UN demands Australian government shut down Nauru

"Two United Nations agencies and dozens of human rights, legal, religious and medical groups have demanded the Australian government put a stop to the suffering of asylum seekers and refugees in its offshore processing regime, following the publication of the Nauru files."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/10/nauru-files-widespread-condemnation-of-australian-government-by-un-and-others

Good post!  Australia has a lot to answer for.

I typed up a long answer to this.....and then erased it.

The question I have.....does Australia have the right to decide who comes/goes from their country? I would say yes. As much as I dislike Trump and his.....well....everything......does the US have a "right" to put up a wall between the US and Mexico? To keep everybody out......I would say yes. I do not think this is the right thing to do. But....I do think Australia has the right to deny access to anybody they wish to. Now......what to do with those people who are sitting in their......detention? areas......I've no idea. The people who strongly object......what are the correct answers? I sure have no idea. Rather than just objecting......what would be a good solution?

I typed up a long answer to this.....and then erased it.

I hate that....the re-write is never as good.

Rather than just objecting......what would be a good solution?

Well, there are examples of resettlement that have worked just fine. A heck of a lot of Jewish folk found their place in the US and UK. The Irish, likewise have done pretty well.  Being from Miami, I think the Cuban influx was all-in-all a good example. I don't mind Mexican people at all, heck I study Spanish now so that if I go back, I can hopefully communicate better with my new countrypeople. Here, there's a Somali family across the street, good people....brought me some banana cake last week.

I hate that....the re-write is never as good.

Well, there are examples of resettlement that have worked just fine. A heck of a lot of Jewish folk found their place in the US and UK. The Irish, likewise have done pretty well.  Being from Miami, I think the Cuban influx was all-in-all a good example. I don't mind Mexican people at all, heck I study Spanish now so that if I go back, I can hopefully communicate better with my new countrypeople. Here, there's a Somali family across the street, good people....brought me some banana cake last week.

I again ask......what is the "right" thing for Australia to do? They obviously don't want immigrants to just come floating in....so the examples of past immigrants coming into countries is irrelevant. What "might" turn out well isn't applicable.  They are setting up this "away from the Australia" place to put people who are trying to get there. If what they are doing is bad (I'm still undecided).....what should they be doing?.......providing they have the right to keep people out of the country if they wish........

Well I think that  according to International treaty, which I am pretty sure Australia signed, refugees and asylum seekers have a rightt to petition for relief.  So in essence, I suppose, by signing these Treaties, governments give up at least some control over their borders.

But the real question here is how you treat people while you decide their fate. They are only exercising rights Australia has agreed to....so in no way are they doing anything illegal. So I, and the UN apparently, and a host of organisations concerned with human rights,  are wondering why they are being imprisoned.

I again ask......what is the "right" thing for Australia to do? They obviously don't want immigrants to just come floating in....so the examples of past immigrants coming into countries is irrelevant. What "might" turn out well isn't applicable.  They are setting up this "away from the Australia" place to put people who are trying to get there. If what they are doing is bad (I'm still undecided).....what should they be doing?.......providing they have the right to keep people out of the country if they wish........

They have a right to decide who can and cannot enter their country, just like the US and the UK have a right to decide. What they don't have a right to do is to wreak havoc in people's lives. Their own staff members abused and caused trauma to adults AND children. When is that ever condoned?

What are they supposed to do? Well, they should act like a first world country that they are and not treat people in an abusive fashion. They should be aiding these people who aren't 'fit to enter Australia', not making their lives even worse.

The article out and out says that all off the refugees need to be moved to 'humane conditions'. If regular refugee camps are considered humane conditions... I can't even imagine what these peoples' lives must be like.

They are sending these people to a tiny island country that can't even afford it's own people, let alone a group of refugees! Nauru relies heavily on aid from other countries to survive. New Zealand was paying for it's legal system until recently, they don't even mention what the cost is!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15433616

What is the right thing to do in this world, when there are millions fleeing their homes due to war? I don't know, I can't even pretend to know. It's going to have to be handled by a coalition of world governments. No single country is going to step up here. And this isn't WWII where governments feel guilty for the genocide that happened right under their noses.

But I do know that abusing displaced people is not the right thing. Would you want your family and friends` to go through this?

So what is the answer? What should Australia do? The problem with a lot of these arguments is people know that they don't like what someone else is doing.....but don't have a good plan to fix it (think politics). I agree that it doesn't look like these people are being treated as well as they should be.......how well should they be treated? Water and basic medical care seem a given......and for how long? Forever? Is there a time line of how long they are going to be in these sites? I don't know the answer. I don't know how to deal with what is a problem for Australia......or for basically the same situation here in Europe. As an ex-teacher we had to have a plan that included not only moving the students from A to B.....but HOW this was going to happen....details. How is it we expect more of teachers than we do of our big shot politicians?

lyonaria- Would I want to have friends family in these places? Nope. But for things to change......the people who vote in these countries have to step up as well. It's usually the only way to get the politicians to do the right thing. As stated above......it doesn't look like they are being treated very well and hopefully the media attention will bring some relief to the situation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28189608

Well the reason I pointed to historic examples is that we aren't sitting here without precedence.

With the Mariel boatlift around 123,000 Cuban refugees landed in Florida over a six-month period. At first they were held in detention centers....they got a lot of bad coverage if you remember.

Resolution came when the Marielitos were finally allowed to start their new lives amongst the general population...with help from government agencies, established charities and the US Cuban community. They have done fine...with early reports of the insane and criminal element being exaggerated.

We can look at Jewish refugees from WWII. By forming coalitions with existing US-based Jewish groups the refugees pretty quickly wove themselves into the rich and colourful fabric of American Society.

A pattern can be spotted, however.....camps and prisons don't seem to help. Refugees do best when they are quickly processed, given support and settled into the community. 

Well the reason I pointed to historic examples is that we aren't sitting here without precedence.

With the Mariel boatlift around 123,000 Cuban refugees landed in Florida over a six-month period. At first they were held in detention centers....they got a lot of bad coverage if you remember.

Resolution came when the Marielitos were finally allowed to start their new lives amongst the general population...with help from government agencies, established charities and the US Cuban community. They have done fine...with early reports of the insane and criminal element being exaggerated.

We can look at Jewish refugees from WWII. By forming coalitions with existing US-based Jewish groups the refugees pretty quickly wove themselves into the rich and colourful fabric of American Society.

A pattern can be spotted, however.....camps and prisons don't seem to help. Refugees do best when they are quickly processed, given support and settled into the community.

I wasn't arguing about whether you are right about immigrants/refugees being a good thing or not.......overall I think they are......I am just making a point that a country has the right to keep people from entering their country if they wish. After reading a couple other articles on the Australia situation....they are treating people worse than I originally thought and I just hadn't bothered to read the news blurbs. But then if I put myself into a Australia politicians thought processes (if possible).....they are trying to reduce immigration. They don't want to make it too appealing to come to Australia. If they take too good of care of the people in the detention centres (really nice housing/food/medical) then what was a trickle turns into a flood since it is so nice. But......it seems that they should at least be treating these people with a minimum of decency....which they don't seem to be doing. I don't have to agree with their process (sending them to an island etc), but I can certainly understand their urge to prevent high rates of immigration. I personally think their immigration rules are too tight......but.....their country, their rules. As usual......and has been stated before.....I've no clue on how to truly fix things. Lots of theories.....

This is one of (likely the biggest) the reasons people (including my wife) voted Leave......she doesn't have an issue with immigration, just uncontrollable immigration. The EU rules took that right away from countries, older folks in particular were very uncomfortable with this. This isn't what people thought they were getting back in the 70's when the "EU" began.......but it just kept getting bigger and bigger.....which some people like, some don't. I think the free movement type rules kicked in in 1992.

Now....as I think I have stated before.....if they put me in charge of the presidential race I think injecting a few simple rules would clean up the whole process. Although the devils in the details.......and there is no way politicians would like my rules.

I can't tell Australia to do because I'm not Australian. I don't have enough knowledge about the refugee situation in the world to even hazard a guess about what should and can be done. I don't know what the process is for the refugees who are being detained in Nauru, we just know that they are being treated like criminals, if not worse than criminals, and innocent people do not deserve that.

Nauru doesn't allow foreign press on the island, which is why we know so little about what is going on.

Being a teacher and having to have a plan for your students has nothing to do with the refugee situation. On a world scale, you only had to plan what to do with your own population in the event of X, Y ,Z, and our governments, as far as we know, do this! Do you come up with a plan should you suddenly have a small group of children without an adult come up to you who has run away from an abusive situation and is unable or refuses to go back to their home? No. You call the police or child services (a different area of government) and have them deal with it after treating the children however you treat them. I would hope it was compassionately and kindly...

I have already thought about what do they "deserve" as refugees because I knew you would ask. I came to the conclusion that that line of thinking is one of privilege. How can I, someone who wants for nothing and lives in a very safe place, decide what someone fleeing a war torn country, who used up all their money just to escape bombings, firefights, and death, decide what a refugee deserves? They deserve to be treated humanely, justly and with compassion. Because isnt that how we would want to be treated if we were in the same boat? Whatever a government decides to do they need to put it into writing and let these people know what they will be getting and when it will end. I couldn't even begin to guess at the costs for a refugee camp.

This is a situation that we have been in before, after WWII, but world politics is at a completely different stage now and the populations are MUCH higher. What worked back then will not work now.

I am not an economist, I am not in a position of power to know what each country can and cannot do to help these people. But I do know that we should be helping these people because it's the right thing to do. I am not religious, but doesn't every religion have a tenet to help those who are less fortunate than yourself? It's hypocritical to pick and choose who is "deserving" of help.

I can't tell Australia to do because I'm not Australian. I don't have enough knowledge about the refugee situation in the world to even hazard a guess about what should and can be done. I don't know what the process is for the refugees who are being detained in Nauru, we just know that they are being treated like criminals, if not worse than criminals, and innocent people do not deserve that.

Nauru doesn't allow foreign press on the island, which is why we know so little about what is going on.

Being a teacher and having to have a plan for your students has nothing to do with the refugee situation. On a world scale, you only had to plan what to do with your own population in the event of X, Y ,Z, and our governments, as far as we know, do this! Do you come up with a plan should you suddenly have a small group of children without an adult come up to you who has run away from an abusive situation and is unable or refuses to go back to their home? No. You call the police or child services (a different area of government) and have them deal with it after treating the children however you treat them. I would hope it was compassionately and kindly...
Huh? Where did this come from?

I have already thought about what do they "deserve" as refugees because I knew you would ask. I came to the conclusion that that line of thinking is one of privilege. How can I, someone who wants for nothing and lives in a very safe place, decide what someone fleeing a war torn country, who used up all their money just to escape bombings, firefights, and death, decide what a refugee deserves? They deserve to be treated humanely, justly and with compassion. Because isnt that how we would want to be treated if we were in the same boat? Whatever a government decides to do they need to put it into writing and let these people know what they will be getting and when it will end. I couldn't even begin to guess at the costs for a refugee camp.
Again....huh? If I were in a position of desperation I would do anything I had to do.....without thinking twice. The only point I was trying to make was on why Australia might be doing what they are doing.....not whether I agreed with it. I can understand why they are doing what they are doing......but the treatment of the people I do not agree with. Are you perhaps somehow thinking I do agree with it....or think it is ok?

This is a situation that we have been in before, after WWII, but world politics is at a completely different stage now and the populations are MUCH higher. What worked back then will not work now.

I am not an economist, I am not in a position of power to know what each country can and cannot do to help these people. But I do know that we should be helping these people because it's the right thing to do. I am not religious, but doesn't every religion have a tenet to help those who are less fortunate than yourself? It's hypocritical to pick and choose who is "deserving" of help.
I'm not religious either, why bring up religion? I think these people should be helped as well and haven't stated otherwise......not sure where you are coming from......

We all know why Australia is doing what they are doing. And you never asked that. You kept asking:

So what is the answer? What should Australia do?

I answered what I think Australia should do. Treat the refugees with compassion and fairness and tell them what they are entitled to and for how long and most of all NOT ABUSE them.

Most of these people don't make it through to the asylum/resettlement process. They are denied. We don't know what happens to them after they are denied entry to Australia or how long the application process takes. No international reporters are allowed on Nauru.

And you admitted to not knowing the details about what was going on in this situation before you even replied the first time.

After reading a couple other articles on the Australia situation....they are treating people worse than I originally thought and I just hadn't botheredto read the news blurbs.

And the teaching thing,

As an ex-teacher we had to have a plan that included not only moving the students from A to B.....but HOW this was going to happen....details. How is it we expect more of teachers than we do of our big shot politicians?

It's an incorrect analogy. It's apples to oranges. You didn't make decisions for people outside of your class/school. Just people you already had control over, and our governments have that bit handled.

Refugees would be more like students fleeing from another school desperate to go to yours at any cost but your school doesn't want them and will only allow a few in grudgingly but they would be made to wait in poor conditions miles away and treated like criminals while the decision was being made.

And the government came up with a a plan on what they are doing. They did it once before on Nauru starting in 2008 until they shut it down. Then they opened it back up in 2012. This specific situation has been going on for 4 years already.

And referencing compassion, I always hope that children will be treated with it, but there have been tests and studies showing that children who are dirty/disheveled and have torn clothing are most often treated poorly and with less care by the general public and their peers. You aren't someone I know and I would say that to anyone I don't know. I do hope people in positions if power would treat a child with compassion, many people don't.

And I didn't ask you what you would do as someone in this situation. We would all act as the refugees are. Some would stay in their homes, hoping to wait it out. Others would desperately seek escape to a better place, as millions are doing.

I asked you how would you want to be treated as a refugee. It's a huge difference.

quickly processed, given support and settled into the community.

This is my plan.