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Topic: Trying to figure out citizenship  (Read 6309 times)

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Re: Trying to figure out citizenship
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2019, 12:00:56 PM »
It's more complicated than that. Performativity substituting for meaningful substance is admittedly just not my bag -- whether with regards to events or allyship or interpersonal dynamics or etc etc. But it's particularly hollow here, where my 'achievement' is holding enough, multifactorial privilege to be able to outlast the requirements of a bigoted, oppressive structure. While I can imagine, perhaps, one day being persuaded to attend one of my graduations (all that time wasted when you could be reading or napping or snacking or going for a walk!), I can't separate the political from the personal here. At the very heart of a citizenship ceremony is the creation (celebration) of division, 'you' -- worthy, achieving -- versus 'them': the undocumented, the not-citizens, the only-residents. I cannot find joy in the complicity and, yet, to deny myself security would be equally injurious, so my relationship with all citizenships remains complicated.

Wow, HMS_Seahorse.  I feel that.  Your point is valid, and I totally respect what you're saying.

In fact, I had a similar experience with getting married.  I was boycotting because back in the US, "they" were defining marriage on the basis of a book I don't subscribe to in order to deny it to same-sex couples, which I viewed as unjust.  But the only way I could legally remain with my partner in the UK was if I married him, so I returned to the US long enough to get the right visa, came back, and we got married.  We tried to de-ritualize the ceremony as much as we could by choosing a civil ceremony at the Registrar's office and only having our two witnesses (and their son) in attendance.  I rationalized it on the day with the fact that same-sex civil partnerships were legal in the UK, so I wasn't doing something that wasn't available to everybody in the place I was.  But I was upset that I couldn't have a civil union (now legal here!), and same-sex couples couldn't have marriage, so there was still a distinction being made.  It still felt like I was compromising my principles.

But when I really thought about it, my boycott wasn't going to win the fight for same-sex marriage, or make any impact in the world, really.  And not getting married when I did would have meant that my husband and I most likely would've ultimately gone our separate ways and we wouldn't be where we are today.

I suppose in your case, you have Indefinite Leave, so there's no need to get citizenship, but as you said, it does give you security.  And the ceremony is part of getting citizenship.  So... You should be prepared: you do have to recite the oath, out loud.  Maybe a group ceremony would be better for you, so you can mumble along in the sea of voices.  In a private ceremony, there's just you, stood in front of the person officiating, repeating phrases after him/her.  No getting around it.  :/
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: Trying to figure out citizenship
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2019, 12:02:49 PM »
And can we talk about how I recently purchased a wireless bra thinking it would be life changing and it's the most uncomfortable thing IN THE WORLD?!?!?  I mean, - WHY??  Just why?!?!???

I can only talk from my experience, but it's because they tend to look prettier than the wired ones! But they fit really crap on a chestier woman...
My, how time flies....

* Married in the US and applied for first spousal visa August 2013
* Moved to the UK on said visa October 2013
* FLR(M) applied for  May 2016. Biometrics requested June 2016. Approval given July 2016.
* ILR applied for January 2019 (using priority processing). Approved February 2019.
* Citizenship applied for May  2019
* Citizenship approved on July 4th 2019
* Ceremony conducted on August 28th 2019

'Mommy, Wow! I'm a legit Brit now!'


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Re: Trying to figure out citizenship
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2019, 01:50:39 PM »
And can we talk about how I recently purchased a wireless bra thinking it would be life changing and it's the most uncomfortable thing IN THE WORLD?!?!?  I mean, - WHY??  Just why?!?!???
I've had to try a lot, some are awful and some are as comfy as tank tops with padding (but not a tight elastic band, the tank tops with those hurt me badly). I only buy them for comfort and necessity when in public, wires and poorly fitting ones literally bruise my ribs. :(

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk



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Re: Trying to figure out citizenship
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2019, 01:54:00 PM »
And HMS_Seahorse, I really respect, and agree with your feelings on citizenship. It is a necessary thing in the current world we live in when in multinational relationships, but I really wish it weren't. It gives you a greater appreciation for the struggles the undocumented and asylum seekers must go through, and you just hope that they end up safe and OK.

I hope your application goes smoothly so you can have the security and peace of mind, and ability to take opportunities elsewhere in the world!

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk



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Re: Trying to figure out citizenship
« Reply #79 on: June 24, 2019, 11:02:47 AM »
Wow, HMS_Seahorse.  I feel that.  Your point is valid, and I totally respect what you're saying.

In fact, I had a similar experience with getting married.  I was boycotting because back in the US, "they" were defining marriage on the basis of a book I don't subscribe to in order to deny it to same-sex couples, which I viewed as unjust.  But the only way I could legally remain with my partner in the UK was if I married him, so I returned to the US long enough to get the right visa, came back, and we got married.  We tried to de-ritualize the ceremony as much as we could by choosing a civil ceremony at the Registrar's office and only having our two witnesses (and their son) in attendance.  I rationalized it on the day with the fact that same-sex civil partnerships were legal in the UK, so I wasn't doing something that wasn't available to everybody in the place I was.  But I was upset that I couldn't have a civil union (now legal here!), and same-sex couples couldn't have marriage, so there was still a distinction being made.  It still felt like I was compromising my principles.

But when I really thought about it, my boycott wasn't going to win the fight for same-sex marriage, or make any impact in the world, really.  And not getting married when I did would have meant that my husband and I most likely would've ultimately gone our separate ways and we wouldn't be where we are today.

I suppose in your case, you have Indefinite Leave, so there's no need to get citizenship, but as you said, it does give you security.  And the ceremony is part of getting citizenship.  So... You should be prepared: you do have to recite the oath, out loud.  Maybe a group ceremony would be better for you, so you can mumble along in the sea of voices.  In a private ceremony, there's just you, stood in front of the person officiating, repeating phrases after him/her.  No getting around it.  :/

Like I said, it's equally injurious to not get it. So I'm going to. But I don't appreciate being told here how to feel about it. I also loathe the fact that Mr Seahorse and I are married. I love being with him, and being together was important, so we got hitched. (Sometimes I think the ideal would be for us to get divorced and then just stay together for as long as we continue to fancy the whole arrangement.) We didn't have a ceremony for that, either, because we used Pennsylvania's amazing self-uniting licence. Similarly, I'll do here what I need to do, but I feel nauseated by actively letting white supremacy benefit me. On the bright side, I'll be comfortable engaging in protest without the spectre of the good-character requirement looming, and I'll finally have a voice that has been 'legitimised' for participation in civic life. Guess I'll just have to use it!


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Re: Trying to figure out citizenship
« Reply #80 on: June 24, 2019, 11:13:34 AM »
And HMS_Seahorse, I really respect, and agree with your feelings on citizenship. It is a necessary thing in the current world we live in when in multinational relationships, but I really wish it weren't. It gives you a greater appreciation for the struggles the undocumented and asylum seekers must go through, and you just hope that they end up safe and OK.

I hope your application goes smoothly so you can have the security and peace of mind, and ability to take opportunities elsewhere in the world!

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk



None of us is free until all of us is free -- definitely throw my weight/money behind those a lot more marginalised than I. Doing a lot more direct action these days, but trying to balance with everything else is challenging. I know there's no right way, and the most important thing is to do what you can ...

You know, I don't even have an opportunity I'm targeting. I just don't want to feel stuck. I get twitchy. London's Londonness goes a long way towards staving off that feeling, but I'm doing cool research in the NHS, plus doing great work in my industry, and I'm 7 months away from submitting that dissertation and then ... who knows, restlessness might set in and I'll want to leverage everything I've been up to. At my big age, I know what I'm like, so I try to avert all my being-myself-ness. Sometimes I exhaust even me.


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Re: Trying to figure out citizenship
« Reply #81 on: June 24, 2019, 11:26:48 AM »


But I don't appreciate being told here how to feel about it.

Apologies if anything I said came across as telling you how to feel.

Wishing you all the best.


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My, how time flies....

* Married in the US and applied for first spousal visa August 2013
* Moved to the UK on said visa October 2013
* FLR(M) applied for  May 2016. Biometrics requested June 2016. Approval given July 2016.
* ILR applied for January 2019 (using priority processing). Approved February 2019.
* Citizenship applied for May  2019
* Citizenship approved on July 4th 2019
* Ceremony conducted on August 28th 2019

'Mommy, Wow! I'm a legit Brit now!'


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