Urgent - Traffic Violations - ILR

Hello, I was hoping someone could help me with this query asap, as I have my visa checking service Friday morning (it's now Wednesday night)...

I am at the 'criminal offences' section of my ILR set(m) form and it's asking me to declare any criminal convictions.  It does state that I do not have to mention 'fixed penalty notices' such as speeding or parking tickets.  However, after reading others' posts on the forum, some have said they've been refused having a traffic violation in the last 5 years?

So... what are they getting at?  What is going to get my application refused?

It is now 2014 and I have 4 unspent (they are from the middle of 2009 & 2010) speeding fines (yes, I had a lead foot!) and a 'too fast for conditions/speeding' fine.  I have paid these fines (does this mean they are spent, or still unspent because they're less than 5 years old?)  These are technically 'fixed penalty notices' as they were issued by police officers on the side of the road; I never was requested to appear in court and I sent all my fines in by post.

These are not criminal offences.  They are minor traffic violations, so I do not have a criminal record..... BUT, as they are not quite to the 5-year marker yet, are these minor 'fixed penalty notices' going to hinder my ILR?  Also, it's not a one-off offence... I have 4 in one year!

I am going to declare everything, as I have done in the past two visa applications.

I'm having a panic attack.

Didn't you answer these for your FLR?

ILR is automatically refused if you have any unspent criminal convictions.

Fixed penalty notices are not considered criminal convictions, and if you have no criminal record, then they won't affect your ILR.

Thank you for the good news.  The reason I panicked is because of other things I've read on here:

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=73633.msg1014152#msg1014152

Also, this text from the UKBA refers to having only a single offence, but I've had 5 over 2009/10.  They were fixed penalty notices, so I guess it falls under the second bit of the text, where they only look at fixed penalty notices in last 12 months.  I haven't had one in nearly 4 years!  So, is it still looking good for me?

We will normally disregard a single conviction for a minor offence resulting in a bind over,
conditional discharge or relatively small fine or compensation order, if a person is suitable
for citizenship in all other respects. By “minor offence” we mean minor speeding offence
or other ‘regulatory’ offences. Offences involving dishonesty (e.g. theft), violence or sexual
offences or drugs are not classed as minor offences. Drink-driving offences, driving while
uninsured or disqualified or driving whilst using a mobile phone are not minor offences
either.
We would not normally take Fixed Penalty Notices into account, unless you have had more
than one fixed penalty notice in the last 12 months. In that case, you may wish to wait to
make your application until you have no more than one fixed penalty notice in the 12
month period before applying.

Paying the UKBA £1050 just to refuse my application seems like a waste...

Didn't you answer these for your FLR?

I did include these for my fiancée visa and my FLR, but it seems that standards are different for the ILR?

I did include these for my fiancée visa and my FLR, but it seems that standards are different for the ILR?

The criminalty laws changed. It made it easier for some (FPN) and worse (Caution) or impossible (length of jail time) for others to get ILR.

I assume you have informed your insurers of all you speeding offences? If not, this will invalidate your insurance - and driving while uninsured "are not minor offences" (your quote above).

They were fixed penalty notices, so I guess it falls under the second bit of the text, where they only look at fixed penalty notices in last 12 months.  I haven't had one in nearly 4 years!  So, is it still looking good for me?

Well, the first part of the text doesn't apply to you as you have no criminal convictions.

And the second part of the text doesn't apply to you because you have not had more than one fixed penalty notice in the last 12 months.

Paying the UKBA £1050 just to refuse my application seems like a waste...

But why would they refuse it?

- You have no criminal convictions

- You have not had more than one fixed penalty notice in the last 12 months.

I just found this webpage (a letter to UKBA from someone with 2 Fixed Penalty Notices in 12 months in 2008, applying for ILR in 2012), which might help:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/fixed_penalty_notice_fpn_ilr_app

I did include these for my fiancée visa and my FLR, but it seems that standards are different for the ILR?

I would say that you should include them in your application anyway, for completeness and to show honesty, but as they are not criminal convictions, I shouldn't think they will affect the application decision.

I just found this webpage (a letter to UKBA from someone with 2 Fixed Penalty Notices in 12 months in 2008, applying for ILR in 2012), which might help:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/fixed_penalty_notice_fpn_ilr_app

Thank you Ksand for this information.  Reading it made me feel better until I got to the part of the response that read:

You have stated that you got two in one month. This, in itself,
 would be unlikely to lead to a refusal of your settlement application
 unless it was a pattern of repeated behaviour.

I had 4 in one year (2009)

I really, Really, REALLY wouldn't worry.  They granted your fiance visa with the same violations and your FLR(M).  ILR is much easier to obtain that either of those visas.

Take a deep breath and remember that they've already approved your applications TWICE and nothing has changed since then.   

Seriously, this is nothing to worry about.

Thank you everyone for your help!!

I think we're going to now have an in-person appointment instead of send it off by post.  After all this anxiety, I don't think I could wait 10 weeks for a response.

I'm going to include my driving record in my application with a cover letter explaining them, but I'm going to tick 'no' on the 'Do you have any criminal convictions?' question in section 9.  Please let me know if this is something I shouldn't do!


Oh, and I just called the UKBA helpline in Croydon.... and I got the thickest woman.  She had nearly no idea what I was on about.  That doesn't give me confidence, lol.

Definitely go for the in-person appointment.  It's worth the price for the peace of mind.  And they are very friendly there and will talk to you about your application if there is anything amiss.

Yeah, calling doesn't help much does it?  I called when I was switching from a Tier 2 to FLR(M).  I had already scheduled an in-person appointment but had a question about my payslips.  The woman on the phone told me I was not allowed to apply in-country and had to return to the US to apply.  I kept explaining that my job and life was in the UK and that all I wanted to do was change categories.  She told me I did not "live" in the UK and only had permission to be here and that as soon as I was married I was illegal in the country and had to apply from the US.  I asked to speak with a supervisor who stuck to the same story as this woman.  Needless to say it sent me into a HUGE panic as I never questionned being about to apply in-country.  That's when I found UK-Y and Ksand came to the rescue to ease my fears.  Of course I kept my in-person appointment and all was fine.