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Topic: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?  (Read 1901 times)

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Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« on: January 26, 2023, 09:43:11 PM »
Hi,

I've almost completed the streamlined procedure with TFX after moving to the UK when I was a child and being unaware of tax obligations. I've paid them over $4000 to do this work for me, a huge chunk of which was for my funds. I had money invested in 13 different funds and they charged £75 per fund per year. I totally freaked out, sold all of my funds before the end of Dec and am now feeling completely lost as to what I can do with the money. It's not sustainable to pay that much each year to add them on the tax return, I can't do them myself (I don't think?). Can I give the money to my husband (UK citizen only, never lived in USA & have filed 'married filing separately') and he can reinvest it? There is about £25,000 I guess.

Next thing, my father passed away recently and I am due some inheritance money. Is this taxable? We are thinking we may put it towards buying a second property to either flip or rent (which I guess is taxable) and that it would be better to have the second property in his name only so there is no obligation to add any of this to my US tax return. If this is the case,
should I have it all paid straight to my husband so it never reaches my bank account?

After this streamlined procedure, the stress, the cost, the ongoing obligations to file every year, I'm now seriously considering giving up my citizenship. We don't earn much money at all and this has been a huge cost to us as a family. I have always been good at saving and investing, most of which went towards buying our house but now feel like I can't even do this as the cost to fill out the forms is so horrendous (more than i'd even make in gains for a year).

Please excuse the huge amount of ignorance regarding US taxes, I've the had the most horrendous year for so many different reasons and this has just been another massive stress I've been struggling to deal with on top of it all. I am about to pay another £150 or so for a half hour of advice from the tax company but thought I may come on here first in case anyone is able to help.

Any help or advice is SO greatly appreciated, even if it's not specific to my queries as I don't want to give up my citizenship but need to figure out the most sensible thing to do with my money.


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Re: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2023, 10:17:17 PM »
I am not a tax pro but would think there is no tax obligation in giving your husband a sum of around £25,000, and also in having his name only on any property you plan to buy and rent out. Being only a UK person and you filing as MFS his income and assets should be of no concern to the IRS.

As to your inheritance my experience is that the estate of the deceased is liable to any taxes and the residual that is distributed is not liable to any taxes by either the IRS or HMRC. There may some complication I think if the monies are not distributed immediately and there are gains while it sits in accounts managed by the executors.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


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Re: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2023, 10:38:37 PM »
Thank you for that. The main thought behind the inheritance being paid straight to him was what we end up doing with it. If invested it will need to be in his name, if in a property it will be in his name etc, so it just seemed logical that there's no reason it really ever needs to come to me first.


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Re: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2023, 06:31:26 AM »
Also not a tax/legal professional, but agree with durhamlad. On each point:

Can I give the money to my husband (UK citizen only, never lived in USA & have filed 'married filing separately') and he can reinvest it? There is about £25,000 I guess.

This would not be taxable. There is a limit on gifts to non-US spouses (have to look it up, but by memory it's something like $120k a year) - if you exceed that limit, you would need to file a gift tax form on your US taxes, and the gift would be deducted from your $11 million-ish lifetime limit on gifts and estate taxes. Unless you expect your estate to exceed that $11M-ish limit, gifts are not much concern (if you find yourself in that lucky situation, some professional estate planning advice would be a good investment!)

There are options for US citizens investing from the UK, but none of them are without complications. See the list here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investing_from_the_UK_for_US_citizens_and_US_permanent_residents#Investment_account_options (disclaimer: I wrote a large part of that page, although other contributors have reviewed what I wrote - definitely not professional advice). Happy to answer any questions on those options if I can.

Quote
Next thing, my father passed away recently and I am due some inheritance money. Is this taxable? ... If this is the case,
should I have it all paid straight to my husband so it never reaches my bank account?

Receiving money from an estate is not taxable in the US or UK. No harm in it being paid into your bank account (US or UK). If it passes through a non-US account with your name on it (including jointly), you'd report on FBAR and form 8938, if you exceed the applicable limits.

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We are thinking we may put it towards buying a second property to either flip or rent (which I guess is taxable) and that it would be better to have the second property in his name only so there is no obligation to add any of this to my US tax return.

Capital gains from a non-primary residence would be taxable in both the US and UK, as would rental income. Foreign tax credits apply, so you probably wouldn't actually owe any US tax if it was partially in your name, but you would need to report it to the US. Putting the second property entirely in your husband's name would mean it all gets reported on his UK tax return, doesn't touch your UK or US tax returns. Depending on the income level of you and your husband, that could result in higher or lower taxes (e.g. if he's a 40% payer and you're a 20% payer, choosing to have him have 100% ownership of the house would result in paying higher UK taxes). Having the non-US spouse have assets entirely in their name isn't an uncommon strategy. Consequences in case of divorce or unexpected death (and thus impact on estate taxes) should be considered.

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After this streamlined procedure, the stress, the cost, the ongoing obligations to file every year, I'm now seriously considering giving up my citizenship. We don't earn much money at all and this has been a huge cost to us as a family. I have always been good at saving and investing, most of which went towards buying our house but now feel like I can't even do this as the cost to fill out the forms is so horrendous (more than i'd even make in gains for a year).

Renouncing US citizenship is an unfortunate but common step for US citizens living abroad, especially people like you without any significant ties to the US. There are more hoops to jump through and more costs to pay, but when its done you'll have no US tax complications ever again. It's a very personal decision, so I won't make any recommendation either way, but certainly an option to consider.


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Re: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2023, 07:07:24 AM »
Be mindful of IRS form 3520 should there be no deed of variation in Will.


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Re: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2023, 09:40:26 AM »
The 1992 PFIC regulations say that a gift of a PFIC is a disposition. I would discuss this issue with your existing accountant. Your father's estate is a specified foreign financial asset, reported on Form 8938. Distributions from the estate are reported on Form 3520. Since you have never filed in the US, has your existing accountant discussed the Relief Procedures For Certain Former Citizens with you instead of the streamlined procedures. This will almost certainly produce a better outcome in your circumstances.

Incidentally,  I find it slightly curious - writing as a UK based dually US and UK qualified tax firm - that our fees would be less than a firm located offshore such as the one mentioned.


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Re: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2023, 11:51:14 AM »
The 1992 PFIC regulations say that a gift of a PFIC is a disposition. I would discuss this issue with your existing accountant. Your father's estate is a specified foreign financial asset, reported on Form 8938. Distributions from the estate are reported on Form 3520. Since you have never filed in the US, has your existing accountant discussed the Relief Procedures For Certain Former Citizens with you instead of the streamlined procedures. This will almost certainly produce a better outcome in your circumstances.

Incidentally,  I find it slightly curious - writing as a UK based dually US and UK qualified tax firm - that our fees would be less than a firm located offshore such as the one mentioned.

Excellent points as always, but I'd like the OP to clarify a couple of things.

She said that she cashed out all her funds so I believe she would be transferring cash to her husband for him to invest as he sees fit so the transfer of PFICs may not be an issue.

With her saying that she moved to the UK I assumed that her father was living in the USA when he passed but I'm most certainly wrong about that so she would have to see if form 3250 needs to be filed if he died in the UK.

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-3520

Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


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Re: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2023, 10:50:49 PM »
The 1992 PFIC regulations say that a gift of a PFIC is a disposition. I would discuss this issue with your existing accountant. Your father's estate is a specified foreign financial asset, reported on Form 8938. Distributions from the estate are reported on Form 3520. Since you have never filed in the US, has your existing accountant discussed the Relief Procedures For Certain Former Citizens with you instead of the streamlined procedures. This will almost certainly produce a better outcome in your circumstances.

Incidentally,  I find it slightly curious - writing as a UK based dually US and UK qualified tax firm - that our fees would be less than a firm located offshore such as the one mentioned.

I'm really interested to know what the fees are like, I'm not sure if you're allowed to disclose where you work? It was a bit of a google and choose a company with good reviews for me as that's all I had to go on but didn't seem to find many places in the UK that offered this service. I'm contemplating renouncing my citizenship as it is just so much stress and cost every year but maybe it doesn't need to be?

I also was wondering if you know of a company in the UK that deals with other US tax issues? Without going into loads of detail, my father always did the taxes and my mother is clueless. She has come to realise though that there are some accounts that are undisclosed and needs to sort it out as well as wanting to renounce her citizenship. I understand the consequences can be quite severe but it is causing a LOT of stress and she needs to deal with it once and for all and doesn't want to be a citizen anymore. I have done some research on her situation and understand she will need a tax lawyer not just an accountant but she is struggling to find the right company to help her with this..


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Re: Investing in funds, inheritance & gifting a UK spouse?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2023, 09:38:24 AM »
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