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Topic: Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains  (Read 1718 times)

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Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains
« on: August 30, 2020, 06:51:34 PM »
Hello all! This is my first time submitting a UK tax return (I moved here in April 2019), and I'm hitting a bit of a wall. I am hoping someone on here might be able to give me at least some direction to help get me moving again. Here's my situation:

US citizen moved to the UK on 10 April 2019 (possibly important because tax year starts 6 April?). I ONLY have US income - I work remote for my American company and am paid in US dollars into my US bank account. I only transfer what I need into the UK. I also have several investments that remain in the US (401k, Roth IRA and stocks). I did sell some stocks in 2019 to help with moving costs, but this is not a usual source of income for me. I have completed my US 2019 tax return and have already paid the tax, as that is what I thought I should do first, at the time. I have no UK income or UK investments.

Some of my questions:
- Can I use the remittance basis for my UK taxes? Would this be beneficial or more effort than it's worth?
- Do I need to report to HMRC my American investment accounts that I did not receive any gains from in 2019?
- Since the US tax year is Jan-Dec, and the UK tax year is April-April, do I have to adjust my annual income to fit those months (vs. just reporting the same amount that I did on my 2019 US tax return?). My income is slightly different month to month.
- From everything I've read so far, it seems to be best if I pay taxes to HMRC, and then claim the tax relief on my US taxes. However, since I didn't do that for 2019 (I paid US taxes in full, as normal), should I receive that foreign tax relief from HMRC this year instead?

Any insight or even suggestions on where to turn for answers would be greatly appreciated! I'd prefer not to use a tax advisor since they are so expensive and I've already paid for one in the US, but if my situation sounds too complicated, then I would.

Thank you!

Applied from: Florida, US
Priority: Yes
Online application submitted: Jan 25 2019
Biometrics & docs mailed: Jan 29 2019
Documents received in NY: Jan 30, 2019
Documents received by Sheffield on: Mar 4, 2019
Case Escalated: Mar 20, 2019
Case Escalated again: Mar 27, 2019
Decision Made Email: Apr 3, 2019
Received Passport: Apr 4, 2019
YES!


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Re: Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2020, 07:03:16 PM »
Hello all! This is my first time submitting a UK tax return (I moved here in April 2019), and I'm hitting a bit of a wall. I am hoping someone on here might be able to give me at least some direction to help get me moving again. Here's my situation:

US citizen moved to the UK on 10 April 2019 (possibly important because tax year starts 6 April?). I ONLY have US income - I work remote for my American company and am paid in US dollars into my US bank account. I only transfer what I need into the UK. I also have several investments that remain in the US (401k, Roth IRA and stocks). I did sell some stocks in 2019 to help with moving costs, but this is not a usual source of income for me. I have completed my US 2019 tax return and have already paid the tax, as that is what I thought I should do first, at the time. I have no UK income or UK investments.

Some of my questions:
- Can I use the remittance basis for my UK taxes? Would this be beneficial or more effort than it's worth?
- Do I need to report to HMRC my American investment accounts that I did not receive any gains from in 2019?
- Since the US tax year is Jan-Dec, and the UK tax year is April-April, do I have to adjust my annual income to fit those months (vs. just reporting the same amount that I did on my 2019 US tax return?). My income is slightly different month to month.
- From everything I've read so far, it seems to be best if I pay taxes to HMRC, and then claim the tax relief on my US taxes. However, since I didn't do that for 2019 (I paid US taxes in full, as normal), should I receive that foreign tax relief from HMRC this year instead?

Any insight or even suggestions on where to turn for answers would be greatly appreciated! I'd prefer not to use a tax advisor since they are so expensive and I've already paid for one in the US, but if my situation sounds too complicated, then I would.

Thank you!

I’m also a USC living in England with the bulk of my income coming from the USA in the form of pensions, dividends and capital gains from investment accounts,  and I also have an IRA.  However I’m not a tax expert so can only tell you what applies to me, have been here for 4 years now.

I don’t know the ins and outs of paying on a remittance basis, I pay on an arising basis.

You don’t have to report accounts that don’t generate income in any given year, the UK has no equivalence to FBAR.

For the first year (I arrived in May 2016) I filed a “split year” and only reported US income May through December, and the following years I have been reporting calendar years as if they were coterminous with the HMRC year. This makes it easy and no need to track income April to April.

I do pay HMRC taxes and claim back on my US return with foreign tax credits.

Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


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Re: Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2020, 07:32:34 PM »
Thank you! That is very helpful. So,  just trying to wrap my head around timeline... do this sound right for a standard year (so next year for me)?

Early 2021 - Receive 2020 US W-2 and tax documents for all US income in 2020.
April-June 2021 - Use those documents to determine UK tax amount owed for UK tax year April 2020-April 2021, and submit UK tax return.
June 2021 - Submit US 2020 Tax Return, claiming the tax I calculated that I owe in the UK.

Thanks again, you've helped me feel a bit more confident in next steps.
Applied from: Florida, US
Priority: Yes
Online application submitted: Jan 25 2019
Biometrics & docs mailed: Jan 29 2019
Documents received in NY: Jan 30, 2019
Documents received by Sheffield on: Mar 4, 2019
Case Escalated: Mar 20, 2019
Case Escalated again: Mar 27, 2019
Decision Made Email: Apr 3, 2019
Received Passport: Apr 4, 2019
YES!


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  • Location: Eee, bah gum.
Re: Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2020, 09:11:51 PM »
That sounds about right for a standard year but I’m not a tax expert.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


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Re: Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 09:28:56 AM »
The premise of the question is not accurate. You only have UK source employment income. If the employer has not withheld tax and/or NIC under PAYE you will want to have paid the UK tax on the employment income to HMRC no later than 31 December 2019 so that you could have claimed the UK tax payment as a foreign tax credit on the 2019 US income tax return.  As this did not happen, you will want to pay tax due for both 2019-20 and 2020-21 to HMRC no later than 31 December 2020 so that you can carry back excess foreign tax credits from the 2020 US return.  You will want to look at the notes for page TR4, Box 4 and Ai2, Box 14 to see if relief can be claimed for 401(k) contributions.  The capital gains will need to be recalculated using UK share identification rules and spot exchange rates for each purchase and sale. The United States gives a credit for UK capital gains tax or income tax paid on any doubly taxed gains.


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Re: Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2020, 02:02:39 PM »
Hi @guya thank you for your reply. I am a bit confused about your statement about the UK source employment income. I work for an American company based in the US and am paid in American dollars to my US bank account. My employer cannot withhold UK tax or NIC under PAYE, because they are not a UK company. They've withheld US tax. Apologies if I've read your response wrong, but this is quite confusing. Any clarification would be appreciated.
Applied from: Florida, US
Priority: Yes
Online application submitted: Jan 25 2019
Biometrics & docs mailed: Jan 29 2019
Documents received in NY: Jan 30, 2019
Documents received by Sheffield on: Mar 4, 2019
Case Escalated: Mar 20, 2019
Case Escalated again: Mar 27, 2019
Decision Made Email: Apr 3, 2019
Received Passport: Apr 4, 2019
YES!


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  • Posts: 2623

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  • Joined: Dec 2005
Re: Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2020, 04:36:48 PM »
The employer could only have withheld FICA if they have a valid certificate of coverage. There is no requirement for the employer to withhold US tax because you do not have US source employment income.  You only have foreign (UK) source employment income.  The place that the money is paid from does not change the source of the income. If it did, everyone would get paid offshore and the UK Treasury would raise no tax.


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Re: Question about ONLY having foreign income and capital gains
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2020, 04:45:15 PM »
As you are working in the UK, you are entitled to all the employment law benefits that apply to the nation where you reside (Northern Ireland, Scotland, England or Wales). These include paid holidays, statutory sick pay, auto-enrolled pension plan, maternity/ paternity pay and leave etc. None of these are optional.  The employer will hopefully have taken advice on their obligations both in respect of tax and employment law. You may wish to ask the employer to share copies of any such advice with you.


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