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Topic: Looking for advice and where to start?  (Read 2477 times)

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Looking for advice and where to start?
« on: October 15, 2021, 01:26:42 AM »
Hello everyone!

My long-distance significant other and I recently started looking into moving me into the UK to finally close the gap and we've been quite overwhelmed with the amount of information, different visa types, and requirements out there. We were hoping some kind folks here would be willing to help lead us in the right direction!

Our background:
I have been dating my girlfriend for the last 8 years long-distance with me as a United States citizen and her as a UK Citizen. Over the last 8 years, we have visited each other repeatedly in the United States and the UK (and vacations in Vietnam [I am also Vietnamese national] & Thailand!).

Just before the world became locked down, I was extremely fortunate to acquire a contracting job as a software engineer with a large fin-tech company in the United States and recently (End of August this year) have transitioned to a full-time position. With the world's state and the changing culture in software jobs, my workplace has generously allowed me to work remotely where I would like (considering I can legally.) With this promotion, I have come to have a significantly higher salary though I believe because I work for a US company, this salary would not be counted as income.

On the other hand, my girlfriend is an academic powerhouse having three degrees with two more on the way. She is currently pursuing a Ph.D. at the University of Leeds and for the next three years, she is expected to be within the country and live within a reasonable distance of the university. She is also a German national and can move about the EU freely.

Our Research:
With my remote job situation, my girlfriend's inability to move countries, our desire to live together as soon as possible, and be Mr. and Mrs., we thought it would be best if I would move to the UK for the foreseeable future.

We have been looking at Citizens' Advice's guidance on getting a visa for your partner to live in the UK (https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immigration/getting-a-visa-for-your-partner-to-live-in-the-uk/ [nofollow] ), the UK GOV website's article on the Family Visa (https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa [nofollow] ) after using their Check if you need a UK Visa tool, and your fabulous posts here on this forum!

With this, things still seem pretty unclear to us, especially what our best route is and meeting the minimum financial requirement. It also seems like I cannot have a job if I pursue the family visa and it may be better to pursue the marriage visa? There's a fiance visa apparently but I only see a family visa on these two sources? It's quite overwhelming ???

Our Questions
Given all of this information, we would appreciate it if we could have some guidance from more of you experienced people regarding:
  • What is the best potential visa for me to pursue? I am aware of the Marriage Visa which allows me to temporarily stay to get married to my partner and the Family Visa which would allow me to stay and stay permanently after 5 years and applying to settle.
  • How do we calculate this minimum financial requirement? I understand if we don't meet the £18,600 number for her income, savings that we both possess can come into play. I've read some advice about £16,000 plus £2.50 for every £1 your income is below the financial requirement? Would the formula here then be 16,000 + (18,600 - my partner's income) * 2.5 to retrieve that minimum financial requirement?
  • My girlfriend receives an "income" of £19,885 per year as part of her studentship/Ph.D. program. I understand that £18,600 is the magic number regarding income but would this amount count as income in our situation? £4,600 are counted as fees that go to the University and she truly only sees £15,285.
  • I've been told that the UK Government examines the last 6 months of your finances from the provided financial evidence and that they take the lowest balance from a particular account within that period. Is this true? For example, assuming I had the same amount of money in a checking account for the past 6 months, I lent out some money to a friend which they pay back the following month. Would the lowered amount be the determiner rather than the usual balance?
  • The Family Visa says I cannot work before I am married while in the UK. Does this mean I can take a leave from my job or that I cannot have one at all during that time?
  • I understand that we have to prove that we are in a relationship but is there a place or resource to find out what are all the accepted forms of evidence? I have numerous flight ticket receipts, my passport has stamps various times to the UK and each time I gave my reason to enter the country is to see my girlfriend when asked at the border,  we chat every day for hours on Discord including video calls, we have numerous pictures on social media together from our trips, etc.
  • Is there anything else we should be worrying about? We are also in that situation where we don't really know the right questions to ask :-\\\\.

Thank you so much for taking your precious time to read about our situation and I really hope that I was clear and adequate in the information I listed here. With your help, my partner and I can close this 8 year gap! Who knows, maybe you'll end up getting a few pints from me in a UK pub after I'm there  ;D


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Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2021, 04:07:16 AM »
    Welcome to the forum :)

    In regards to your visa options, there’s actually no such thing as a ‘Family Visa’… because there are a number of different types of Family Visas, also known as ‘Settlement Visas’, which cater for various different family members and situations (fiancés, spouses, civil partners, children, adult dependants, elderly dependants etc), so you apply for whichever type of Family/Settlement visa that applies to your relationship.

    In your case, the Settlement Visa options are:
    -
Marriage visa (also informally nicknamed the fiancé visa)… which is a 6-month visa that allows you to come to the UK to get married to a UK citizen and then switch to a 30-month FLR(M) (spousal) visa to stay in the UK after the wedding. The fiancé visa does NOT allow you to work, study or use the NHS for ‘free’, but the FLR(M) does.

- Spousal visa… a 33-month visa for people who are already married to a UK citizen to move to the UK to live with their spouse. This visa DOES allow you to work, study and use the NHS for ‘free’ (by way of paying an NHS surcharge of £624 per year, paid in full when you apply for the visa).

Initial Visa costs:
Fiancé visa = £1523 followed by FLR(M) = £1033 plus £1560 NHS surcharge
OR
Spousal visa = £1523 plus £1872 NHS surcharge.

Normally, it ends up being cheaper and easier for you to get married in the US (or a third country) first and then apply for a spousal visa, so you can work/study/use the NHS right away, and therefore bypass the need for a fiancé visa (she does not need a visa to marry in the US as long as she will return to the U.K. afterwards, but you do need a visa to marry in the U.K).… but with Covid restricting travel over the last 1.5 years, that hasn’t really been an option for most people recently.

You really just need to work out which visa (marriage or spousal) works out best for your personal situation.

  • How do we calculate this minimum financial requirement? I understand if we don't meet the £18,600 number for her income, savings that we both possess can come into play. I've read some advice about £16,000 plus £2.50 for every £1 your income is below the financial requirement? Would the formula here then be 16,000 + (18,600 - my partner's income) * 2.5 to retrieve that minimum financial requirement?
  • My girlfriend receives an "income" of £19,885 per year as part of her studentship/Ph.D. program. I understand that £18,600 is the magic number regarding income but would this amount count as income in our situation? £4,600 are counted as fees that go to the University and she truly only sees £15,285.

All of this is pretty much correct.

There are various different financial categories that you can apply under in order to meet the requirement. As you do not have the right to work in the UK yet, your US income cannot count for the first visa, so your options are:

Category A/B - Employment income:
- your girlfriend earns at least £18,600 per year (before tax) in employment income

Category C - Non-Employment income
- your girlfriend receives a PhD stipend of at least £15,800 per year (the equivalent of £18,600 after tax, since PhD stipends are tax-free) which she will continue to receive for at least 12 months after you apply for the visa

Category D - Cash Savings:
- between you, you have at least £62,500 (£16,000 + (2.5 x £18,600)) held in cash savings in bank account(s) in your name(s) which you have held in full for at least 6 months

If you can meet the requirements using just one Category, then you only provide evidence for that Category.

So if you are using Category D Cash Savings, you just provide 6 months of bank statements showing you have those savings

If you are using Category C - her PhD stipend - you just provide evidence of her stipend income and no cash savings evidence.

You can combine categories in certain circumstances, if you cannot meet the requirements using just one.

Quote
  • I've been told that the UK Government examines the last 6 months of your finances from the provided financial evidence and that they take the lowest balance from a particular account within that period. Is this true? For example, assuming I had the same amount of money in a checking account for the past 6 months, I lent out some money to a friend which they pay back the following month. Would the lowered amount be the determiner rather than the usual balance?

That’s correct - for Category D, the lowest single day balance in your bank account in the last 6 months is the only figure they will look at.

Basically, if you are using only your savings to meet the requirement, you must have held at least £62,500 in your account on every single day for the entire 6 months before applying. If the total drops below £62,500 for even 1 day, you will not meet the visa requirements.

If you both have savings in separate accounts, or one of you has money in different accounts, and you need to combine the accounts to make £62,500, only the lowest balance in each account on any day during the 6 months will count.

Quote
  • The Family Visa says I cannot work before I am married while in the UK. Does this mean I can take a leave from my job or that I cannot have one at all during that time?

You cannot carry out any work at all on a fiancé visa, not even remote work for a US company, or even unpaid volunteer work. Any activity that could be considered ‘work’ is illegal if you are on a fiancé visa.

That only applies to a fiancé visa though, not a spousal visa.

Quote
  • I understand that we have to prove that we are in a relationship but is there a place or resource to find out what are all the accepted forms of evidence? I have numerous flight ticket receipts, my passport has stamps various times to the UK and each time I gave my reason to enter the country is to see my girlfriend when asked at the border,  we chat every day for hours on Discord including video calls, we have numerous pictures on social media together from our trips, etc.

You need to show evidence of regular communication throughout the entire relationship:
- no more than 2 photos of you together, to prove you have met in person at least one time
- boarding passes from visits to see each other
- any letters/cards you may have sent to each other
- screenshots of a selection of call/message/email logs showing you talk to each other regularly
 (I.e. if you have been together 8 years, you might send screenshots of 1 email every 2-3 months, 1 message every 2-3 months, 1 call every 2-3 months, etc.)
No actual email or message content should be included, just a list of names/dates/times covering all 8 years, all pasted onto no more than 2-3 sheets of paper for each communication type.

Quote
  • Is there anything else we should be worrying about? We are also in that situation where we don't really know the right questions to ask :-\\\\.

You also need to provide:

A letter of support from your girlfriend
A copy of your girlfriend’s passport
All current passports you hold (including from other nationalities)
All your previous passports
Any divorce decrees if either of you have been married before

Evidence of suitable accommodation to live in together in the U.K., for example:
If she rents:
- her tenancy agreement
- letter from her landlord giving you permission to live there when you get your visa

If she owns:
- her Land Registry document
- her latest mortgage statement

If you will live with family or friends:
- their Land Registry document
- their latest mortgage statement
- letter from the homeowner giving you permission to live there when you get your visa and stating the house will not be overcrowded

If applying for a fiancé visa, evidence of plans to marry in the U.K. within 6 months:
- email communication from the church or registry office enquiring about possible ceremony dates
You can also include:
- provisional bookings
- photos of the rings/dress etc.
(Don’t book anything official until you have the visa though)

Hope this helps, and feel free to add any more questions you have in this thread. It’s easier for us to help (and remember your situation) if we keep all the posts about your application in the same thread, so all the info and advice is on one page:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/list]
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 04:20:32 AM by ksand24 »


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2021, 04:55:25 AM »

  • The Family Visa says I cannot work before I am married while in the UK. Does this mean I can take a leave from my job or that I cannot have one at all during that time?


You don't need to quit, It will be fine to take a leave of absence from your job.


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2021, 08:25:22 AM »
ksand24 with her ever valued knowledge.

It's significantly easier to get married beforehand in somewhere like USA and apply on a spousal visa. It's cheaper overall, you can work immediately and you get access to the NHS immediately. The only downside is not a big fancy wedding in a British church. You could always do a big ceremony afterwards, though.

Once you're over, you can then count your income towards the next stages of the process.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 08:27:34 AM by Ben1989 »
Feb 2014 - Married
29/04/2014 - Spouse Application Approved
02/05/2014 - Visa Received
09/01/2017 - FLR(M) Granted
22/07/2019 - ILR Granted
05/05/2022 - Citizenship


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2021, 08:48:52 AM »
ksand24 with her ever valued knowledge.

It's significantly easier to get married beforehand in somewhere like USA and apply on a spousal visa. It's cheaper overall, you can work immediately and you get access to the NHS immediately. The only downside is not a big fancy wedding in a British church. You could always do a big ceremony afterwards, though.

Once you're over, you can then count your income towards the next stages of the process.

We used to highly recommend that to every couple but since the restrictions due to Covid, the fiancee visa has been the more viable option for most for a while now.  Things look like they are starting to open up now though and third country marriage potentially still an option.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requirements


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2021, 08:57:55 AM »
She is also a German national and can move about the EU freely.

Has she been granted British citizenship, or granted Settled Status or Pre-Settled Status? As the UK is not in the EU, she will need one of those to to be able to sponsor you to the UK.


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2021, 09:02:21 AM »

Has she been granted British citizenship, or granted Settled Status or Pre-Settled Status? As the UK is not in the EU, she will need one of those to to be able to sponsor you to the UK.

I have been dating my girlfriend for the last 8 years long-distance with me as a United States citizen and her as a UK Citizen.

She's dual.  :)
 


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2021, 06:09:41 PM »
Thank you thank you thank you ksand2, larrabee, and Ben1989 for all the detailed information!!!

Dissecting your absolute wealth of information here, it seems like the best course of action for our situation is pursuing the spousal visa and get married in the US after the borders open up for UK -> US travel in November.
I'm basing this on the fact that I would like to continue to still work (and not cause problems for my employer and team) and be able to use the NHS when needed.

It seems most of our questions have been revolved around the financial requirement and sorry if we’re repeating ourselves a bit but we would appreciate some additional clarification on:

Dwelving deeper into what was said:
  • Regarding finances, I assume the same requirements are required in both the Marriage and Spousal Visas?
  • We, unfortunately, don't meet the requirements for Category D (£62,500 wow..) but for Category A/B and Category C, would the gross amount of £19,885 from her PhD stipend (which is tax-free) count, or would the maintenance amount of £15,285 count? She only truly sees £15,285 as maintenance in her bank account after "tuition fees" are deducted by the University. Assuming the £19,885 amount for Category A/B counts, this would be quite a simple situation no?
Quote
Category C - Non-Employment income
- your girlfriend receives a PhD stipend of at least £15,800 per year (the equivalent of £18,600 after tax, since PhD stipends are tax-free) which she will continue to receive for at least 12 months after you apply for the visa
  • Assuming the maintenance portion is the only amount that counts, £15,285, there is a deficit of £3,315 for Category A/B (£18,600 - £15,285) and £515 for Category C (£15,800 - £15,285). Would cash savings then be applicable here? Citizen’s Advice states that we would need to meet “£16,000 plus £2.50 for every £1 your income is below the financial requirement” for our minimum financial requirement with income + savings. Would this financial requirement number differ between which Category we are pursuing (18,600 vs 15,800)?

Some Additional Questions:
  • I’ve come across some discussions that apparently I wouldn’t be able to work as a remote software engineer for a US company after this is all done and I have the spousal visa as the US company wouldn’t be able to meet local laws, taxes, etc. Is this true? I’m aware that I will be double-taxed but surely the UK wouldn’t care who my employer is as long as I’m reporting my income and paying my taxes diligently? My employer does have a global presence including an office in London but the company and I would rather not go through the laborious work visa route (as well as having to give me a pay cut and find business justification to introduce an engineering division to the London branch).
Quote
ksand24 with her ever valued knowledge.

It's significantly easier to get married beforehand in somewhere like USA and apply on a spousal visa. It's cheaper overall, you can work immediately and you get access to the NHS immediately. The only downside is not a big fancy wedding in a British church. You could always do a big ceremony afterwards, though.

Once you're over, you can then count your income towards the next stages of the process.
  • Maybe this question is more reaching into the future when I should be more focusing on the present but Ben1989 mentioned that my income can count towards the “next stages of the process”. Is this referring to extending my stay in the UK after the initial 33-month stay (and later the goal of ILR)?

Thank you again for all of your time and my partner and I are extremely grateful to you all for volunteering to assist in our situation!


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2021, 06:21:58 PM »
Yes, your employment income can be considered only when you're in the UK with a visa which permits you to work. So FLR at 2.5 years and ILR. If you had any non employment income such as that from savings or investments, it can be used now.

It's not that you won't be permitted to work remotely once you have your spouse visa, it's just that it's more complicated than just paying tax in both countries. You might want to start a specific thread on that alone to see if you can find out all the ins and outs.


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2021, 06:50:45 PM »
Regarding finances, I assume the same requirements are required in both the Marriage and Spousal Visas?

Yes, the financial requirement is the same regardless if you opt for the fiance(e)/marriage route, or the spouse route.

Quote
...for Category A/B and Category C, would the gross amount of £19,885 from her PhD stipend (which is tax-free) count, or would the maintenance amount of £15,285 count?

I'm not sure, but if her stated stipend is £19,885 gross, I would think that would be the applicable amount to apply to the requirement.  ksand?

Quote
I’ve come across some discussions that apparently I wouldn’t be able to work as a remote software engineer for a US company after this is all done and I have the spousal visa as the US company wouldn’t be able to meet local laws, taxes, etc. Is this true?

There isn't a ban on, or law against, working remotely for a US company once you are living in the UK.  But I suspect that it might differ from company to company, and be dependent on each organization's familiarity with employing people remotely/overseas and being able to meet all the legal and tax requirements in both countries. 

Quote
Maybe this question is more reaching into the future when I should be more focusing on the present but Ben1989 mentioned that my income can count towards the “next stages of the process”. Is this referring to extending my stay in the UK after the initial 33-month stay

Yes.  For employment income, for the first visa, the responsibility is typically on the UK sponsor to meet the financial requirements unless the US applicant already has a UK visa that permits work.  But once you have permission to work in the UK with a spouse visa or FLR(M), when you apply for the next visa to continue your UK residency for ILR, you'll be able to use your employment earnings towards the financial requirement as you'll then be in a position of already having permission to work in the UK with the spouse or FLR(M) visa.


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2021, 07:49:51 PM »
Yes, your employment income can be considered only when you're in the UK with a visa which permits you to work. So FLR at 2.5 years and ILR. If you had any non employment income such as that from savings or investments, it can be used now.

It's not that you won't be permitted to work remotely once you have your spouse visa, it's just that it's more complicated than just paying tax in both countries. You might want to start a specific thread on that alone to see if you can find out all the ins and outs.

Thank you for clearing this up for me.
Small question about investments, does the UK government count how much your portfolio is worth as proven through statements (e.g. the Robinhood app's monthly statements) or only realized gains?

Regarding the remote work situation, I don't expect you to go into detail here but could you give me a surface level/nutshell of what other things I may have to consider here particularly, legally. I understand that there have to be time zone considerations with my work colleagues, IT hardware repairs may be a bit of an issue, correspondence delivered to me in the states, etc. but I don't believe I'm totally clear on the legal ramifications of working for a US company in the UK. I will still go ahead and make a thread about Remote Software Engineer work in the UK as I think it'll be helpful for more than just me unless there is already one that you're aware of?

Thank you for your help Larrabee.



Appreciate the confirmation regarding my additional questions Aquila!

If it'll help to include, here's some of the verbiage of the studentship offer letter that partner has received with some redacted personal information:
Quote
I am pleased to offer you a Studentship for session 2020/21. The Studentship is available for UK/EU candidates registering
for PhD degree study on a full-time basis for a maximum period of 4 years. The offer is subject to
the following conditions:
  • (i) That you meet any conditions that may be stated in your academic offer letter;
  • (ii) the award is tenable for one year in the first instance in the School, and is
    renewable annually for a maximum period of four years subject to satisfactory academic
    progress and on the condition that you have successfully passed the taught
    components of the course and completed the “transfer” process at the end of year
    2 and that you are eligible for full PhD registration at the start of your third year of
    research. In the event that you are not transferred to full PhD registration by the end of
    the second year of study, the Studentship may be withdrawn;
  • (iii) the Studentship must be taken up by no later than 1 October 2020;
  • (iv) the award will cover academic fees at the UK/EU rate (£4,600) together with a
    maintenance allowance of £15,285 for the first year of study (the level is reviewed
    annually). There are additional allowances for research expenses and conference
    attendance - subject to Centre for Doctoral Training requirements.
    If you accept this studentship you will have met the Funding Conditions laid out in your
    offer of a place to study letter.
...
Value:
Fees £4,600
Maintenance £15,285
Total £19,885



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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2021, 08:20:52 PM »
Have you seen the financial requirement document?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996814/appendix-fm-1-7-financial-requirement-v7.0-ext.pdf

This is also useful.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

I think most people seem to go along the lines of becoming an independent contractor as a work around for the US employer not being able to meet UK employment laws.


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Re: Looking for advice and where to start?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2021, 11:20:38 PM »
Have you seen the financial requirement document?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996814/appendix-fm-1-7-financial-requirement-v7.0-ext.pdf [nofollow]

This is also useful.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence [nofollow]

I think most people seem to go along the lines of becoming an independent contractor as a workaround for the US employer not being able to meet UK employment laws.

Thank you for linking the document to the financial requirement appendix. I've come across it before but I clearly did not delve into it as deep as I thought I did. Also, appreciate the knowledge regarding contracting. I'll probably have to discuss this more with my company and perhaps legal entities in the UK to get a better understanding of my situation.


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