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Topic: The US in chaos  (Read 6102 times)

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The US in chaos
« on: June 02, 2020, 09:41:23 PM »
Hello everyone,

Not sure if everyone is keeping up with whats happening back home but just wondering how you are processing this? I woke up and saw the news from the US and felt so overwhelmed I broke down in tears this morning.
“ For anything worth having one must pay the price; and the price is always work, patience, love, self-sacrifice.”
– John Burroughs

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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2020, 11:00:46 PM »
It's been hitting me quite hard. I have friends living in the MN neighbourhood where it all started who were hit with tear gas while cleaning up litter. A friend of friends featured in this article:  https://www.thedailybeast.com/even-medical-workers-fighting-covid-say-cops-are-attacking-them-at-george-floyd-protests

And so many more who have been directly impacted by the protests. My heart and head hurt when I think about it. And pray for everyone's safety. I participated in #blackouttuesday and was grateful that so many other friends around the world did, even those not so closely impacted by it.

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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2020, 09:46:31 AM »
We used to live in the Hi-Lake neighborhood, a block off of East Lake, before moving to London in 2017. I'm distraught over George Floyd's death and what's happened to our street. Margo, my heart goes out to your friends. I'm sure they're doing a great job holding everything together. I am really so proud of the resiliency and everything I'm seeing come out of Midtown Minneapolis, and across the city. I try not to read what the media is saying about it and just listen to what locals are reporting back and sharing.

I also feel really guilty. That my former neighbors aren't sleeping because they're staying vigilant, they're filling buckets with water to put out fires set by out-of-state arsonists with an agenda. While I sleep just fine at night (on furlough, with my NHS healthcare). I moved my postal address to my parents' in the suburbs when we sold our house and I've reached out to those local politicians to put pressure on state leadership to arrest the other three cops, and they're like, 'ugh, Minneapolis, not my problem.'

I think you've put it very well, Margo. My heart and my head hurt so much.
Met 2003
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Moved to the UK July 2017
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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2020, 11:24:39 AM »
It's very scary over there at present.  Our daughter lives alone in her house in Mid-City, LA and we worry about her safety.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2020, 12:14:34 PM »
I have a few friends at the DC protests and they said "it feels like we are going to war, please pray for us today". I am. There's no need for the evil orange toad in the oval office to escalate violence but he is on a mission to break the US for the profits of his friends. I don't know what tomorrow will look like, who else will have been hospitalised by his aggressive approach, but I stand by them 100%.

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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2020, 01:09:49 PM »
Margo, I can’t even begin to imagine what you must be going through. All of this is just heartbreaking. I feel angry, sad, guilty, scared...my family is in California and though they don’t live in major cities my dad sometimes gets sent to them for work. I wanted to beg him to not go near LA. Though he doesn’t really have a choice. Everyone I know is under curfew. The US really looks like a war zone. I believe in the protestors and I hope that all this isn’t for nothing. True change must happen.


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“ For anything worth having one must pay the price; and the price is always work, patience, love, self-sacrifice.”
– John Burroughs

US wife, UK Husband
Met-Aug 2011
Married-July 2017
Online App submitted-8/19/17
Passport returned-10/4/17
Decision-Approved!!


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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2020, 01:32:27 PM »
We were getting ready to have the mover's rep in, as soon as Scotland hits phase 2, to prep for our move back to the USA.  That is on hold now, for a while. Until we see where that is all going.

Biden is going to have a hell of a time straightening all this mess out, come next January.


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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2020, 04:31:12 PM »
It’s all too horrible for me, my outrage needle has been pegged for weeks now.   

I thought I was witnessing the US having a car crash before but I guess Trump's unique talent is always finding a way to lower the bar.

I feel guilty that I should pay more attention to what is happening and join in the outrage, but there's just too much.

If anyone is curious where this all could end up, listen to the podcast "it could happen here". Chilling description of the coming civil war.


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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2020, 09:56:13 AM »
It’s all too horrible for me, my outrage needle has been pegged for weeks now.   

I thought I was witnessing the US having a car crash before but I guess Trump's unique talent is always finding a way to lower the bar.

I feel guilty that I should pay more attention to what is happening and join in the outrage, but there's just too much.

If anyone is curious where this all could end up, listen to the podcast "it could happen here". Chilling description of the coming civil war.

Yes, yes - nodding head.  My head and heart ache.
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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2020, 10:29:58 AM »
Haven't listened to "It Could Happen Here" - it that the old cold war version where citizen apathy lets a power-mad totalitarian take over?

Looking back through history, this all is kind of normal for the US of A, really. The recent periods of relative calm, plus the severe censorship of the history we're all taught in school, tends to lull people into a "we're all one big happy family, best in the world, everyone loves us" kind of schtick. We "saved the world" in WW2. Man on the Moon: our-science-will-save-us. All that stuff.

They leave out the other stuff. There have been "race riots" many times in the past, usually with cause. There have been race massacres (the Indian campaigns, for starters). There were the private police forces who shot down Union protesters and their families (Leadville, CO. as an example) and got away with it without even a tap on the wrists. It took the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire to get even minimal workplace safety legislation passed. Formaldehyde in children's milk because there wasn't any law against it. Rivers that have caught fire. Medical experiments run by the government on prisoners (of all races). Agent Orange. Concentration camps where US citizens were interned because of their ancestry. Porkbelly spending by the government. Soldiers screwed over by their own government after their service "to the country." And during it. (Think "Jamming Jennies" for starters - ala M-16.)  Pershing's cavalry charge on and the burning of the Washington WWI Bonus Army camp. The draft riots during the Civil War. KKK.  The anti-Catholic riots where churches and orphanages were burned. "Burn the Witches!" "No Irish Need Apply." "Colored drinking fountains." "No Chinese served." The Chinese Exclusion Act. The "Mexican Repatriation" of the 1930s. Tailgunner Joe and his "anti-communist" purges that ruined careers and lives. Deed restrictions on which religions could live in certain parts of town. Mobsters owning the police. Politicians and gangster allegiances. Gangster and business alliances. Politicians and business allegiances. It goes on and on and on....

We have always been a loosely-aligned group of misfits who couldn't make it in other countries, or who were adventurous enough to leave for something better than we had there. Or who were born of the same. Criminals, social outcasts, religious nutters, entrepreneurs, adventurers, indentured servants, slaves, freemen, starving potato farmers thrown off our land in "the old country". People running to avoid being ethnically cleansed. We have never culturally been all that  "United" although we have stumbled along under the banner for a decent amount of time. Originally a colonial possession of several foreign powers, chance/warfare/money/deviousness allowed us to eventually cut those political ties. We were fortunate to have been able to find an unspoiled, resource-rich continent that was populated by persons it was easy to displace for our own gain. In effect, we've been participants in an ongoing, cosmic free-for-all, stopping only to wipe the blood off now and then.

The country will continue. It may change around the edges a bit. The fact that we now turn our backs on the same kind of people who we descend from is truly troubling, but it is what it is. (And apparently has been since the beginning.) Going forward: There will be a lot of "appropriate" things said and done over the current events, and perhaps 1/10th of them will stick as the rest revert back to whatever state they were in "before then" over time. The rest will be relegated to the history books - the ones in the library that nobody reads, not the ones they use in school.  There will be pandemics. Unfortunately, our lack of social cohesion will magnify the damage done as there's no "us" to protect, it's everyone for themselves and that will not be helpful. There will be riots. There will be justice in some cases and injustice elsewhere (depending on how one interprets the term in the first place). The media has always had its fingers in things. Now that people can film and upload (with and without context) it will just be "noisier" and fuzzier, until whatever event finally resolves itself after time and cooler heads prevail.

The sun will rise and set. All I can think of that might be even remotely useful to anyone is one of Gandalf's lines in LOTR.

“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

 8)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 02:27:23 PM by Nan D. »


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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2020, 03:47:57 AM »
This madness has got us restarting our plan to move over there.  We started in 2013 and what with one thing and another...But last year the idea came up again, and then a few weeks ago my husband was like 'I'm done. Let's go.  How soon do you think we can get the house on the market?'

As a Native woman, this is kind of devastating to me, that this place is irredeemable.  That my ancestral land has been so thoroughly raped and pillaged. That my people have been more than decimated.  And that my Black brothers and sisters have been continuously relegated to second class citizens from the moment that they were first considered actual people at all.

On the one hand, I want to participate in the revolution [and I might, as I won't be moving until we save up a bit more], but on the other, my children deserve healthcare and to not be shot by a stray bullet or in an accident or by the police standing up for their friends or intentionally in a massacre. 

My husband said it's because the american identity is one of pure selfishness.  All of these things stem from the fact that, as a society, we do not care about each other or about anyone else in the world.  It's every man for himself.  And it's ugly.
4 December 2005--Met in ATL, Moved in together
July 2006--First visit to the UK, met his Mum
Feb 2007--Eloped and told everyone we were engaged ;)
May 2007--Wedding, Part 1 in Pine Mountain, GA;
Sept 2007--Wedding, Part 2 in Scarborough, UK
Nov ‘08–1st Child
May ‘10–2nd Child
June 2013--Decided to move to the UK!
July 2013-Jan 2016–family tragedies. Delayed move
April ‘15–3rd Child
2019...planning again
January 2022–applying for visa!
Goal: Get Eldest in UK school by year 9!
Hopefully moving to Malvern June 2022


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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2020, 01:45:15 PM »
You may want to thoroughly research the climate in the area of the UK you are moving to. Things are not magically better here, the only difference is its mainly ignorance and there are less guns. They treat immigrants horribly. I want to move back to the US, but my husbands elderly parents are here. Just like the US there are areas that are worse than others though, Scotland seems to be much much better than England. We are headed for massive unemployment from Covid-19 and a huge depression from Brexit being slammed through, likely without a deal. No one is wearing masks because the government hasn't told them to so they feel they are just a nuisance that looks silly. It's big news in the US because of the political statements being made by "anti maskers", here is just another day of people only caring about themselves. The percentage of people wearing masks indoors here is about 1/3 of those in the US. Be prepared for this to be a very different country than what your husband left, and for it to not be safe from Covid at all. It is not sunshine and roses right now, even though the international press has kinda ignored it because the division in the US makes better headlines.

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Re: The US in chaos
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2020, 05:45:07 AM »
Fortunately it won't be in the next two years because we have to clear debt and then save back up in order to move with enough cash to buy a house etc. We also both work from home and my  husband's company has offices in Britain and he is in a stable field which is unlikely to crash. Unless there are drastic changes, we will both keep our current jobs. 

I know about researching areas!  He left, but he didn't leave it behind.  We've visited and have loads of family and friends.  We're in the loop! I know it's not perfect and the Brexit nonsense is, well, nonsense, but it is still better than here [read: guns and healthcare].
4 December 2005--Met in ATL, Moved in together
July 2006--First visit to the UK, met his Mum
Feb 2007--Eloped and told everyone we were engaged ;)
May 2007--Wedding, Part 1 in Pine Mountain, GA;
Sept 2007--Wedding, Part 2 in Scarborough, UK
Nov ‘08–1st Child
May ‘10–2nd Child
June 2013--Decided to move to the UK!
July 2013-Jan 2016–family tragedies. Delayed move
April ‘15–3rd Child
2019...planning again
January 2022–applying for visa!
Goal: Get Eldest in UK school by year 9!
Hopefully moving to Malvern June 2022


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