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Topic: Retiring from work in the UK  (Read 2356 times)

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Retiring from work in the UK
« on: April 01, 2011, 11:39:07 AM »
This post is primarily for those close to retirement, or retiring, in the UK. It may not be of interest to most members of UKY.

It is possible a few USC’s, working (and retiring) in the UK may be facing an option to retire from employers forced to reduce large staff numbers. They may be concerned about the financial realities of retirement. Their US citizenship puts them in a unique position in relation to the normal UK and US retiree. Books on retirement finances invariably concentrate on strategies for one country only, with no consideration of taxes, options, or regulations of another.

Seeking advice and making decisions on pensions can be confusing, along with the many tax implications. No one on a public forum can sensibly comment on another person’s pension situation. The intention therefore is to offer those not yet retired some insight into the considerations made, and the outcomes experienced, by others. The following are experiences of a USC retired from the UK private sector. I can’t comment on UK public sector retirement, so hopefully someone will relate experiences there.

I took early retirement 5 years ago. A long time resident in the UK/Europe, I never considered US retirement vehicles (Roth, 40whatever, etc.). Due to US tax implications, I chose not to take the normal UK tax free lump sum distribution from my UK occupational pension. The US implications were compounded by an early retirement redundancy payment, a portion of which was also tax free in the UK.

I receive various occupational (final salary) and State pensions, along with asset income. I avoid stocks/shares. For me, the US capital gains tax based on exchange rate variances, in addition to the ups and downs of the market, create an overly complicated environment should I need to sell. I once barely escaped paying US capital gains tax when liquidating a UK shares ISA that had a 25% loss on it. Due to US taxes (Schedule D), exchange rates may influence the choice to sell the house, if it were an option.
 
At the point of retirement, be aware of US tax brackets and thresholds. Exchange rates can play a large part. After retirement, US tax reporting can be complicated. It’s my understanding that the IRS allows a reduction for your contributions to pension and annuity schemes (within rules). If you choose NOT to invoke the treaty, the IRS will allow a 15% reduction (married filing separately), or more (married filing jointly), on US Social Security payments (within rules). Both are calculated prior to AGI. There are no such opportunities for reductions in the UK. Instead, if your income is below £24,000 (2011/12), you receive a larger personal allowance. The tax implications at the point of retirement in the UK are usually related to 20/40/50% tax bands, but long term tax planning is essential prior to retirement. If you collect more than £28,930 (2011/12, from all taxable sources) a year, you pay exactly the same taxes as someone working with the same income. It’s my understanding HMRC only tax 90% of income remitted to the UK from many foreign pensions (within residence and domicile rules).

The base amount paid out from a pension is fixed (but many are index linked) for the remainder of your life. After you’ve taken a pension, you can’t quit and find another paying more. You find many calculators that project the funds required at retirement. If you won’t achieve that figure, then the most frequently asked yet unanswered questions are “Can I afford to retire?” and “How long will the funds last?”

I strongly believe it is impossible to accurately predict retirement finances further ahead than the next 30 seconds, but just in case….. I created a spreadsheet projecting my situation at the point of retirement forward for 30 years (a commonly used practice). I compared differing 30 year scenarios by altering the value of ‘variables’ for each scenario. I settled on the following variables: occupational pensions (2% yearly increase), investments (4% return yearly), Old Age pensions (1% yearly increase), and a yearly inflation rate of 7.5% for both essential and discretionary spending. (Discretionary spending remains an important variable). CPI increases on pensions are insignificant when faced with rising inflation. I tried to overcompensate, but future years may prove 7.5% inadequate. Analysis over the last 5 years shows a 4.8% true yearly average inflation rate on my essential spending such as council tax, insurance, utilities, etc., in spite of a 5 year UK average CPI of 2.7%. I also calculate the tax situation throughout. Please understand that performing any such calculations can only result in a guess and not reliable figures, particularly for the later years of retirement.

Final salary pensions are a saving grace. It’s unfortunate many no longer have access to them. The 5 years of retirement have been financially comfortable, but inflation will always reverse the situation, given enough time, no matter how large anyone’s pension pot.

I thought this might encourage others to share their planning or retirement experiences, creating an awareness of what needs to be considered for those not yet retired, particularly those with other types of plans (defined contribution, annuities, etc.). Again, this post may be of most interest to those contemplating retirement in the UK in the near future.

As always, I am neither a professional financial nor tax advisor. Opinions expressed, or actions I have taken, may well be incorrect.


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2011, 11:40:40 AM »
I have the following personal thoughts from my own experience for those thinking about retirement. Again, these are my opinions only.

1. At least 10 years before you retire, consider using Foreign Tax Credits (Form 1116) for general and passive income instead of the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (Form 2555) if it results in excess tax credits and doesn’t result in higher taxation. You will have to use the FTC (passive) after retirement if you have no earned income and need to offset UK taxes paid.

2. Pick your time of retirement carefully if you’re able. It all has to do with tax brackets and thresholds, and how far you’re into the tax year.

3. Understand the US tax implications of lump sum distributions, postponed receipt of pensions, UK redundancy payments, any other large lump sum payment, or exercising employee stock options. Understand the reductions when collecting a pension early, and the influence of varying exchange rates on income, gains, and payouts.

4. If you purchased your current home prior to 7 May 1997, and postponed gains from a prior sale (Form 2119), confirm the basis price when contemplating selling the home. Gains on homes are tax free in the UK (within rules), but there is a limited exclusion amount in the US (within rules) after which gains are taxed.

5. Investigate all possible sources of pension income you may be entitled to, including Social Security or State pensions, and pursue them with vigour.

6. You can not accurately predict year to year retirement expenses. But, careful planning will offer much improved prospects.

7. Tax legislation changes yearly. Pension schemes can change. Private schemes can go bust. As we’ve learned, any market really can go down as well as up. Be prepared for some surprises.

Again, these are my opinions only based on my own experience. I’m sure there may be disagreements. I would hope others may have some additions.   


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 03:38:11 PM »
I'm in a slightly different position. I'm a UK/US dual citizen working in the US, but planning to retire in the UK. One recent development in UK taxation that is potentially expensive is the proposal to combine NI and income tax. There will probably be tax credits for UK retirees, ie those getting UK state pensions, but if I return to the UK before that my income tax bill might be around 30%....

Still that's all in the future and who knows what will happen.

I have paid 25 years of UK voluntary NI (and I will continue up to 30 years) so I will get a UK state pension, and I have 14 years of US SS too. I have no UK tax liability as all my investments and retirement accounts are in the US.

My plan is to leave my tax deferred retirement accounts in the US and before I leave the US I'll move as much of them as I can to a ROTH so that there will be no income tax due on wthdrawals in the US or the UK. The tax deferred funds will be invested in equities and bonds. The after tax funds present another problem as PFIC rules mean I don't want to put them in UK equity funds and if I keep them in US mutual funds HMRC will tax any gains as income. I could invest in individual stocks, but I think I might just put the money in UK high interest saving accounts and a cash ISA to avoid some UK taxation and make the taxes easy. That will also give me a few years cash buffer.

Part of my strategy is also to minimize my need for income in retirement. So with the proceeds from the sale of my US house I'll buy a UK house, car etc.

As I am a UK citizen probably returning to live permanently in the UK and a US citizen I'll be taxable on my worldwide income by both the UK and the US, so I will definitely be getting a professional to do my taxes for the first couple of years to make sure I don't mess up FBAR or FATCA filings and HMRC self assessment is a complete mistery to me.


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 02:56:14 PM »
... Part of my strategy is also to minimize my need for income in retirement. So with the proceeds from the sale of my US house I'll buy a UK house, car etc.
...

I agree with this.  My wife and I plan to retire at the end of 2012, when we'll both be 62.  I hear from so many friends & colleagues.. "You're so lucky to be able to retire.  I won't be able to retire till I'm 80..."  Well, no, if you still have a mortgage, credit card debt and you get a car loan to buy a new car every four years, no, you will never be able to retire.  Retire all debt; save a reasonable proportion of your income; minimise the need for income in retirement, that has been our strategy for quite a few years.

We also live & work in the US and are planning to buy a home and retire in the UK.  I'm a dual UK/US citizen, and my wife had ILR back in the 70s/80s but unfortunately we walked away from it.. with hindsight obviously she should have got her UK citizenship before we left the UK in 1991.   

We have retirement savings in 403b accounts and similar (also SS and a NYS pension) and have not yet got too much idea of the intricacies of UK/US retirement planning 


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 03:07:24 PM »
I sympathize with NightDragon's wife's situation, as I also had ILR and naively gave it up when I returned to the US for family reasons. I'm planning to return to the UK in 2012 (fortunately having obtained an Irish passport) and will be retired. I did some part-time work for 4 or 5 years in the UK but not enough for a pension on my own. I will get something from US social security and a (small) work pension but we will have to rely on husband's (UKC) work pension and eventually the state pension.
Already beginning to stress about the US tax forms, etc.
>^.^<
Married and moved to UK 1974
Returned to US 1995
Irish citizenship June 2009
    Irish passport September 2009 
Retirement July 2012
Leeds in 2013!
ILR (Long Residence) 22 March 2016


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 04:34:46 PM »
Might want to keep an eye on medical expenses too, there is a move on in the US to slash medicare and medicaid.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/04/house-republicans-propose-deep-cuts-to-medicare/
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 05:09:14 PM »
Well, no, if you still have a mortgage, credit card debt and you get a car loan to buy a new car every four years, no, you will never be able to retire.  Retire all debt; save a reasonable proportion of your income; minimise the need for income in retirement, that has been our strategy for quite a few years. 

And I agree with this. It's taken 5 years to relax a little about saving. I still save each year (in addition to reinvesting all returns). Once you understand the importance of saving, it's hard not to continue.

Might want to keep an eye on medical expenses too, there is a move on in the US to slash medicare and medicaid.

If anyone is entitled to Medicare, take it even though you live abroad. In addition to travel insurance, it might come in handy if you're visiting the US and need it. Of course, that's the only time you'll be able to use it, unless Congress puts a stop to that as well.


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 06:10:31 PM »

If anyone is entitled to Medicare, take it even though you live abroad. In addition to travel insurance, it might come in handy if you're visiting the US and need it. Of course, that's the only time you'll be able to use it, unless Congress puts a stop to that as well.
Yes, especially since they take a chunk out of your Social Security benefit to go to Medicare.
I'll also be entitled to a Medigap policy from my employer. Choice of 3 different plans (none of which would be of use overseas of course) Based on my years of service I would have to pay 47% of the total rate (could be $26 - $198, depending on which plan I choose). There is also a retiree dental plan which would cost $52 for myself alone. I'm debating whether to get the cheapest Medicare HMO should I ever return to the US or even if I'm visiting.
>^.^<
Married and moved to UK 1974
Returned to US 1995
Irish citizenship June 2009
    Irish passport September 2009 
Retirement July 2012
Leeds in 2013!
ILR (Long Residence) 22 March 2016


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2011, 08:13:04 PM »
I agree with this.  My wife and I plan to retire at the end of 2012, when we'll both be 62.  I hear from so many friends & colleagues.. "You're so lucky to be able to retire.  I won't be able to retire till I'm 80..."  Well, no, if you still have a mortgage, credit card debt and you get a car loan to buy a new car every four years, no, you will never be able to retire.  Retire all debt; save a reasonable proportion of your income; minimise the need for income in retirement, that has been our strategy for quite a few years.

We also live & work in the US and are planning to buy a home and retire in the UK.  I'm a dual UK/US citizen, and my wife had ILR back in the 70s/80s but unfortunately we walked away from it.. with hindsight obviously she should have got her UK citizenship before we left the UK in 1991.   

We have retirement savings in 403b accounts and similar (also SS and a NYS pension) and have not yet got too much idea of the intricacies of UK/US retirement planning 

I'd definitely look at the numbers connected with rolling over any 403b, IRA etc money into a ROTH IRA before you return to the UK. If you can spend a few low income years in the US you could fill up your 15% tax bracket with IRA to ROTH rollovers. ROTHs are tax free in the UK as well as the US. UK income tax looks as if it's on the way up and if NI gets rolled into income tax the rate could jump by 12%. US taxes will eventually have to rise as well so locking in 15% total tax on your retirement savings now is probably a good move.

My plan is to retire in my early 50s and take maybe 5 years to do ROTH rollovers to get everything into tax free accounts before I move to the UK for the healthcare as Medicare is in even worse shape than the NHS.



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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2011, 07:54:42 PM »
I'm going to reply in more length later to share my experience - there are many of traps for the unwary and you can help yourself a lot with pre-planning
Right at the moment however I'm curious about this plan to convert traditional IRAs to Roths. Why does that make the distribution free of UK tax?


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Re: Retiring from work in the UK
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 05:33:07 PM »
I'm going to reply in more length later to share my experience - there are many of traps for the unwary and you can help yourself a lot with pre-planning
Right at the moment however I'm curious about this plan to convert traditional IRAs to Roths. Why does that make the distribution free of UK tax?

ROTHs are covered in the US/UK Tax treaty and they are tax free in the UK to the same extent that they are tax free in the US, ie no tax on gains and no tax on withdrawals. Of course the transfer from the IRA to the ROTH is taxable as income which is why I suggested to do it before returning to the UK.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 05:44:10 PM by nun »


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