Digital-Only Lease as Evidence for FLR(M)?

Hi everyone,

My current FLR(M) expires 27 May, so we're starting to get our ducks in a row now and have come up against a question about the cohabitation evidence.

We're planning to apply the first week of May, so are planning to use the following evidence:

April 2021: Joint Bank Statement
August 2021: my individual bank statement, water bill in my husband's name
December 2021: Joint Bank Statement
April 2022: Joint Bank Statement
August 2022: new lease (same flat, but a full renewal) in both names
December 2022: Joint Bank Statement
April 2023: Joint Bank Statement

By my count this is three kinds of evidence (bank statements, water bill, lease) spread evenly across the two years.

However, the estate agency only does digital leases - we signed the whole thing online, as did the landlord.

While I know this will work for the accommodation requirement - the lease we used last time around was literally identical - I just want to check that this will be fine for cohabitation evidence even though it didn't come it in the post.

If it isn't, we'll make sure that in December and then April we get at least one other kind of bill (likely electricity) in one of our names, and use a solo bank statement for the other person.

Thanks!

Hi everyone,

My current FLR(M) expires 27 May, so we're starting to get our ducks in a row now and have come up against a question about the cohabitation evidence.

We're planning to apply the first week of May, so are planning to use the following evidence:

April 2021: Joint Bank Statement
August 2021: my individual bank statement, water bill in my husband's name
December 2021: Joint Bank Statement
April 2022: Joint Bank Statement
August 2022: new lease (same flat, but a full renewal) in both names
December 2022: Joint Bank Statement
April 2023: Joint Bank Statement

By my count this is three kinds of evidence (bank statements, water bill, lease) spread evenly across the two years.

However, the estate agency only does digital leases - we signed the whole thing online, as did the landlord.

While I know this will work for the accommodation requirement - the lease we used last time around was literally identical - I just want to check that this will be fine for cohabitation evidence even though it didn't come it in the post.

If it isn't, we'll make sure that in December and then April we get at least one other kind of bill (likely electricity) in one of our names, and use a solo bank statement for the other person.

Thanks!

You are correct that it's fine for the accommodation evidence but I would find another source for the  correspondence evidence.

You are correct that it's fine for the accommodation evidence but I would find another source for the  correspondence evidence.

That's what I was leaning toward, so thanks for confirming!

We've got a council tax bill from that month (in my name) and my husband's bank statement, so that will be fine.

The one thing we're nervous about with the council tax is it was a reissued bill showing that we're exempt from council tax (it turns out, if the only people in the property are a student and their spouse, who is not eligible for public funds or can't work, the entire property is exempt! We got several thousand pounds back from the council as we'd been paying for two years...) so the bill is a bit weird. It's probably best to use something more straightforward, yes?

Of course, I might be overthinking this - the council tax wasn't us doing anything nefarious, it just looks a bit strange!

That's what I was leaning toward, so thanks for confirming!

We've got a council tax bill from that month (in my name) and my husband's bank statement, so that will be fine.

The one thing we're nervous about with the council tax is it was a reissued bill showing that we're exempt from council tax (it turns out, if the only people in the property are a student and their spouse, who is not eligible for public funds or can't work, the entire property is exempt! We got several thousand pounds back from the council as we'd been paying for two years...) so the bill is a bit weird. It's probably best to use something more straightforward, yes?

Of course, I might be overthinking this - the council tax wasn't us doing anything nefarious, it just looks a bit strange!

Are you both students? Looking at the guidance, (very quickly) it doesn't look like one student and one other adult would be completely exempt, just that there would be an exemption for the student.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/who-has-to-pay

Hopefully @Sirius or someone else who knows the system can confirm.

I would say use anther piece of evidence to keep it simple however, you'll need to include your council tax bill anyway as part of your accommodation evidence. Either way it needs to be clarified and if a mistake has been made, corrected.

Apologies if the situation is correct and I'm causing you any worry but it's better to be safe than sorry.

The one thing we're nervous about with the council tax is it was a reissued bill showing that we're exempt from council tax (it turns out, if the only people in the property are a student and their spouse, who is not eligible for public funds or can't work, the entire property is exempt! We got several thousand pounds back from the council as we'd been paying for two years...) so the bill is a bit weird. It's probably best to use something more straightforward, yes?

Students are exempt from council tax, but I think you might find their partner is only exempt from Council Tax if they are on a Tier 4 dependant visa. If they aren't, then that partner pays council tax, but can apply for the 25% single person discount.

Discounts for full-time students

Households where everyone’s a full-time student do not have to pay Council Tax. If you do get a bill, you can apply for an exemption.

To count as a full-time student, your course must:

    last at least 1 year
    involve at least 21 hours study per week

If you study for a qualification up to A level and you’re under 20, your course must:

    last at least 3 months
    involve at least 12 hours study per week

You’ll get a Council Tax bill if there’s someone in your household who’s not a full-time student, but your household might still qualify for a discount.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/discounts-for-full-time-students

Students are exempt from council tax, but I think you might find their partner is only exempt from Council Tax if they are on a Tier 4 dependant visa. If they aren't, then that partner pays council tax, but can apply for the 25% single person discount.
https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/discounts-for-full-time-students

I'm not a student, but because my husband was (he's finished his degree now) and I don't have recourse to public funds, I was classed as exempt for the duration of his studies. This interpretation has been confirmed in legal precedent and by the Council themselves (and their legal team). This isn't a question about if the discount is right, it's a question of the documentation looking strange.

If you want details, by The Council Tax (Exempt Dwellings) Order 1992 (SI 1992/558) and its amendment The Council Tax (Discount Disregards and Exempt Dwellings) (Amendment) Order 1995 (SI 1995/619), the dwelling was exempt from council tax under class N because the property was solely occupied by a British student and their non-British spouse, who is not eligible to claim public funds.

This interpretation of the law was confirmed by Harrow Borough Council v Ayiku [2012] EWHC 1200, and guidance to this effect can be found in the Valuation Tribunal Service Council Tax Guidance Manual (paragraph 9.3.10b).

If you’re using it for the correspondence evidence, I don’t think it matters if the documentation looks strange or not.

All they will be looking to check is:
- that it was issued by a government organisation (local council)
- that it shows both your names at the same address
- the date on it is evenly-spaced between your other documents

This interpretation of the law was confirmed by Harrow Borough Council v Ayiku [2012] EWHC 1200, and guidance to this effect can be found in the Valuation Tribunal Service Council Tax Guidance Manual (paragraph 9.3.10b).

Thanks for this. That's an interesting read. A case brought by someone in the UK on a  dependent visa of an international student.

The judge noted that although those on a dependant visa can work, they might not be able to find work and non-payment of council tax can lead to imprisonment. The judge noted that they might not be allowed to work as they were not on a dependent visa or a work visa.

However, this case was back in the day when there was a means tested benefit called Council Tax Benefit (a public fund) which paid all of the claimants council tax. An out of work  partner of a student and that partner could take public funds, could claim that benefit and get all their council tax paid. But that benefit has been replaced by a benefit called Council Tax Reduction that often does not cover the entire council tax bill. An out of work partner of a student and that partner can take public funds, will not have to pay some council tax. The relevant part of the Council Tax Discount law, hasn't (yet?) been changed to reflect the welfare changes.

This seems to be the relevant part of the Council Tax disregard law

a student’s spouse or dependant being in either case a person who is not a British citizen and who is prevented, by the terms of his leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, from taking paid employment or from claiming benefits; 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/619/article/5/made


As that judge in that case stated, at that time there is no requirement for an international student to show that they have enough funds to pay their accommodation in the UK. That changed and now international students must prove they have funds to pay for their accommodation and living costs while in the UK and show extra funds for each dependant they want to bring. And now some international (Tier 4) students are not allowed to work.


Interestingly, a Citizens Advice welfare advisor wrote an article telling people to speak a specialist immigration advicor if you want to claim the means tested Council Tax Reduction benefit  (or are still on the old Council Tax Benefit) and have a No Recourse to Public Funds partner, because of the way that benefit is calculated.

Thanks for this. That's an interesting read. A case brought by someone in the UK on a  dependent visa of an international student.

The judge noted that although those on a dependant visa can work, they might not be able to find work and non-payment of council tax can lead to imprisonment. The judge noted that they might not be allowed to work as they were not on a dependent visa or a work visa.

However, this case was back in the day when there was a means tested benefit called Council Tax Benefit (a public fund) which paid all of the claimants council tax. An out of work  partner of a student who could take public funds, could claim that benefit and get all their council tax paid. However, that benefit has been replaced by a benefit called Council Tax Reduction that often does not cover the entire council tax bill.

This seems to be the relevant part of the Council Tax disregard law
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/619/article/5/made


As that judge in that case stated, at that time there is no requirement for an international student to show that they have enough funds to pay their accommodation in the UK. That changed and now international students must prove they have funds to pay for their accommodation and living costs while in the UK and show extra funds for each dependant they want to bring. And now some international (Tier 4) students are not allowed to work.


Interestingly, a Citizens Advice welfare advisor wrote an article telling people to speak a specialist immigration advicor if you want to claim the means tested Council Tax Reduction benefit  (or are still on the old Council Tax Benefit) and have a No Recourse to Public Funds partner, because of the way that benefit is calculated.

The case was brought by the dependent of someone on a student visa, but notably the judge (and the legislation) did not say that the exemption only applied to student dependents. It was student spouses who were not allowed to claim benefits or work, which has been interpreted since to mean spouses of British students as well.

I wasn't receiving any benefits. I was just exempt, per the line of the legislation you quoted, which was the law I pointed out to you in the first place. Council tax exemptions based on student status aren't Public Funds, otherwise international students would all be paying.

This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. I haven't done anything outside the terms of my visa. I just came here to get some advice on my documents list.

This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. I haven't done anything outside the terms of my visa. I just came here to get some advice on my documents list.

I didn't say it was a "gotchal. It's merely a case of the Council Tax Discount law not reflecting the changes brought in under the Welfare Refom laws, where now nearly everyone has to pay some council tax. Even a pensioner on low income and claiming Housing Benefit, (rent) or SMI (mortgage help), or a jobseeker receiving £77 per week benefit, pays council tax.

Likely it will take one of the councils to challange and change the discount law, or an MP.

Your council will list what the council tax pays for.

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/500337/what_it_pays_for/5528/what_your_council_tax_pays_for

The Council Tax you pay, which makes up 30.3% of total council income in 2022/23, goes towards the cost of providing a wide range of services for the people of Manchester. These include:

    Youth services
    Libraries
    Parks, open spaces and galleries
    Leisure facilities, including swimming pools and recreation centres
    Social care for older people, children and other vulnerable members of the community
    Support for the voluntary sector
    Planning and building control
    Refuse collection, street cleaning and other environmental issues
    Maintenance of roads and bridges
    Traffic management and road safety
    Parking services and control
    Elections, registrars of births, marriages and deaths
    Cemeteries, crematoria and mortuary services
    Consumer protection
    Economic development and regeneration
    Community development services
    Housing, including the provision of social housing, housing strategy and advice and services for the homeless
    Housing Benefits and Council Tax administration.

It will also pay towards services such as police.