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John McCain
« on: September 01, 2018, 12:12:19 AM »
I watched the livestream on Roku this afternoon of Senator McCain's casket being taken into the Rotunda to lay in state. It was a very dignified, moving ceremony. At one point I was thinking... "Dear God, the last honest, decent politician has left us, there's nobody left, and now the wolves will close in." And then I noticed how almost every person from the House and the Senate who was in attendance was crying at one point or another. The Senator's 102 year old mother was there. How sad for her.  VP Pence did a nice speech, it was a credit to him.

Then this evening I saw all the attempts by reporters to get Trump to make a comment, at various venues during the last couple of days, in regards to Sen. McCain, and Trump simply ignored the questions. He would be asked point blank if he wanted to say anything about the Senator and would not acknowledge the question. At one point a reporter asked if he'd considered the American Legion's request to issue a proclamation and he simply ignored the question and the questioner. Added to the raising of the flag over the White House waaaay too soon (yes, I know that senators normally only get two days of a dipped flag), Trump has just shown his own colors very clearly.

And pissed off a lot of people. Myself included. I used to just be upset that he was in office. I am now truly, and deeply, angry.

I didn't vote for McCain, but only because of the VP candidate on the ticket with him. John McCain was a decent, plain-spoken, honorable man of principle.

Unlike the current President of the United States.

God help us all.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 12:15:02 AM by Nan D. »


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2018, 01:01:42 PM »


I watched the livestream on Roku this afternoon of Senator McCain's casket being taken into the Rotunda to lay in state. It was a very dignified, moving ceremony. At one point I was thinking... "Dear God, the last honest, decent politician has left us, there's nobody left, and now the wolves will close in." And then I noticed how almost every person from the House and the Senate who was in attendance was crying at one point or another. The Senator's 102 year old mother was there. How sad for her.  VP Pence did a nice speech, it was a credit to him.

Then this evening I saw all the attempts by reporters to get Trump to make a comment, at various venues during the last couple of days, in regards to Sen. McCain, and Trump simply ignored the questions. He would be asked point blank if he wanted to say anything about the Senator and would not acknowledge the question. At one point a reporter asked if he'd considered the American Legion's request to issue a proclamation and he simply ignored the question and the questioner. Added to the raising of the flag over the White House waaaay too soon (yes, I know that senators normally only get two days of a dipped flag), Trump has just shown his own colors very clearly.

And pissed off a lot of people. Myself included. I used to just be upset that he was in office. I am now truly, and deeply, angry.

I didn't vote for McCain, but only because of the VP candidate on the ticket with him. John McCain was a decent, plain-spoken, honorable man of principle.

Unlike the current President of the United States.

God help us all.


I thought that Joe Biden's remarks were moving as well. There are a few politicians left who are decent, and a new wave coming, but it's definitely an uphill battle with the amount of misinformation and blatant following with no regard to anything the person does going on now.

I've seen a lot of people say they didn't vote for him because of the running mate. Just goes to show how vital that is even though the vote is for the presidency!


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 05:44:09 PM »
If Trump says anything about McCain is it not instantly the Trump show with zero oxygen left for reflecting on McCain’s life of service?

He put out a tweet from him personally sending condolences but got adequate for that being inadequate. He chose not to do a glowing press release because it would have been attacked as opportunistic and jumping on a bandwagon to steal the limelight from a someone who can’t stand up for himself anymore. It’d be even worse if he gave a quote or soundbite that’d be on repeat everywhere. There’s nothing he could do that wouldn’t be taken as offensive, cause further attacks on him, and take attention away from McCain and his family in this moment.

The very best and most respectful thing he can do is stay out of it.


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 11:37:52 PM »
Meghan McCain's Eulogy to her father:

""The world is a fine place and worth the fighting for and I hate very much to leave it."

When Ernest Hemingway's Robert Jordan, at the close For Whom the Bell Tolls, lies wounded and waiting for his last fight, these are among his final thoughts.

My father had every reason to think the world was an awful place. My father had every reason to think the world was not worth fighting for. My father had every reason to think the world was worth leaving. He did not think any of those things. Like the hero of his favorite book, John McCain took the opposite view. You had to have a lot of luck to have had such a good life.

I am here before you today saying the words I have never wanted to say, giving the speech I have never wanted to give, feeling the loss I have never wanted to feel.

My father is gone.

John Sidney McCain III was many things. He was a sailor. He was an aviator, he was a husband, he was a warrior, he was a prisoner, he was a hero, he was a congressman, he was a senator. He was a nominee for the president of the United States.

These are all the titles and the roles of a life that has been well lived. But they are not the greatest of his titles nor the most important of his roles.

He was a great man. We gather here to mourn the passing of America greatness. The real thing, not cheap rhetoric from men who will never come near the sacrifice he gave so willingly. Nor the opportunistic appropriation of those who live lives of comfort and privilege while he suffered and served.

He was a great fire who burned bright. In a past few days my family and I have heard from so many of those Americans who stood in the warmth and light of his fire and found it illuminated what is best about them. We are grateful to them because they are grateful to him. A few have resented that fire, for the light it cast upon them, for the truth it revealed about their character.

But my father never cared what they thought and even that small number still have the opportunity, as long as they draw breath, to live up to the example of John McCain. My father was a great man. He was a great warrior. He was a great American.

I admired him for all of these things, but I love him because he was a great father. My father knew what it was like to grow up in the shadow of greatness. He did just as his father had done before him.

He was the son of a great admiral who was also the son of a great admiral. And when it came time for the third John Sidney McCain to become a man, he had no choice, but in his own eyes to walk in those exact same paths. He had to become a sailor. He had to go to war. He had to have his shot at becoming a great admiral as they also had done.

The paths of his father and grandfather led my father directly to the harrowing hell of the Hanoi Hilton. This is the public legend that is John McCain. This is where all the biographies, the campaign literature and public remembrances say he showed his character, his patriotism, his faith and his endurance in the worst of possible circumstances. This is where we learned who John McCain truly was.

All of that is very true, except for the last part. Today, I want to share with you where I found out who John McCain truly was. It wasn't in the Hanoi Hilton. It wasn't in the cockpit of a fast and legal fighter jet. It wasn't on the high seas or the campaign trail. John McCain was in all of those places, but the best of him was somewhere else. The best of John McCain, the greatest of his titles and most important of his roles was as a father.

Imagine the warrior the night of the skies gently carrying his little girl to bed. Imagine the dashing aviator who took his aircraft hurdling off pitching decks in the South China seas kissing the hurt when I fell and skinned my knee. Imagine the distinguished statesman who counselled presidents and the powerful singing with his little girl in Oak Creek during a rainstorm to singing in the rain. Imagine the senator, fierce conscious of the nation's best self, taking his 14-year-old daughter out of school because he believed that I would learn more about America at the town halls he held across the country. Imagine the elderly veteran of war in government whose wisdom and courage were sought by the most distinguished men of our time with his eyes shining with happiness as he gave blessing for his grown daughter's marriage.

You all have to imagine that. I don't have to because I lived it all. I know who he was. I know what defined him. I got to see it every single day of my blessed life.

John McCain was not defined by prison, by the Navy, by the senate, by the Republican Party or by any single one of the deeds in his absolutely extraordinary life.

John McCain was defined by love.

Several of you out there in the pews who cross swords with him, or found yourselves on the receiving end of his famous temper, or were at a cross purposes to him on nearly anything, are right at this moment doing you're best to stay stone faced.

Don't.

You know full well that if John McCain were in your shoes here today, he would be using some salty word he used in the Navy while my mother jabbed him in the arm in embarrassment. He would look back at her and grumble and maybe stop talking. But he would keep grinning. She was the only one who could do that.

On their first date, when he still did not know what sort of woman she was, he recited a Robert Service poem to her called The Cremation of Sam McGee about an Alaskan prospector who welcomes his cremation as the only way to get warm in the icy north.

"There are strange things done in the midnight son by the men who moil for gold. The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold."

He had learned it in Hanoi. A prisoner in the next cell had wrapped it out in code over and over again during the long years of captivity.

My father figured if Cindy Lou Hensley would sit through that and appreciate the dark humor that had seen him through so many years of cruel imprisonment, she just might sit through a lifetime with him as well. And she did.

John McCain was defined by love. This love of my father for my mother was the most fierce and lasting of them all, mom. Let me tell you what love meant to John McCain and me. His love was the love of a father who mentors as much as he comforts. He was endlessly present for us and though we did not always understand it, he was always teaching. He didn't expect us to be like him. His ambitions for us, unmoored from any worldly achievement, was to be better than him. Armed with his wisdom and informed by his experiences, long before we were even old enough to have assembled our own.

As a girl I did not fully appreciate what I most fully appreciate now: how he suffered and how he bore it with a stoic silence that was once the mark of an American man. I came to appreciate it first when he demanded it of me.

I was a small girl thrown from a horse and crying from a busted collarbone. My dad picked me up, he took me to the doctor and got me all fixed up. Then he immediately took me back home and made me get back on that very same horse. I was furious at him as a child, but how I love him for it now.

My father knew pain and suffering with an intimacy and immediacy that most of us are blessed never to have endured. He was shot down, he was crippled, he was beaten, he was starved, he was tortured and he was humiliated. That pain never left him. The cruelty of his communist captors ensured that he would never raise his arms above his head for the rest of his life. Yet he survived, yet he endured, yet he triumphed. And there was this man who had been through all that with a little girl who simply didn't want to get back on her horse. He could have sat me down and told me all of that and made me feel small because my complaint and my fear was nothing next to his pain and memory. Instead, he made me feel loved.

"Meghan," he said, his quiet voice that spoke with authority and meant you had best obey, "get back on the horse." I did and because I was a little girl, I resented it. Now that I am a woman, I look back across that time and see the expression on his face when I climbed back up and rode again, and I see the pride and love in his eyes as he said, "Nothing is going to break you."

For the rest of my life, whenever I fall down, I get back up. Whenever I am hurt, I drive on. Whenever I am brought low, I rise. That is not because I am uniquely virtuous or strong or resilient. It is simply because my father, John McCain, was. When my father got sick, when I asked him what he wanted me to do with this eulogy, he said, "Show them how tough you are."

That is what love meant to John McCain. Love for my father also meant caring for the nation entrusted to him.

My father, the true son of his father and grandfather, was born into an enduring sense of the hard-won character of American greatness and was convinced of the need to defend it with ferocity and faith. John McCain was born in a distant and now vanquished outpost of American power and he understood America as a sacred trust.

He understood our republic demands responsibilities even before it defends its rights. He knew navigating the line between good and evil was often difficult, but always simple. He grasped that our purpose and our meaning was rooted in a missionary’s responsibility stretching back centuries.

Just as the first Americans looked upon a new world full of potential for a grand experiment in freedom and self-government, so their descendants have a responsibility to defend the old world from its worst self.

The America of John McCain is the America of the revolution. Fighters with no stomach for the summer soldier and sunshine patriot, making the world anew with the bells of liberty.

The America of John McCain is the America of Abraham Lincoln. Fulfilling the promise of the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal and suffering greatly to see it through.

The America of John McCain is the America of the boys who rushed the colors in every war across three centuries, knowing in them is the life of the republic and particularly those — by their daring — as Ronald Reagan said, "gave up their chance at being husbands and fathers and grandfathers and gave up their chance to be revered old men."

The America of John McCain is, yes, the America of Vietnam. Fighting the fight even in the most forlorn cause, even in the most grim circumstances, even in the most distant and hostile corner of the world. Standing in defeat for the life and liberty of other peoples in other lands.

The America of John McCain is generous and welcoming and bold. She is resourceful and confident and secure. She meets her responsibilities, she speaks quietly because she is strong. America does not boast because she has no need to.

The America of John McCain has no need to be made great again because America was always great.

That fervent faith. That proven devotion. That abiding love. That is what drove my father from the fiery skies above the red river delta to the brink of the presidency itself. Love defined my father.

As a young man, he wondered if he would measure up to his distinguished lineage. I miss him so badly. I want to tell him he did. But I take small comfort in this: somewhere in the great beyond, where the warriors go, there are two admirals of the United States meeting their much loved son. They're telling him he's the greatest among them.

Dad, I love you. I always have. All that I am, all that I hope, all that I dream is grounded in what you taught me. You loved me and you showed me what love must be.

An Ancient Greek historian wrote that the image of great men is woven into the stuff of other men’s lives. Dad, your greatness is woven into my life. It's woven into my mother's life. It's woven into my sister's life and it is woven into my brother's lives. It is woven into the life and liberty of the country you sacrificed so much to defend.

Dad, I know you were not perfect. We live in an era where we knock down old American heroes for all of their imperfections. When no leader wants to admit to fault or failure, you were an exception and you gave us an ideal to strive for. Look, I know you can see this gathering here in this cathedral. The nation is here to remember you.

Like so many other heroes, you leave us draped in the flag you loved. You defended it. You sacrificed it. You have always honored it. It is good to remember that we are Americans. We don't put our heroes on pedestals just to remember them.

We raise them up because we want to emulate their virtues. This is how we honor them and this is how we will honor you.

My father is gone. My father is gone. And my sorrow is immense. But I know his life and I know it was great because it was good. And as much as I hate to see him go, I do know how it ended. I know that on the afternoon of August 25, in front of Oak Creek in Cornville, Arizona, surrounded by the family he loved so much, an old man shook off the scars of battle one last time and arose new man to pilot one last flight up and up and up, busting clouds left and right, straight on through to the kingdom of heaven. And he slipped the earthly bonds, put out his hand, and touched the face of God.

I love you, Dad."


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 11:40:52 PM »
George W. Bush's Eulogy

"Cindy and the McCain Family, I am honored to be with you to offer my sympathies and to celebrate a great life. The nation joins your extraordinary family in grief and gratitude for John McCain.

Some lives are so vivid, it is difficult to imagine them ended. Some voices are so vibrant and distinctive, it is hard to think of them stilled. A man who seldom rested is laid to rest. And his absence is tangible, like the silence after a mighty roar.

The thing about John’s life was the amazing sweep of it. From a tiny prison cell in Vietnam to the floor of the United States Senate. From troublemaking plebe to presidential candidate. Wherever John passed throughout the world, people immediately knew there was a leader in their midst. In one epic life was written the courage and greatness of our country.

For John and me, there was a personal journey — a hard-fought political history. Back in the day, he could frustrate me. (Laughter.) And I know he’d say the same thing about me. But he also made me better. In recent years, we sometimes talked of that intense period like football players remembering a big game. In the process, rivalry melted away. In the end, I got to enjoy one of life’s great gifts: the friendship of John McCain. And I will miss him.

Moments before my last debate — ever — with Senator John Kerry in Phoenix, I was trying to gather some thoughts in the holding room. I felt a presence … opened my eyes … and six inches from my face was McCain, who yelled, “RELAX! RELAX!”

John was, above all, a man with a code. He lived by a set of public virtues that brought strength and purpose to his life and to his country.

He was courageous — with a courage that frightened his captors and inspired his countrymen.

He was honest, no matter whom it offended. Presidents were not spared.

He was honorable — always recognizing that his opponents were still patriots and human beings.

He loved freedom, with the passion of a man who knew its absence.

He respected the dignity inherent in every life — a dignity that does not stop at borders and cannot be erased by dictators.

Perhaps above all, John detested the abuse of power. He could not abide bigots and swaggering despots. There was something deep inside him that made him stand up for the little guy – to speak for forgotten people in forgotten places.

One friend from his Naval Academy days recalled how John — while a lowly plebe — reacted to seeing an upperclassman verbally abuse a steward. Against all tradition, he told the jerk to pick on someone his own size. It was a familiar refrain during his six decades of service.

Where did such strength of conviction come from? Perhaps from a family where honor was in the atmosphere. Or from the firsthand experience of cruelty, which left physical reminders that lasted his whole life. Or from some deep well of moral principle. Whatever the cause, it was this combination of courage and decency that defined John’s calling — and so closely paralleled the calling of his country.

It is this combination of courage and decency that makes the American military something new in history — an unrivaled power for good. It is this combination of courage and decency that set America on a journey into the world — to liberate death camps, to stand guard against extremism, and to work for the true peace that comes only with freedom.

John felt these commitments in his bones. It is a tribute to his moral compass that dissidents and prisoners in so many places — from Russia, to North Korea, to China — knew that he was on their side. And I think their respect meant more to him than any medals and honors life could bring.

This passion for fairness and justice extended to our own military. When a Private was poorly equipped, or a Seaman was overworked in terrible conditions, John enjoyed nothing more than dressing down an Admiral or a General. He remained that troublesome plebe to the end.

Those in political power were not exempt. At various points throughout his long career, John confronted policies and practices that he believed were unworthy of his country. To the face of those in authority, John McCain would insist: We are better than this. America is better than this.

John — as he was the first to tell you — was not a perfect man. But he dedicated his life to national ideals that are as perfect as men and women have yet conceived. He was motivated by a vision of America carried ever forward, ever upward, on the strength of its principles.

He saw our country not only as a physical place or power, but as the carrier of enduring human aspirations. As an advocate for the oppressed. As a defender of the peace. As a promise, unwavering, undimmed, unequaled.

The strength of a democracy is renewed by reaffirming the principles on which it was founded. And America somehow has always found leaders who were up to that task, particularly at times of greatest need. John was born to meet that kind of challenge — to defend and demonstrate the defining ideals of our nation.

If we are ever tempted to forget who we are, to grow weary of our cause, John’s voice will always come as a whisper over our shoulder: We are better than this. America is better than this.

John was a restless soul. He really didn't glory in success or wallow in failure, because he was always on to the next thing. A friend said, “He can’t stand to stay in the same experience.” One of his books ended with the words: “And I moved on.”

John has moved on. He would probably not want us to dwell on it. But we are better for his presence among us. The world is smaller for his departure. And we will remember him as he was: unwavering, undimmed, unequaled."
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 11:44:36 PM by Nan D. »


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 11:43:19 PM »
Barak Obama's eulogy:

"To John's beloved family, Mrs. McCain, to Cindy and the McCain children, president and Mrs. Bush, president and secretary Clinton, vice president and Mrs. Biden, vice president and Mrs. Cheney, vice president Gore, and as John would say, my friends.

We come to celebrate an extraordinary man. A warrior, a statesman, a patriot who embodied so much that is best in America. President Bush and I are among the fortunate few who competed against John at the highest levels of politics. He made us better presidents. Just as he made the senate better. Just as he made this country better. So, for someone like John to ask you, while he's still alive, to stand and speak of him when he's gone, is a precious and singular honor.

Now, when John called me with that request earlier this year, I'll admit, sadness and also a certain surprise. But after our conversation ended, I realized how well it captured some of John's essential qualities. To start with, John liked being unpredictable. Even a little contrarian. He had no interest in conforming to some pre-packaged version of what a senator should be, and he didn't want a memorial that was going to be pre-packaged either. It also showed John's disdain for self-pity. He had been to hell and back, and yet somehow never lost his energy or his optimism or his zest for life.

So, cancer did not scare him. And he would maintain that buoyant spirit to the very end. Too stubborn to sit still, opinionated as ever, fiercely devoted to his friends and, most of all, to his family. It showed his irreverence, his sense of humor, a little bit of a mischievous streak.

After all, what better way to get a last laugh to make George and I say nice things about him to a national audience.

And, most of all, it showed a largeness of spirit. An ability to see past differences in search of common ground. And, in fact, on the surface, John and I could not have been more different. We're of different generations. I came from a broken home and never knew my father. John was the son of one of America's most distinguished military families.

I have a reputation for keeping cool, John, not so much. We were standard bearers of different American political traditions and throughout my presidency, John never hesitated to tell me when he thought I was screwing up, which by his calculation was about once a day.

But for all our differences, for all of the times we sparred, I never tried to hide — and I think John came to understand — the long-standing admiration that I had for him. By his own account, John was a rebellious young man. In his case, that's understandable, what faster way to distinguish yourself when you're the son and grandson of admirals than to mutiny.

Eventually, though, he concluded that the only way to really make his mark on the world is to commit to something bigger than yourself. And for John, that meant answering the highest of callers, serving his country in a time of war. Others this week and this morning have spoken to the depths of his torment and the depths of his courage there in the cells of Hanoi when, day after day, year after year, that youthful iron was tempered into steel.

That brings to mind something that Hemingway wrote in the book that Meghan referred to, his favorite book: “Today is only one day in all the days that will ever be. But what will happen in all the other days that ever come can depend on what you do today”.

In captivity, John learned in ways that few of us ever will the meaning of those words. How each moment, each day, each choice, is a test. And John McCain passed that test again and again and again.

And that's why when John spoke of virtues like service and duty, it didn't ring hollow. They weren't just words to him. It was a truth that he had lived and for which he was prepared to die. It forced even the most cynical to consider, what were we doing for our country.

What might we risk everything for? Much has been said this week about what a maverick John was.

Now, in fact, John was a pretty conservative guy. Trust me, I was on the receiving end of some of those votes. But he did understand that some principles transcend politics. That some values transcend party. He considered it part of his duty to uphold those principles and uphold those values.

John cared about the institutions of self-government, our constitution, our bill of rights, rule of law, separation of powers. Even the arcane rules and procedures of the senate. He knew that in a nation as big and boisterous and diverse as ours, those institutions, those rules, those norms are what bind us together. It gives shape and order to our common life.

Even when we disagree. Especially when we disagree. John believed in honest argument and hearing other views.

He understood that if we get in the habit of bending the truth to suit political expediency or party orthodoxy, our system will not work. That's why he was willing to buck his own party at times; occasionally work across the aisle on campaign finance reform and immigration reform.

That's why he championed a free and independent press as vital to our democratic debate. And the fact that it earned him some good coverage didn't hurt either.

John understood, as JFK understood, as Ronald Reagan understood, that part of what makes our country great is that our membership is based not on our bloodline, not on what we look like, what our last names are, it's not based on where our parents or grandparents came from, or how recently they arrived, but on adherence to a common creed, that all of us are created equal. Endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights.

It's been mentioned today, and we've seen footage this week of John pushing back against supporters who challenged my patriotism during the 2008 campaign. I was grateful, but I wasn't surprised. As Joe Lieberman said, it was John's instinct.

I never saw John treat anyone differently because of their race or religion or gender.

And I'm certain that in those moments that have been referred to during the campaign, he saw himself as defending America's character. Not just mine. He considered it the imperative of every citizen who loves this country to treat all people fairly.

And finally, while John and I disagreed on all kinds of foreign policy issues, we stood together on America's role as the one indispensable nation, believing that with great power and great blessings comes great responsibility. That burden is borne most heavily by our men and women in uniform.

Service members like Doug and Jimmy and Jack, who followed their father's footsteps, as well as the families who serve alongside our troops. But John understood that our security and influence was won not just by our military might, not just by our wealth, not just by our ability to bend others to our will, but from our capacity to inspire others, with our adherence to a set of universal values, like rule of law and human rights and an insistence on the God given dignity of every human being.

Of course, John was the first to tell us that he was not perfect. Like all of us who go into public service, he did have an ego. Like all of us, there was no doubt some votes he cast, some compromises he struck, some decisions he made that he wished he could have back. It's no secret, it's been mentioned, that he had a temper. And when it flared up, it was a force of nature, a wonder to behold, his jaw grinding, his face reddening, his eyes boring a hole right through you.

Not that I ever experienced it first-hand, mind you. But to know John was to know that as quick as his passions might flare, he was just as quick to forgive and ask for forgiveness. He knew more than most his own flaws and his blind spots. And he knew how to laugh at himself.

And that self-awareness made him all the more compelling. We didn't advertise it, but every so often over the course of my presidency, John would come over to the White House and we'd just sit and talk in the Oval Office, just the two of us. We'd talk about policy and we'd talk about family. And we'd talk about the state of our politics.

And our disagreements didn't go away during these private conversations. Those were real and they were often deep.

But we enjoyed the time we shared away from the bright lights. And we laughed with each other. And we learned from each other. And we never doubted the other man's sincerity. Or the other man's patriotism. Or that when all was said and done, we were on the same team.

We never doubted we were on the same team.

For all of our differences, we shared a fidelity to the ideals for which generations of Americans have marched and fought and sacrificed and given their lives. We considered our political battles a privilege. An opportunity to serve as stewards of those ideals here at home, and to do our best to advance them around the world. We saw this country as a place where anything is possible, and citizenship as an obligation to ensure it forever remains that way.

And more than once during his career, John drew comparisons to Teddy Roosevelt. I am sure it's been noted that Roosevelt's man in the arena oration seems tailored to John. Most of you know it. Roosevelt speaks of those who strive, who dare to do great things, that sometimes win and sometimes come up short, but always relish a good fight. A contrast to those cold timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

Isn't that the spirit we celebrate this week? That striving to be better? To do better? To be worthy of the great inheritance that our founders bestowed?

So much of our politics, our public life, our public discourse can seem small and mean, and petty. Trafficking and bombast, and insult, and phony controversies, and manufactured outrage.

It's a politics that pretends to be brave, and tough, but in fact is born of fear.

John called on us to be bigger than that — he called on us to better than that. Today is only one day in all the days that will ever be. But what will happen in all the other days that will ever come can depend on what you do today.

What better way to honor John McCain's life of service than as best we can, follow his example. To prove that the willingness to get in the arena and fight for this country is not reserved for the few, it is open to all of us.

And in fact, it is demanded of all of us as citizens of this great republic. That's perhaps how we honor him best, by recognizing that there are some things bigger than party or ambition, or money, or fame, or power. That there's some things there are worth risking everything for. Principles that are eternal. Truths that are abiding.

At his best, John showed us what that means. For that, we are all deeply in his debt. May God bless John McCain. May God bless this country he served so well."


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 12:57:26 AM »
If Trump says anything about McCain is it not instantly the Trump show with zero oxygen left for reflecting on McCain’s life of service?

He put out a tweet from him personally sending condolences but got adequate for that being inadequate. He chose not to do a glowing press release because it would have been attacked as opportunistic and jumping on a bandwagon to steal the limelight from a someone who can’t stand up for himself anymore. It’d be even worse if he gave a quote or soundbite that’d be on repeat everywhere. There’s nothing he could do that wouldn’t be taken as offensive, cause further attacks on him, and take attention away from McCain and his family in this moment.

The very best and most respectful thing he can do is stay out of it.

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You are right. He really should remain silent at this point. A "condolence" tweet. He sent a tweet.  Couldn't spare a formal letter or phone call in private to the family, he sends a freaking publicity tweet addressed to the family of someone of whom America can rightly be proud and look up to. 

Then he blunders out with "well, I did everything they asked me to do"  and doesn't see the problem. They should not have had to ask him to do the right thing. That's the problem - he has no clue. No sense of honor. None at all. He's not being quiet out of respect - he doesn't understand the concept. His handlers are doing damage control. And they are idiots. Because he's got staffers sniping at McCain on twitter, and Trump's not acting with any sort of decorum - he could have at least stopped tweeting about himself during the service. They should have taken his twitter account away from him for a few hours, at least, and warned the staff to have at least a modicum of decorum during the mourning period. And, apparently, they're not capable:

“@realDonaldTrump ran for @POTUS ONE time and WON,” Katrina Pierson, an adviser on Mr. Trump’s campaign, tweeted. “Some people will never recover from that.”   

But you are absolutely correct. There is nothing Trump can do at this point that wouldn't make him look worse than he already does.  He has, as the Daughter says (and apologies but it's a literal transcription), "really screwed the pooch this time." 

If I was even a half-century younger and on the other side of the pond, I'd be out picketing. If I had even the most basic talent for organizing, you can bet your last greenback I'd be doing it. Unfortunately,  none of those apply even remotely. It is incredibly frustrating that there's not a damned thing I can do to change this nightmare, while watching the damage they are doing. I find it completely appalling that such a large number of Americans have been sold a pig-in-a-poke, and still don't realize that the pig's been dead for quite some time. Goebbels was correct, it appears. The bigger the lie, the easier it is to foist it.

I really wish Senator McCain was still here. And maybe a couple of decades younger, so he could run in the next election. Because I don't see anybody on the horizon who can begin to fix this.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:59:33 AM by Nan D. »


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2018, 09:57:01 AM »



I really wish Senator McCain was still here. And maybe a couple of decades younger, so he could run in the next election. Because I don't see anybody on the horizon who can begin to fix this.

I am hoping for an Elizabeth Warren ticket in 2020, but that's a long time away.

Thank you for sharing the transcripts, those were moving and so respectful of his life and legacy.


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2018, 11:44:38 AM »
If Trump says anything about McCain is it not instantly the Trump show with zero oxygen left for reflecting on McCain’s life of service?

He put out a tweet from him personally sending condolences but got adequate for that being inadequate. He chose not to do a glowing press release because it would have been attacked as opportunistic and jumping on a bandwagon to steal the limelight from a someone who can’t stand up for himself anymore. It’d be even worse if he gave a quote or soundbite that’d be on repeat everywhere. There’s nothing he could do that wouldn’t be taken as offensive, cause further attacks on him, and take attention away from McCain and his family in this moment.

The very best and most respectful thing he can do is stay out of it.


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While you may be correct that the circumstances are that Trump cannot do anything now to  act like the nation expects a President to act, that does not mean he has chosen that path because it is "best" or "respectful". He has chosen to do that because he can't do anything else.  No other politician with a bit  of skill would be in that position.  Trump is an amatuer at being President and has painted himself into this corner.  He doesn't deserve praise for doing nothing at this late stage, he deserves more criticism for his complete inability to be President. 

What are your feelings about the Helsinki summit?  I think it was a shocking moment when the treason was finally obvious to everyone.  While Russia was attacking our democracy by interfering in our elections, Trump explicitly sided with Putin over America.  If that's not the textbook definition of treason, I don't know what is. 

I would imagine a patriot like yourself would be seething with rage. 


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 06:15:57 PM »
While you may be correct that the circumstances are that Trump cannot do anything now to  act like the nation expects a President to act, that does not mean he has chosen that path because it is "best" or "respectful". He has chosen to do that because he can't do anything else.  No other politician with a bit  of skill would be in that position.  Trump is an amatuer at being President and has painted himself into this corner.  He doesn't deserve praise for doing nothing at this late stage, he deserves more criticism for his complete inability to be President. 

What are your feelings about the Helsinki summit?  I think it was a shocking moment when the treason was finally obvious to everyone.  While Russia was attacking our democracy by interfering in our elections, Trump explicitly sided with Putin over America.  If that's not the textbook definition of treason, I don't know what is. 

I would imagine a patriot like yourself would be seething with rage.
The whole point is this is not the time to be distracted by your blind biased hatred for the president & tendency to find something to be outraged about even if you have to make stuff up. This is a time as a society to reflect on the life, service, sacrifice, and character of McCain. A very flawed and imperfect guy, who still sincerely loved his country and did all he could to roll with the punches and keep it moving forward. And a time as human beings to show sympathy for the family and stay out of the way of their grieving process.

I don’t know if I’ve said this here, but my move to the UK has been delayed (though they already have some NHS money from me I’d like to get back). And that’s because my dad is in really bad health and maybe won’t make it through the year. Such is life. But I tell ya, if I’m at the funeral and someone is across the way disruptively ranting in a bullhorn that the card someone sent wasn’t sympathetic enough and came with too small a wreath, then there’s a real possibility I’m going to go punch that jerk in the throat.

That’s what screaming at the president for sending a tweet instead of a staff release and following the law & established protocol on the flag looks like.

You know I don’t like the president. You know I begrudgingly will take up his defense when the attack against him is completely unfair - as I would most anyone where attacks are over the line and intellectually dishonest. But what he did here was release a statement in his own way, that said an appropriate thing, and follow the law in accordance with the wishes of the late senator. It may not have been what you would have done, but you’re not president. Vocal criticism of that in this time is nothing but detracting from the needed reflection on the good of McCain’s life and insulting to the time and space the family deserves.


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 06:20:38 PM »

I am hoping for an Elizabeth Warren ticket in 2020, but that's a long time away.

Thank you for sharing the transcripts, those were moving and so respectful of his life and legacy.
Elizabeth Warren would guarantee a Republican win. The most she could be is a VP nominee on a strong top of the ticket. If you nominate Jim Webb or someone like that, you may have a better chance. It’s interesting DNC knocked down the super delegates. I curious to see if that causes will of the people on the left to track more towards Bernie type candidates or if centrist outsiders have a chance.


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Re: John McCain
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2018, 09:27:57 PM »
But I tell ya, if I’m at the funeral and someone is across the way disruptively ranting in a bullhorn that the card someone sent wasn’t sympathetic enough and came with too small a wreath, then there’s a real possibility I’m going to go punch that jerk in the throat.

That’s what screaming at the president for sending a tweet instead of a staff release and following the law & established protocol on the flag looks like.

You know I don’t like the president. You know I begrudgingly will take up his defense when the attack against him is completely unfair...

For someone with such a strong sense of right and wrong , you seem always ready to defend the worst things Trump does.  Sure, in every post you tell us that you don't like Trump, and then (always begrudgingly ) defend his latest, lowest action.   The fact of the matter is that every action by Trump related John Mcain's death has been completely incorrect and self serving.  Why was Obama able to effortlessly deal with the whole thing and make a beautiful speech at the funeral?  Because he and the other ex President's are pros, and Trump is not fit to shine their shoes. 

I've got no intention of spoiling this thread for people who want to express sorrow about McCain, but would you please follow me over to the new thread about the Helsinki summit?  I'm very interested to hear your reaction.





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