know about visa applications in the UK, when you apply for a new one, the rules of the old one apply until it has been granted. So going by that, if you entered as a visitor and applied for an EEA2, the visitor visa rules would apply to you until you have received the EEA2 (so working would be illegal). This loophole about being able to apply for the EEA2 as a visitor is special because it doesn't apply to any other visa... and there is basically no mention of it or the rules surrounding it in the visa guidance.

Can anybody in the know of this process please help me out. As our wedding date quickly approaches and with me needing to fly to the UK most likely within the next week or two, I'd like to know exactly how to go about doing this. The information given from the person who talked to my fiance was quite vague and I have not found any information online regarding the process he speaks of.

First, you need to apply for the visit for marriage visa... I would do that ASAP if you want to be in the UK in the next couple of weeks!

Hopefully someone else here will have some advice about whether you still need to prove ties to the UK (a job/home back in the US to return to) if you will be applying for an EEA2 permit in the UK afterwards.

Then, once you have arrived in the UK, you need to follow the procedure for getting married: giving notice, getting a marriage licence, waiting the required number of days in the UK before the wedding (15 days).

One of the things we got codified back in about 2006 or so was the treatment of an EU national as settled for the purposes of family formation.  And the Home Office confirmed this to me personally in writing, so it's not clear what all the hoops are about as described above.

I think ksand24's approximation of the steps is pretty good, but I'm not sure why a trip stateside is needed.  Can't any British mission handle an EEA2?  They are certainly SUPPOSED to, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to wiggle out of it.  Even if they were resorting to lying about it. 

ksand24, Thank you kindly for taking the time to respond. Apologies for not being 100% clear.

First off,  I'm a bit confused about what you're actually trying to do, because you can't actually do any of the weddings things you are trying to until you have your visit for marriage visa.

I was unaware that I needed a visit for marriage visa before giving notice to marry. According to the online visit to marriage visa application (Part 7 > Visitor Information > Marriage Visitor > Question 1), it is asked "What arrangements have been made for either notification of the marriage or civil partnership or for the marriage or civil partnership ceremony?" This lead me to believe that notice to marry plus venue booking was needed before applying for the visa. As this is not the case, what is a good response to put for this question? "Contacted borough in regards to intent to marry. Visitor Marriage Visa needed before making appointment. Also contacted [name of hotel] for wedding ceremony/reception, booked for March 26th, 2011"? Will this answer be sufficient, or will evidence be needed? Also, how do I answer the question, "Nationality and or permission to enter or remain in the UK, of your fiance(e) or proposed civil partner"? Should I just put "Fiance is an EU citizen working and living in the UK"? I'm also still a bit hazy on the details as to how to obtain the privledge of multiple entries on the visit to marriage visa. Perhaps there will be a section on the online application which will ask, "Will multiple entries be necessary?" but I am not that far into the application yet.

you cannot send it to Chicago, because they no longer process visas - you will send it to either LA or NY (depending on which state you live in). Your biometrics (fingerprints and photo) can be taken at any of the 129 USCIS centers across the US... they cannot be taken at the Chicago, LA or NY consulates because they do not have biometrics facilities.

The bolded bit I was aware of. I will be applying through the New York facility using the $150 express courier service so that the Visa will be processed rather quickly and I'll be allowed to enter the country to make notification of intent to marry within the next few weeks. You mention 7 days. The person who talked to my fiance mentioned 9. How many days exactly do I need to be out there before legally being able to make notification of marriage?

Your biometrics (fingerprints and photo) can be taken at any of the 129 USCIS centers across the US... they cannot be taken at the Chicago, LA or NY consulates because they do not have biometrics facilities.

So in other words, I will be needing to travel to another city to have my biometrics done? As far as I remember, I was able to have my biometrics testing and photos done quite close to where I live (just 30 miles outside of Chicago) in 2008 when preparing for my 2 year work permit. Has this since changed?

I have no idea why you've been told to return to the US for 2 months to work though... never heard of that before

I haven't been told to return to the US for 2 months to work. As our marriage is not planned until March 26th, I wanted to continue working here in the US up until March 18th, so after flying to the UK and waiting the 7-9 days followed by making notification of intent to marry, I will fly back home to the USA to work for another month or two before flying out to the UK to marry.

Hope this clears up a few misclarifications!

By the way, exactly what evidence and documents will be needed to accompany the online application when applying for the Visit to Marriage Visa? I'm aware my Passport will be needing to be included. How about my fiance's? As well, is a letter of intent to marry from both parties, evidence of having met in the last two years (copies of travel tickets, personal statements, etc) needed for this Visa? Or is the UK Visitor Marriage Visa more straight forward and all that needing to be saved for the EEA2 process?

EDIT: Just saw ksand24's response in another thread which some-what answers question above. Quote below

You will be applying for a 'marriage visitor' visa (completely different type of visa to the one being talked about on this thread) and the requirements you need to meet/documents you need are listed on these pages:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visitingtheuk/visitors/documents/

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visitingtheuk/marriage-cp-visitors/eligible/

My current plan of attack with given information known at this point:

Step 1) Apply for Visitor Marriage Visa with privledge to have multiply entries to the UK, expedite this via $150 courier service. Have in hand within next few days if possible.

Step 0.5 or 1.5) Biometric testing.
Question: Will I need biometric testing done before Visitor Marriage Visa sent out? Or is biometric testing appointment made after the Visitor Marriage Visa was applied for? [somebody please clarify the process needed for this]

Step 2) Recieve Visitor Marriage Visa, fly to the UK, bringing with me pay slips, bank account statements and letter from employer stating they give approval of me leaving for however long needed to sort out notification of marriage/marriage license

Step 3) Wait 7-9 days, notify borough that we intend to to marry. Recieve marriage license? (or does marriage license come after we marry March 26th?) [somebody please clarify]

Step 4) Fly back to the USA. Work until March 18th.

Step 5) Fly to the UK again on Visitor Marriage Visa (2nd entry on this Visa). Get married March 26th

Step 6) Hope to stay in UK retrieving right to work + requesting to get passport back (how do I go about doing this?) as EEA2 residence card processes for 6-8 weeks.


Please correct any mistakes listed above!

I was unaware that I needed a visit for marriage visa before giving notice to marry. According to the online visit to marriage visa application (Part 7 > Visitor Information > Marriage Visitor > Question 1), it is asked "What arrangements have been made for either notification of the marriage or civil partnership or for the marriage or civil partnership ceremony?" This lead me to believe that notice to marry plus venue booking was needed before applying for the visa. As this is not the case, what is a good response to put for this question? "Contacted borough in regards to intent to marry. Visitor Marriage Visa needed before making appointment. Also contacted [name of hotel] for wedding ceremony/reception, booked for March 26th, 2011"? Will this answer be sufficient, or will evidence be needed?

Basically, they want to see that you have started to make plans - you do need evidence of this, but a simple email to the registry office asking about possible dates and procedures for giving notice (and their reply) is all you actually need. If you have made any other arrangements for the wedding at all, you can include evidence of them too.

Also, how do I answer the question, "Nationality and or permission to enter or remain in the UK, of your fiance(e) or proposed civil partner"? Should I just put "Fiance is an EU citizen working and living in the UK"?

Yes, that sounds fine . All you can do is tell the truth .

I'm also still a bit hazy on the details as to how to obtain the privledge of multiple entries on the visit to marriage visa. Perhaps there will be a section on the online application which will ask, "Will multiple entries be necessary?" but I am not that far into the application yet.

I'm not sure - maybe if it doesn't ask the question, you could put it in a cover letter instead? Again, I'm not sure if the visa is automatically multiple-entry or if you have to ask for it to be.

The bolded bit I was aware of. I will be applying through the New York facility using the $150 express courier service so that the Visa will be processed rather quickly and I'll be allowed to enter the country to make notification of intent to marry within the next few weeks

I'm afraid I mis-read part of the email that you quoted from your fiance and thought they'd advised you to send the application to Chicago! When I realised the mistake though, I kept it in just in case you weren't aware.

You mention 7 days. The person who talked to my fiance mentioned 9. How many days exactly do I need to be out there before legally being able to make notification of marriage?

The exact number of days is specified by the registry office where you will be married. However, I believe that in general it is 7 days for everywhere in the UK, then 15 days between giving notice and being able to marry (See: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Marriagesandcivilpartnerships/DG_175717)

So in other words, I will be needing to travel to another city to have my biometrics done? As far as I remember, I was able to have my biometrics testing and photos done quite close to where I live (just 30 miles outside of Chicago) in 2008 when preparing for my 2 year work permit. Has this since changed?

Sorry, I didn't notice that you actually lived in Chicago... in that case, there are 2 biometrics locations in Chicago where you can have your biometrics taken - but you can't actually get them done at the official consulate (I thought the person talking to your fiance meant that you had to go to the Chicago consulate for it).

I haven't been told to return to the US for 2 months to work. As our marriage is not planned until March 26th, I wanted to continue working here in the US up until March 18th, so after flying to the UK and waiting the 7-9 days followed by making notification of intent to marry, I will fly back home to the USA to work for another month or two before flying out to the UK to marry.

Ah, okay - I read it that you've been told to do this. My only concern is that I've always thought you actually had to be present in the UK for the full number of days before marrying (7 days + 15 days = 22 days), so I'm not sure if you leaving the UK after giving notice would work or not (hopefully someone else can clarify this).

I guess what I'm not really understanding is your need to go to the UK now to give notice to marry and then return to the US to work until the wedding. Why not just work until the end of February (and apply for the visa during that time) and then fly to the UK to get married, leaving enough time to give notice before March 26th (the required 22 days)?

My current plan of attack with given information known at this point:

Step 1) Apply for Visitor Marriage Visa with privledge to have multiply entries to the UK, expedite this via $150 courier service. Have in hand within next few days if possible.

Step 0.5 or 1.5) Biometric testing.
Question: Will I need biometric testing done before Visitor Marriage Visa sent out? Or is biometric testing appointment made after the Visitor Marriage Visa was applied for? [somebody please clarify the process needed for this]

-You apply online for the visa, then you pay and book a biometrics appointment (this could be a few days later, depending on when the earliest available appointment is). Then you print out your completed application and biometrics appointment sheet

- You attend your biometrics appointment

- Within 14 days of your biometrics appointment, you have to send your printed out application form, the biometrics sheet (which will now be stamped) and all your documents (pay slips, bank statements, evidence of intent to marry, letter from employer, evidence of a home in the US etc.) to the NY consulate. You must purchase the priority processing on the same day that you send the application.

Step 2) Recieve Visitor Marriage Visa, fly to the UK, bringing with me pay slips, bank account statements and letter from employer stating they give approval of me leaving for however long needed to sort out notification of marriage/marriage license

No, you have to send all that information (evidence) to NY with your visa application (pay slips, bank statements etc.), so all you should need when you fly is your passport with visa inside.

You would only bring those things with you if you were a normal visitor and had not applied for a visa in advance.

Step 3) Wait 7-9 days, notify borough that we intend to to marry. Recieve marriage license? (or does marriage license come after we marry March 26th?) [somebody please clarify]

Should be 7 days (see my link above). I'm not sure about a marriage licence because I've only heard of people giving notice and then marrying... with no mention of whether or not they got a marriage licence (or if they even needed one)

Step 4) Fly back to the USA. Work until March 18th.

Step 5) Fly to the UK again on Visitor Marriage Visa (2nd entry on this Visa). Get married March 26th

This will depend on whether you can get a multiple entry visa and whether it is alright for you to leave the UK between giving notice and actually marrying (I can't see this mentioned in the link I gave above).

Step 6) Hope to stay in UK retrieving right to work + requesting to get passport back (how do I go about doing this?) as EEA2 residence card processes for 6-8 weeks.

Again, not sure about right to work (hopefully someone else can help). I think you can just contact them and request your passport back - details of how to contact them are on the EEA2 application form: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/eea/eea21.pdf

Step 1) Apply for Visitor Marriage Visa with privledge to have multiply entries to the UK, expedite this via $150 courier service. Have in hand within next few days if possible.

Step 0.5 or 1.5) Biometric testing.
Question: Will I need biometric testing done before Visitor Marriage Visa sent out? Or is biometric testing appointment made after the Visitor Marriage Visa was applied for? [somebody please clarify the process needed for this]

1. Submit online application.
2. Schedule biometrics appointment at same time you submit & pay your visa fee.
3. Attend appointment.
4. Purchase priority service on the day you send out your application to Consualte for processing.
5. Send application, supporting documents, passport, priority service receipt & Biometrics appointment sheet to Consulate within 14 calendar days of having biometrics taken.

Step 6) Hope to stay in UK retrieving right to work + requesting to get passport back (how do I go about doing this?) as EEA2 residence card processes for 6-8 weeks.

You won't be able to work in the UK until you receive your EEA2 back approved, because you're applying for the EEA2 while you're in the UK as a visitor. Visitors are not allowed to work in the UK.

Also I've seen it take about 6 months to get the EEA2 back, unless something has changed recently.

From the EEA2 application guidance:

If you need your passport because you have to travel urgently and unexpectedly, call 0845 010 5200 and provide the personal and other details listed immediately above.

Many thanks to you both for clearing this up!

You won't be able to work in the UK until you receive your EEA2 back approved, because you're applying for the EEA2 while you're in the UK as a visitor. Visitors are not allowed to work in the UK.

If that's the case, my only question is why was my fiance told otherwise?

Quote from initial post, advice given to my fiance from an immigration officer:

Since I'm a EU citizen you DO NOT have to leave the country after we're married and can straight apply for EEA visa from here.
It would be different if I would be UK citizen, then you would have to leave afterwards.
He said it's actual easier for you to come here since I'm EU citizen.
That EEA visa takes about 8 month they say. Its a massive backlog. The goverment doesnt put too much effort in it since it is free. But you dont have to wait the 8 month he said, you get notification and can work straight away. you can also request passport back for travel reasons etc

If you get a letter of confirmation of application that says you can work then you can use that to try to gain employment...but good luck in finding an employer that will risk a £10,000 fine on a black & white letter from UKBA. Most people who apply for the EEA 2 come in on an EEA FP, which does carry the right to work. But I do recall there being a distinction between those applying from a visitor status to those applying from a EEA FP status and that being that FP holders can work while the visitors had to wait until their EEA 2 was processed.

Again, that is based on others experiences and what I have seen here on UKY in the past 4 years.

In regards to what ksand24 wrote,

My only concern is that I've always thought you actually had to be present in the UK for the full number of days before marrying (7 days + 15 days = 22 days), so I'm not sure if you leaving the UK after giving notice would work or not (hopefully someone else can clarify this).

Do I have to 100% for sure be in the UK for the full 22 days before getting married then? Or am I able to fly out to the UK to express intent to marry to the council, fly back, etc?

Our concern with waiting until March 1st to fly out there is that the lady from the council said we need to apply soon to make sure they have a registrar available on the day of our marriage (March 26th). It would be an utter nightmare to have everything planned and then be given notice that nobody is available to marry us on the 26th!

By the way, just did a bit of research. The council in which we intend to marry has a 9 day minimum before giving intent to marry. Apparently all councils are different in this.

If you get a letter of confirmation of application that says you can work then you can use that to try to gain employment...but good luck in finding an employer that will risk a £10,000 fine on a black & white letter from UKBA. Most people who apply for the EEA 2 come in on an EEA FP, which does carry the right to work. But I do recall there being a distinction between those applying from a visitor status to those applying from a EEA FP status and that being that FP holders can work while the visitors had to wait until their EEA 2 was processed.

Again, that is based on others experiences and what I have seen here on UKY in the past 4 years.

So that is the only evidence I can obtain, a black and white letter of confirmation of application that says I can work from UKBA? Certainly, if it states I have the right to work and it is coming from UKBA, this should be sufficient enough?

So that is the only evidence I can obtain, a black and white letter of confirmation of application that says I can work from UKBA? Certainly, if it states I have the right to work and it is coming from UKBA, this should be sufficient enough?

You'd think, but you can find copies of that letter posted all over the internet and everyone's got a printer...think about it. Not many employers will risk it.

You'd think, but you can find copies of that letter posted all over the internet and everyone's got a printer...think about it. Not many employers will risk it.

Best off spending a bit of extra money and flying home after the marriage then, expediting the EEA Family Permit via $150 courier service, and return to the UK hopefully within a week or two.

Your help has been immense, as always.

Now what happens if I have a job and the 6 months from the EEA Family Permit is quickly approaching and I've not received the EEA2 yet?

Best off spending a bit of extra money and flying home after the marriage then, expediting the EEA Family Permit via $150 courier service, and return to the UK hopefully within a week or two.

Your help has been immense, as always.

Now what happens if I have a job and the 6 months from the EEA Family Permit is quickly approaching and I've not received the EEA2 yet?

If working right away is of the most importance to you this is probably the best course of action.

If you have an EEA Family Permit and you apply for the EEA 2 Residence Card before your FP expires, your FP will automatically be extended until a decision has been reached on your EEA 2 application. Your letter from UKBA upon making your EEA 2 application will state this. Also have a Certified copy of your passport details page & your EEA FP done before submitting the EEA 2 application that way you have all your documentation should an employer request it.