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Topic: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?  (Read 1754 times)

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Hey all -

This is my first post, and I apologize in advance to anybody I may frustrate by admitting my obvious lack of foresight...

I am currently in the UK on a visitor's visa. I am traveling through Europe on a cliché quarter-life backpacking excursion, prompted by a messy breakup earlier this year. I got here at the beginning of October and had planned to stay here until January, when I will then head to Nepal to complete a Tibetan Medicine internship. I have spent about 2 weeks so far staying with friends in the UK, where I ultimately want to live. The rest of that time has been spent in the Czech Republic, Poland, and Italy.

I work remotely part-time for an American religious (Buddhist) non-profit, which I didn't really realize was illegal until I went down a very sobering and jarring rabbit hole of posts on this forum earlier today. It's frankly very difficult to find straightforward information about the legality of international telecommuting, and the logistics are increasingly obscured by what seems to be a growing number of "digital nomad" expats, complete with entire web communities and services marketing to those who wish to live abroad while working from their computer. As of today, I have had two paychecks directly deposited into my US bank account since arriving in Europe, though both paydays took place while I was in countries other than the UK.

Upon arriving in the UK, I habitually stated my occupation as "student" (which is technically true - I am just finishing an online program for Tibetan Medicine). Since my job is both part time and painfully non-lucrative, I always just label myself as a "student," though I suppose I was also somewhat foggy about the logistics of my employment situation. But even when I was waiting tables while working on my undergrad, I never would have stated my occupation as "waiter." I was always just a "student." I acknowledge that this was a mistake. The immigration officer asked if I had saved up enough money to spend a couple of months in Europe (which I had stated as my intent on my immigration card), and I said that I had 10k saved in the bank (also true). He stamped my passport without question and I went on my way.

Now, I know that I can make it through this trip without raising any red flags and go on with my life without consequence. I know there's a remote chance of getting "caught" and getting deported/banned, which does absolutely frighten me. But I also know that this risk is somewhat remote. However, I would really like to apply for a student or work visa in the UK at some point in the not-so-distant future, and am now quite terrified that I will be denied (and potentially punished) for non-compliance in the past.

Ultimately, I'm wondering how long it would take for this trip to be functionally expunged from my record, and if there's any kind of damage control I can do at this late stage to change my legal standing. I am willing to quit my job or leave the country before my next paycheck if that would actually improve my situation. I'm also potentially able to get my employer to label this time as paid vacation, which much of it has actually been. Realistically, I haven't done nearly any work while in the UK. Nor have I received a paycheck while on UK soil. But I have technically been employed during my time here.

I know this is morally questionable, and I really don't want to break the law in the UK. I am quite serious about my intent to move here, and want to do everything I can on the up-and-up. Realistically, however, actually applying for visas, etc. wouldn't be a possibility until the beginning of 2018 when I've completed all of my existing commitments in the states.

Does anybody have constructive advice (and ideally, experience) in dealing with this situation? If I've screwed myself over in regards to applying for a work visa, when would that no longer be the case? I'm assuming that if I attempted to get a work visa 5 years from now, they wouldn't say "Well you seem to have been employed during the 3 weeks you spent in the UK back in 2016." So I'm curious where that line is drawn. I'm quite ignorant to the entire visa application and biometric process, so I'm not sure how far back your submitted bank records go. I would assume that it's tied to the most previous tax year, which would theoretically mean that this trip will disappear in the Spring of 2018. Is this true?

Thank you all for your time and any advice you may be able to offer. I'm feeling quite sick over the thought of potentially being banned from the UK if this comes to light, since this country feels like home in a way that no other place on earth does. Though even if something that extreme doesn't happen, I'm saddened at the prospect of not being able to pursue a permanent arrangement here because of one month, especially since I currently have an offer on the table.

Thanks a bunch.

Worried,
EJ


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Re: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2016, 05:19:10 PM »
Oh, sorry, another question on the topic:

If I leave the UK and spend a month or so in other European countries, does the UK pay any attention to my employment status at that time? For instance, if I decided to leave immediately and go to France, etc. to avoid further breakage of any laws here, could that time still be referenced in future immigration considerations? Or would the UK immigration folks look solely at my time spent in the United Kingdom?

Thanks again,
EJ


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Re: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2016, 05:25:23 PM »
You are correct.  While on a tourist visa,  you cannot undertake any kind of work.  Whether remote or even unpaid.  It is illegal to volunteer while here as a tourist!  Crazy, but true.

It's unlikely a long term visa would be denied.  What could/would be affected is the "good character" requirement for citizenship.  This is all a really long time away and I wouldn't worry with it now.  Yes, if an IO upon entry discovered you were working while you were here, you could be banned from the UK for a set period of time.

Best to stop work for now, now that you know the legalities.  But I wouldn't worry to much.

Here's the guidance:

https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa/overview

You can’t:
do paid or unpaid work



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Re: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2016, 06:48:44 PM »
The rest of that time has been spent in the Czech Republic, Poland, and Italy.

You might want to check these countries laws also to see if you are allowed to work there when you visit. I would guess that most countries will not allow tourists to work?


The immigration officer asked if I had saved up enough money to spend a couple of months in Europe (which I had stated as my intent on my immigration card), and I said that I had 10k saved in the bank (also true).

That's to check that you have enough money to support yourself while you are a tourist in the UK.

If I've screwed myself over in regards to applying for a work visa, when would that no longer be the case? I'm assuming that if I attempted to get a work visa 5 years from now, they wouldn't say "Well you seem to have been employed during the 3 weeks you spent in the UK back in 2016."

Unless you can do a job on the UK's shortage occupation list, or have a skill that is in demand, or earn a lot of money, then it is very hard to get a work visa for the UK.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 06:54:12 PM by Sirius »


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Re: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2016, 11:09:52 AM »
Hats off to you for having the guts to make such a trip !   I hope you have a great time. 

I'm sad that Face Book can happily make money everywhere without paying anywhere near their fair share of taxes but hippies earning practically nothing from Buddhist medicine are loosing sleep over visa silliness.  I don't like the direction society is going in.


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Re: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2016, 11:11:10 AM »
Sorry to hijack your thread but I'd love to hear how you enjoyed Prague.


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Re: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 02:35:55 PM »
Appreciate all of the thoughtful replies. Thanks a bunch.

The nature of my job is very much that of a consultant, so essentially all of the work that I do is covered in business meetings. I have admittedly not been very diligently working over the past month, partially because I had a lot of overtime hours and vacation time to use, but also partially just because I have been lazy and more focused on traveling than being a good employee. But all I do is online program consultation and very mild management of a team of 3 people. I'm certainly not "setting up shop" in the UK, I've just been holding a handful of meetings with my team and getting paid regularly. I've also received commission payments for programs that I developed over the past 3 years (none of which were developed during my time in the UK). How is this kind of passive income managed in this situation? If I were to label both of my overseas paychecks as commission payments, would this change the stakes at all? The commission payments were added onto my regular pay, so both paychecks were abnormally high (by my rather poor standards) and clearly irregular compared to my other paychecks, historically.

After a conversation with my boss last night, we agreed to suspend all payments into my account effective immediately, and to functionally end my "employee" status with the organization. We will resume on an independent contractor agreement upon my return to the states. I have enough funds to survive my trip to Nepal and a tiny additional bit of travel in Europe, so I'm hoping that this move is wise in regards to potential future immigration. If nothing else, it hopefully would show that I'm serious about following the law here in the UK and augmenting my behavior upon recognition that what I was doing is not kosher. Luckily, my boss is a good friend of mine, so she is also willing to write up any necessary documents to indicate that this time has not been spent working, and that I was on holiday for my time in the UK.

However, I'm worried about the fact that I stated my occupation as "student" instead of listing my part-time job outright. Is this something that would be invoked during an application for a student or work visa (specifically if it was submitted in spring of 2018)? I'm still unclear as to how far back my submitted financial information will go in such an application process.

Sorry to hijack your thread but I'd love to hear how you enjoyed Prague.

Prague was amazing. It was a very unexpected trip, as I was on my way to teach a retreat with my Lama in SW Poland (I don't even want to begin to consider the potential legal messiness surrounding that whole affair...), so I spent 5 days is Prague beforehand. It was gorgeous, lively, and affordable. Though, at the end of the day, I have yet to fall in love with a place the way that I love England.

Unless you can do a job on the UK's shortage occupation list, or have a skill that is in demand, or earn a lot of money, then it is very hard to get a work visa for the UK.

Fair point. I know that the reality of actually landing a work visa is a whole different debacle. As a Tibetologist, I do have a skill set that isn't particularly easy to find in the UK, and I actually have an offer on the table to come run a retreat center in Wiltshire. So I may have a sponsor. Alternatively, I would likely get a student visa and attend university in the UK. Getting married while on that visa would also be a legal possibility, to the best of my knowledge, so I would certainly push for that.

I know that the entrepreneurial visa is also a consideration. I don't have the proper amount of investment funds at this point, but it's not impossible for me to generate them over the next few years. So if all else fails, I will probably try to go that route.

Again, I know that there are a helluva lot of external circumstances that need to come together to make an actual permanent move possible, but I desperately want to make sure that my affairs are enough in order that it's even a possibility. I'm rather sharp, and am quite willing to do whatever is necessary to make the move possible, I'm just quite ignorant in regard to immigration law.

Thanks again for all of the advice! Please keep it coming.  :)


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Re: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 02:40:12 PM »
Ahhh, there's a relationship.  That explains a lot.  ;D

Stopping work while you are here as a tourist is 100% the right thing to do.  It is very unlikely this indiscretion will bite you in the ass in the future.  But best to put it right now, as you have.  I wouldn't lose any sleep over anything or worry about the future, personally.


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Re: Working remotely on visitor visa (didn't know the laws) - am I screwed?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 05:04:36 PM »
After a conversation with my boss last night, we agreed to suspend all payments into my account effective immediately, and to functionally end my "employee" status with the organization. We will resume on an independent contractor agreement upon my return to the states.

Note that if you are an independent contractor and you only have one client (i.e. your former employer) then there is a multi-step test to determine if the Feds in the US will consider you a defacto-employee and therefore should be employed. If you go that route might be best to make sure you pass that multi-step test. You can find it on the IRS website.


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