Hired a lawyer, but not happy with their services so far...

Hi, we hired a lawyer to make the process as easy as possible. We have a rather straightforward spousal application with the exception of my wife being self-employed, however she has an accountant.

So far we've had a few issues:

A lot of back and forth over basic documents or formats that should've come in the first round (For example all docs having to be in PDF format, needing every page of our passports scanned) wasting about 2 weeks as we've had to get certain documents that should've been told to us upfront. This has happened in several rounds of back and forth where he's like "Oh wait, you also don't have this or it's not in the correct format, or it's missing this" when these are documents sent in the first round and should've been looked over. Or some things we did actually send and he missed them.

Lack of communication on the timeline.

Missed deadlines, our lawyer was supposed to get us the first draft EOD Friday, didn't reply or get it to us until today despite two followup emails.

The supporting letter he wrote had the name of another client in it, is that some sort of breach of privacy? I'd feel really uneasy if he copied my name (very unique) and sent it to another client.

My parents names spelt incorrectly, wrong job description for my wife.

Am I being unreasonable? We paid 1500 pounds and while I know when hiring a lawyer that money can go very quickly, but I'd expect more careful examination when handling something this sensitive. I've ended up having to really pour over everything myself, look up information to double check the work which is what I thought I was paying to avoid.


Furthermore he's having us submit two SU07/12 one from her and one from her disabled father because it's his accomodation. I've been reading that this is uncessary for spousal visa and I can't even find any information about a father-in-law having to submit it?

https://www.migrate.org.uk/sponsorship-undertaking-su07-form/ [nofollow]

That last one in particular has me extremely concerned about their competency.

Hi, we hired a lawyer to make the process as easy as possible. We have a rather straightforward spousal application with the exception of my wife being self-employed, however she has an accountant.

So far we've had a few issues:

A lot of back and forth over basic documents or formats that should've come in the first round (For example all docs having to be in PDF format, needing every page of our passports scanned) wasting about 2 weeks as we've had to get certain documents that should've been told to us upfront. This has happened in several rounds of back and forth where he's like "Oh wait, you also don't have this or it's not in the correct format, or it's missing this" when these are documents sent in the first round and should've been looked over. Or some things we did actually send and he missed them.

Lack of communication on the timeline.

Missed deadlines, our lawyer was supposed to get us the first draft EOD Friday, didn't reply or get it to us until today despite two followup emails.

The supporting letter he wrote had the name of another client in it, is that some sort of breach of privacy? I'd feel really uneasy if he copied my name (very unique) and sent it to another client.

My parents names spelt incorrectly, wrong job description for my wife.

Am I being unreasonable? We paid 1500 pounds and while I know when hiring a lawyer that money can go very quickly, but I'd expect more careful examination when handling something this sensitive. I've ended up having to really pour over everything myself, look up information to double check the work which is what I thought I was paying to avoid.


Furthermore he's having us submit two SU07/12 one from her and one from her disabled father because it's his accomodation. I've been reading that this is uncessary for spousal visa and I can't even find any information about a father-in-law having to submit it?

https://www.migrate.org.uk/sponsorship-undertaking-su07-form/

That last one in particular has me extremely concerned about their competency.

Welcome.

Yup, they are wrong. The SU07 does not apply to the spouse visa. It's for adult dependant relatives and the like.

It's not a bad idea to have a second opinion for the self employment categories (although it's just a case of having covered the required timeframe and providing everything on the list) but this is not the one you should be asking.

The only two we recommend here are Medivisas in London and Laura Devine who has offices in New York and London.

Sorry to hear about your issues with the lawyer.

I'll be honest, I never recommend using a lawyer unless you have really serious reasons to believe the visa could be refused and need someone to fight in your corner... for example, serious criminal convictions, several refused visas, previous illegal working or overstaying in the UK.

This is because the majority of lawyers don't seem to know what they are talking about and are known for giving bad advice. Also, personally, I wouldn't trust anyone else with my documents except myself... at least if you prepare the documents yourself, you can check and double-check that they meet all the requirements without worrying that the lawyer is doing something you don't want with them.

In the case of self-employment, it can be tricky to get the requirements right, but if you have an accountant that knows what they're doing, you shouldn't need a lawyer. You just need to be thorough with the documents you provide. If you do want to talk to a lawyer about your self-employment documents, go with Laura Devine or Medivisas, as larrabee recommended (they specialise in spousal visa applications made in the US).

Missed deadlines, our lawyer was supposed to get us the first draft EOD Friday, didn't reply or get it to us until today despite two followup emails.

The supporting letter he wrote had the name of another client in it, is that some sort of breach of privacy? I'd feel really uneasy if he copied my name (very unique) and sent it to another client.

Why is he writing a supporting letter for you? The only supporting letter that can be considered is the one the sponsor writes themselves, confirming how they meet the requirement and giving a short history of their relationship with the applicant.

Am I being unreasonable? We paid 1500 pounds and while I know when hiring a lawyer that money can go very quickly, but I'd expect more careful examination when handling something this sensitive. I've ended up having to really pour over everything myself, look up information to double check the work which is what I thought I was paying to avoid.

You are not being unreasonable. If I were you I would get rid of the lawyer right away before they can do any more damage!

Furthermore he's having us submit two SU07/12 one from her and one from her disabled father because it's his accomodation. I've been reading that this is uncessary for spousal visa and I can't even find any information about a father-in-law having to submit it?

SU07/12 is not required for a spousal visa and never has been. And it certainly should not be filled out by her disabled father.

The ONLY people who need to fill out the SU07/12 form are those applying for an adult dependant visa (adult children of the sponsor) or an elderly dependant visa, where the applicant is incapable of taking care of themselves and is 100% reliant on the sponsor for everything (and they have no living relatives or means of getting care in their home country). They sign the SU07/12 to show that the sponsor will be responsible for all their finances and personal care for the length of the visa, since they cannot work or take care of themselves.

Sorry to hear about your issues with the lawyer.

I'll be honest, I never recommend using a lawyer unless you have really serious reasons to believe the visa could be refused and need someone to fight in your corner... for example, serious criminal convictions, several refused visas, previous illegal working or overstaying in the UK.

This is because the majority of lawyers don't seem to know what they are talking about and are known for giving bad advice. Also, personally, I wouldn't trust anyone else with my documents except myself... at least if you prepare the documents yourself, you can check and double-check that they meet all the requirements without worrying that the lawyer is doing something you don't want with them.

In the case of self-employment, it can be tricky to get the requirements right, but if you have an accountant that knows what they're doing, you shouldn't need a lawyer. You just need to be thorough with the documents you provide. If you do want to talk to a lawyer about your self-employment documents, go with Laura Devine or Medivisas, as larrabee recommended (they specialise in spousal visa applications made in the US).

Why is he writing a supporting letter for you? The only supporting letter that can be considered is the one the sponsor writes themselves, confirming how they meet the requirement and giving a short history of their relationship with the applicant.

You are not being unreasonable. If I were you I would get rid of the lawyer right away before they can do any more damage!

SU07/12 is not required for a spousal visa and never has been. And it certainly should not be filled out by her disabled father.

The ONLY people who need to fill out the SU07/12 form are those applying for an adult dependant visa (adult children of the sponsor) or an elderly dependant visa, where the applicant is incapable of taking care of themselves and is 100% reliant on the sponsor for everything (and they have no living relatives or means of getting care in their home country). They sign the SU07/12 to show that the sponsor will be responsible for all their finances and personal care for the length of the visa, since they cannot work or take care of themselves.

Thank you for confirming what I thought was true, but obviously I'm not an expert so I wasn't 100% confident I was correct in something as complex as immigration law.

We thought intially we could do it ourselves but both of us work a lot and thought it'd be faster and more efficient for us to hire a lawyer to do it for us. Obviously it's been the complete opposite so far.

Sorry I misspoke, cover letter, not supporting letter. We have letters from her parents and letters from each of us.

Sorry I misspoke, cover letter, not supporting letter. We have letters from her parents and letters from each of us.

- A cover letter is not needed.
- Letters of support from her parents cannot be considered and will not be looked at (only a letter confirming accommodation will be looked at for the accommodation requirement)
- A supporting letter from the applicant will not be looked at
- Only a supporting letter from the sponsor is required

So, the only letters you need are:

Letter of support from the sponsor, containing:
- how they qualify to be a sponsor (UK citizenship)
- how they meet the financial requirement (self-employment details and category being used)
- where you will live together in the UK (full address, property details, who owns it)
- a short, factual history of your relationship (dates and facts only) and why you are choosing to settle in the UK together

Accommodation letter from her parent(s), if you will be living with them:
- confirming they own the property
- confirming the property details and total number of people who will be living there
- giving you both permission to live there

If you want, the applicant can include an optional contents letter, but it should only say the following:
- type of visa applied for and date you want it to start
- explanation of any previous refused visas, criminal convictions, illegal working/overstaying, or anything unusual about the documents provided (i.e. large bank statement transactions, or if you cannot provide something)
- list of documents included in the application

So, the average applicant letter will simply say the following:

To The Entry Clearance Officer,
 
Please find enclosed my application and supporting documents for a settlement visa to join my spouse in the UK. I would like my visa vignette to start on X date, as per the Intended Travel Date given on my application.

The following documents are included with my application:
[Documents Included]

Yours Faithfully,
Your Name

- A cover letter is not needed.
- Letters of support from her parents cannot be considered and will not be looked at (only a letter confirming accommodation will be looked at for the accommodation requirement)
- A supporting letter from the applicant will not be looked at
- Only a supporting letter from the sponsor is required

So, the only letters you need are:

Letter of support from the sponsor, containing:
- how they qualify to be a sponsor (UK citizenship)
- how they meet the financial requirement (self-employment details and category being used)
- where you will live together in the UK (full address, property details, who owns it)
- a short, factual history of your relationship (dates and facts only) and why you are choosing to settle in the UK together

Accommodation letter from her parent(s), if you will be living with them:
- confirming they own the property
- confirming the property details and total number of people who will be living there
- giving you both permission to live there

If you want, the applicant can include an optional contents letter, but it should only say the following:
- type of visa applied for and date you want it to start
- explanation of any previous refused visas, criminal convictions, illegal working/overstaying, or anything unusual about the documents provided (i.e. large bank statement transactions, or if you cannot provide something)
- list of documents included in the application

So, the average applicant letter will simply say the following:

To The Entry Clearance Officer,
 
Please find enclosed my application and supporting documents for a settlement visa to join my spouse in the UK. I would like my visa vignette to start on X date, as per the Intended Travel Date given on my application.

The following documents are included with my application:
[Documents Included]

Yours Faithfully,
Your Name

Ah that's odd we were told to do:

- Two personal statements, one from each of us.
- Council Letter which states I'm allowed to live there and it's not overcrowded.
-  Letter from parents giving permission to live there and a bit of history of our relationship in their eyes.

Definently not in the formats you put above.

Ah that's odd we were told to do:

- Two personal statements, one from each of us.
- Council Letter which states I'm allowed to live there and it's not overcrowded.
-  Letter from parents giving permission to live there and a bit of history of our relationship in their eyes.

Definently not in the formats you put above.

The sponsor letter is MANDATORY and the visa can be refused without it. There is nothing in the visa guidance that says they can consider letters from anyone else, including the applicant.

There used to be a sponsor letter template on the Transpondia website, but the website is no longer active, so now we just have to list what that template included. Any other letters regarding relationship history/personal statements from anyone other than the sponsor cannot and will not be considered.


For the accommodation requirement what you need is:
- evidence of property ownership (I.e. Land Registry)
- letter from the homeowner giving the applicant and sponsor permission to live there and stating it will not be overcrowded
- If the property is owned by the council, that letter comes from the council giving you permission to live there, plus you can include a letter from her parents stating they have no objection to you living there.

Remember, this is a tick-box visa - no personal feelings are involved in the decision. You tick the boxes, you get the visa.

So for supporting letters, the only box they need to tick is the ‘Sponsor letter’ one. There are no boxes for ‘letters from other people’.

With the accommodation requirement, the boxes they need to tick are:
- evidence of ownership
- permission for the applicant to live there


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One other thing to consider is:

How many straightforward visa applicants from the US has your lawyer personally dealt with... how many cases like yours have they taken?

I’d guess it’s probably no more than a handful in total.

On the other hand, here on the forum, we’ve helped something like 2,000 applicants just like you successfully apply for their visas without using a lawyer.

I’ve been helping out on the forum since 2007. I know the immigration requirements and documents you need, and letter templates, off by heart and I’ve been answering the same questions every day for 13 years.


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One other thing to consider is:

How many straightforward visa applicants from the US has your lawyer personally dealt with... how many cases like yours have they taken?

I’d guess it’s probably no more than a handful in total.

On the other hand, here on the forum, we’ve helped something like 2,000 applicants just like you successfully apply for their visas without using a lawyer.

I’ve been helping out on the forum since 2007. I know the immigration requirements and documents you need, and letter templates, off by heart and I’ve been answering the same questions every day for 13 years.


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Sorry, I wasn't doubting your advice, I actually trust it as it confirms more about what I've read. I was just shocked that, that part of the application was also incorrect.

It just further solidifies my doubts about the competency of whom we hired.

Sorry, I wasn't doubting your advice, I actually trust it as it confirms more about what I've read. I was just shocked that, that part of the application was also incorrect.

It just further solidifies my doubts about the competency of whom we hired.

It was more that I was emphasising that just because they are a lawyer/professional doesn’t necessarily mean they have much experience with straightforward applications .

Most immigration lawyers deal with complicated applications - situations where applicants have criminal convictions, or have been refused visas and are appealing, or illegal immigrants who are trying to become legal, or refugees/asylum seekers etc. ... and in those cases, extra evidence may be needed to try to strengthen their case, for example, letters confirming their character. Also, they are more likely to deal with applicants from high-risk countries where there’s more chance of fraudulent documents being used or forced/sham marriages occurring.

However, for a straightforward application from the US where you meet all the requirements and it’s just a case of providing the correct paperwork, lawyers often end up giving bad advice because they simply aren’t familiar with how straightforward applications are treated and how the process works in the US, and exactly what documents are needed and what documents aren’t.


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It was more that I was emphasising that just because they are a lawyer/professional doesn’t necessarily mean they have much experience with straightforward applications .

Most immigration lawyers deal with complicated applications - situations where applicants have criminal convictions, or have been refused visas and are appealing, or illegal immigrants who are trying to become legal, or refugees/asylum seekers etc. ... and in those cases, extra evidence may be needed to try to strengthen their case, for example, letters confirming their character. Also, they are more likely to deal with applicants from high-risk countries where there’s more chance of fraudulent documents being used or forced/sham marriages occurring.

However, for a straightforward application from the US where you meet all the requirements and it’s just a case of providing the correct paperwork, lawyers often end up giving bad advice because they simply aren’t familiar with how straightforward applications are treated and how the process works in the US, and exactly what documents are needed and what documents aren’t.


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That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the help and assistance! Appreciate it greatly. We're going to try to recover some money back from this service and probably just do it ourselves at this point.

One other thing to consider is:

How many straightforward visa applicants from the US has your lawyer personally dealt with... how many cases like yours have they taken?

I’d guess it’s probably no more than a handful in total.

On the other hand, here on the forum, we’ve helped something like 2,000 applicants just like you successfully apply for their visas without using a lawyer.

I’ve been helping out on the forum since 2007. I know the immigration requirements and documents you need, and letter templates, off by heart and I’ve been answering the same questions every day for 13 years.


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The exact point I was trying to make to my wife. She'd still like a lawyer to review everything before we submit but I am beginning to doubt the competency of most immigration lawyers and solicitors. They are more experienced in complex cases not the straightforward stuff.

We went to a solicitor this weekend and he suggested that they'd send in the application using both my income (sponsor) and my wife's just to be sure! Surely that's just wrong or at best overcomplicating it. I knew then that I'd just do it myself using UK Yankee and all the lovely advice that yourself and others are providing!

We went to a solicitor this weekend and he suggested that they'd send in the application using both my income (sponsor) and my wife's just to be sure! Surely that's just wrong or at best overcomplicating it. I knew then that I'd just do it myself using UK Yankee and all the lovely advice that yourself and others are providing!

It’s not wrong, just unnecessary and makes the application documents more complicated because you have to send 2 sets of income documents... and both sets must meet the requirements exactly, so there’s more chance of making a mistake.

If one of you meets the requirement with just your income, then you only need to send evidence of that person’s income... and you fill out the form as if the other person is not employed.

In the past, if you took along both sets of income documents to an in-person appointment, when one income met the requirement on its own, they would only want to see one set of documents and wouldn’t even accept or look at the other set!


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The exact point I was trying to make to my wife. She'd still like a lawyer to review everything before we submit but I am beginning to doubt the competency of most immigration lawyers and solicitors. They are more experienced in complex cases not the straightforward stuff.

We went to a solicitor this weekend and he suggested that they'd send in the application using both my income (sponsor) and my wife's just to be sure! Surely that's just wrong or at best overcomplicating it. I knew then that I'd just do it myself using UK Yankee and all the lovely advice that yourself and others are providing!

You are the sponsor of her spouse visa application?

If this is so, her self-employment is irrelevant.  She submits your employment information, which I presume is not from self-employment, as you said in your first post she is self employed.  If she is the US applicant, her income isn't counted.  YOU must demonstrate that you make at least £18600pa to sponsor her application.

Edit to add:  Actually, I'm really confused.  Can we start at the beginning?

What is your nationality?  Where do you live?

What is your wife's nationality?  Where does she live?

Who is moving where?

NEVERMIND!  hahahah!   I just saw that there was a speaker change... you're not the OP.  I'm really sorry for my confusion.  I thought you were amc17919.  Colour me embarrassed.   

You are the sponsor of her spouse visa application?

If this is so, her self-employment is irrelevant.  She submits your employment information, which I presume is not from self-employment, as you said in your first post she is self employed.  If she is the US applicant, her income isn't counted.  YOU must demonstrate that you make at least £18600pa to sponsor her application.

Edit to add:  Actually, I'm really confused.  Can we start at the beginning?

What is your nationality?  Where do you live?

What is your wife's nationality?  Where does she live?

Who is moving where?

NEVERMIND!  hahahah!   I just saw that there was a speaker change... you're not the OP.  I'm really sorry for my confusion.  I thought you were amc17919.  Colour me embarrassed.   

Your post is a perfect example of why we ask each person to keep all their visa questions in one thread specific to their own personal application... so that we don’t get confused by who is applying for what and who is in what situation... so we don’t end up giving the wrong advice to the wrong person!


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