A refreshing lack of bureaucracy...

It's common to be apprehensive about dealing with big bureaucracies. It's certainly not something I enjoy.  

So it's a pleasure to say that most of my dealings with British bureaucracy have been surprisingly easy and straightforward.

A former business partner of mine formed a limited U.K. company. I was involved in the Spanish end of it and followed it every step of the way. I was amazed at how simple, fast and straightforward the whole company formation was.

VAT registration and other bureaucratic processes, even including taxes, we're equally simple.

I have a U.S. company and I can tell you first-hand that the whole corporate structuring process and the things that go along with it are guaranteed to confuse and overwhelm you. The social security administration alone could drive you to self-immolation.

Here's another example, I've bought and sold several cars in the U.K. If I'm going to be there several months I find it much cheaper to buy a second-hand car and then sell it on.

It's so simple! You don't even have to pay transfer taxes. In California you pay 8+ percent sales tax on the purchase price (and you can no longer claim you paid $50 because it wasn't running - something I would never do but very common none the less). And you pay the tax regardless of the amount of time you own it.

On the other hand (and I never know this before) you can't buy and register a car in the U.S. without a social security number. That means tourists and many others on visas can't buy a car in America. (I don't have first-hand knowledge of this. I read it recently in the Sunday Times. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

One final example: The Citizen's Advice Bureau (another big bureaucracy) is awesome! I've sent them emails and received a thoughtful reply the same day. And miracle of miracles: I've phoned them and other big bureaucracies like HMRC and a real human being answered the phone!

What's more, that human being actually answered my question or solved my problem!

Actually, I can think of one big exception: British banks. Even if you're deemed worthy of having an account with one of them, God forbid you ever have to phone your local branch! People who are loaded probably get royal treatment but I've had nothing but misery dealing with British banks.

But other than banking, dealing with big British institutions has almost been a joy. Most of these experiences were several years ago so I don't know if things have gone downhill any, especially since the spending cuts.

And of course someone with different circumstances may have had different experiences. (For example, I haven't yet had any direct experience with Immigration.)

But all in all, I've been repeatedly impressed with the responsiveness and accessibility of British bureaucracy. Please wish for me that my luck holds when I have to deal with immigration!  

Like you, I've found the UK to be a strange mix in which some things are exceptionally bureaucratic and others are a breeze.  As you say, setting up a limited company is a piece of cake, and there's even Business Link to help you (unless the Con/Dems have shut it down; I seem to recall hearing that was going to happen - morons).

Banks, though, seem stuck in the mid 20th century when it comes to loaning money.  Unless you've lived in the same house your whole life and you've got a job that you've been in since you left school, banks are very wary of loaning you money.

My wife and I are both self-employed, and have had a joint account with our bank for 4 years now, so the bank should have a good picture of whether or not we are financial dirtbags.  We went into our local branch yesterday to talk about a car loan, and the best interest rate we could get was 17%! 

The guy was very helpful and explained that it was mostly that the amount of money going into our account changes every month (self-employed) and we've moved around a lot, which makes us look to their computer like we're flakes who might disappear at any moment.  [rant] This is 2011; most people these days don't get jobs down at the steel mill and work there for 40 years.  Someone ought to tell the UK's consumer financial sector.  [/rant]

Mainly, though, I've found that there tend to be a lot more steps to get anything done in the UK, and each of the steps costs money.  I'm sure my opinion is being influenced by the fact that this year I'm doing ILR followed by citizenship, so all I see in front of me is a seemingly never ending path of bureaucratic steps, each one requiring me to fill up a gigantic bucket with money, completed government forms, and the occasional multiple choice test before I can move on to the next.   

As I said, I've never had to deal with immigration (other than tourist entries) and it sounds as if it could change my cheery picture of British bureaucracy.

Having said that, in 1981 I married my wife (not American) in California and we had to go through immigration to get her a green card. Even allowing for the fact that it was a recent marriage and they had to be satisfied that it was not a marriage of convenience, it was a grueling process. I can't imagine the British equivalent could be that bad.

It seems like it all works well until it doesn't. Take identity theft. Now modern society is based on data bases. The bank situation....they feed your stuff in a program and it spits out the result. But the wheels come off at the slightest process requiring subjective analysis. So somebody gets your 'number' and mucks about with it and years later finally a person in there somewhere straightens it out - or doesn't.

Way back in uni I worked in revenue collection for a state agency (a soul sapping thing if there ever was one). The whole thing was run by a mainframe. Returns would come in and be scanned and if all the figures added up (and if the reader was functioning properly) everything was peachy. If there was a malfunction of any sort, or a derivation from the expected algorithmic response the mainframe kicked out a penalty notice and opened a case. Now it could have been anything, but the process of sorting it could get very complex. Inevitably the ones who encountered the most grief were small mom and pops who took care of things for themselves. Walmart had a team that could work the case for however long it took. Too sheisters could skate along indefinitely as long as column A matched column B. The philosophy behind it all had to do with man hours. They were shooting for some analytical "sweet spot" balancing revenue against costs for collection effort.

Hi

DavidO - yes, everyone is different depending on what they do, their job, and their life's wants and desires which can lead into loads of red tape or sometimes very little. By the very nature of the UK, mix of Social and Capitalist - then the 'public' sector is way way inefficient, wasteful, absolutely chock full of red tape and time consuming factors. If you have to deal with this aspect of UK life you can quickly become bogged down in plenty of red tape!

you mention you've bought and sold cars, you have to be careful there as the 'public' sector HMRC will think you should pay tax for doing such a thing, which then leads you into having to declare sole trader or private limited company status... more red tape, but this is expected when trading or running a business. UK laws are heavily biased towards the consumer and the business owner is saddled with plenty of red tape and hoops to jump through !

What should've been difficult things to get - property, loans and mortgages, company registration/setups were surprisingly easy to get - the UK's population, banks and government all had their hand to play in that fiasco which has landed us in the mess we are in, yet what should've been easy things to do are wrapped up in red tape - think most of the public services sector here - health (long waiting lists) transport (high pricing - rail and buses) as just a couple of examples.

I know there's more to it and this is just top level skimmed views!

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

the 'public' sector is way way inefficient, wasteful, absolutely chock full of red tape and time consuming factors.

This is such an annoying generalization.