Brit Moving Back To The UK (I forgot how it is!)

i found a website and to maintain the same standard of living in london to what i earn in utah ($48000) i would need to earn about the same in figures in british pounds, about 46000 british pounds to be precise!

therefore 25K in the UK is like earning 27K in utah. note that the feds put a family of three on 18K as poverty level in the US

why do people even become lawyers. my mother works as a nurse in a small provincial town in britain and earns 20K a year.

also, the math doesn't work out.  25K a year will give a family of three 1500/month after the extortionate taxes and deductions. i've found a modest two roomer to rent for 800/month, another 100 for council tax, another 100 for utilities, then there's a 300 pound minimum monthly student loan repayment, travel costs of say 100/month, food and clothing, savings toward retirement ?, plus i'd like to save about 500/month for emergencies.

if this is not a low income then all i can imagine is that there are destitute lawyers and doctors and so on all over the UK some of whom are bordering on homeless!!

You might find you will be happier to stay in the US if you think it will be a problem living over here! 

note that the feds put a family of three on 18K as poverty level in the US

There are a number of families that I know here in Utah that live on 18k or less and they manage to live in a small but decent house and clothe and feed their kids.  It's all a matter of priorities and careful budgeting.  They cook at home instead of eating out.  They may take a short camping trip for a vacation instead of flying to Europe.  They drive older cars.  They learn to cut hair themselves instead of paying a hairdresser to do it.  Sure, we'd ALL like to make more money!!!  But I'm looking at moving to the UK this year with my two kids and would LOVE to be offered a job that makes 25,000 pounds!!!

There are a number of families that I know here in Utah that live on 18k or less and they manage to live in a small but decent house and clothe and feed their kids.  It's all a matter of priorities and careful budgeting.  They cook at home instead of eating out.  They may take a short camping trip for a vacation instead of flying to Europe.  They drive older cars.  They learn to cut hair themselves instead of paying a hairdresser to do it.  Sure, we'd ALL like to make more money!!!  But I'm looking at moving to the UK this year with my two kids and would LOVE to be offered a job that makes 25,000 pounds!!!

yep, they're poverty level. the difference is that lawyers in utah earn somewhat more than that, whereas it seems a lot of lawyers in the uk aren't earning much more.

seriously, i know plenty of high school dropouts who earn $20 an hour doing unskilled manual labor!

is there any brilliant mathmatician here who can tell me exactly why salaries in utah are lower than london when the latter is richer?

maybe you're just not worth as much here as you are in Utah?

Look, you can live in Utah and have a higher standard of living or you can move to London and have a higher cost of living.  The difference?  I would have thought that was obvious to someone as educated as you.  Utah is Utah and London is London.  I could sell my house and buy a HUGE house and a nice car where my parents live-but the thing is I don't want to live in East Podunkville PA.  I want to live 40 miles outside of one of the most cultural and exciting cities in the world.  It all comes down to  what you want.  And that's a choice that only you can make.  Decide what's important to you-is it eating out alot?  driving a big car?  living in a big house?  Or is it living in London close to your family.  You can't have it both ways.  And if you're not going to be happy here then don't move.  Stay in Utah.  

yep, they're poverty level. the difference is that lawyers in utah earn somewhat more than that, whereas it seems a lot of lawyers in the uk aren't earning much more.

seriously, i know plenty of high school dropouts who earn $20 an hour doing unskilled manual labor!

is there any brilliant mathmatician here who can tell me exactly why salaries in utah are lower than london when the latter is richer?

I know they're poverty level....I've lived below poverty level myself.  My point is that it IS possible to live on much less than we sometimes think we need.  As for those who earn $20/hour doing unskilled manual labor, more power to them!  Such jobs are normally short term and at the whim of the local economy.  They offer no security or benefits.  And they are often out in the elements.  I have family members who have worked in construction and it is not an easy way to support your family.

And forgive me for saying so, but your last comment sounded a bit snarky...

For what it's worth, I've not really noticed any difference in what I paid in taxes in the US and what I pay here. Admittedly, I lived in NYC and had high state and municipal taxes. But if I lose the same amount in taxes, at least I have health insurance here.

And did you know, that what the Law Society frowns on the most is fraud and dishonesty.  So, tax evasion wouldn't be a very good idea, they don't even let fare evaders off easy.  

I found this site
http://www.workgateways.com/job-legal.html#salary
Examples of jobs and associated pay ranges for Professional Legal jobs in London:


Position Contract Rate Range
Lawyer (1st year) £14 – £17
Lawyer (5 yrs experience) £25 - £30
Lawyer (10 yrs experience) £40 - £50
Position Salary Range
Lawyer (1st year) £30000 – £50000
Lawyer (5 yrs experience) £45000 - £80000
Lawyer (10 yrs experience) £85000 - £100000

Admittedly, I lived in NYC and had high state and municipal taxes. But if I lose the same amount in taxes, at least I have health insurance here.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 And if you're not going to be happy here then don't move.    

Beauty!
Inspiration for my possible new signature line! 

I don't know if that applies to the legal profession ... working overtime on a regular basis and getting paid for was a completely new experience for me when I came to England. In Germany, at least in the fields I worked in, overtime had to be approved first and was only compensated in free time off, not money.

From what I heard thru my colleagues, it is common to EXPECT being able to do overtime to up the salary. For example, according to my contract, I earned 28k but at the end of the tax year, I had an income of 35k ... just accumulated thru o/t.  The sad thing is, I'm not really much into working my ass off but when living in London, it becomes pretty quickly an addiction. I've gotten the impression anyway that everybody in London seems to work o/t in order to get by.

On another note, I used to work in the financial industry, and we regularly had investment bank lawyers work in our conference rooms AT NIGHT ... I learned they would charge like £250 per hour for doing night shift!

I don't know if that applies to the legal profession ... working overtime on a regular basis and getting paid for was a completely new experience for me when I came to England. In Germany, at least in the fields I worked in, overtime had to be approved first and was only compensated in free time off, not money.

From what I heard thru my colleagues, it is common to EXPECT being able to do overtime to up the salary. For example, according to my contract, I earned 28k but at the end of the tax year, I had an income of 35k ... just accumulated thru o/t.  The sad thing is, I'm not really much into working my ass off but when living in London, it becomes pretty quickly an addiction. I've gotten the impression anyway that everybody in London seems to work o/t in order to get by.

On another note, I used to work in the financial industry, and we regularly had investment bank lawyers work in our conference rooms AT NIGHT ... I learned they would charge like £250 per hour for doing night shift!

The investment bank I work for does not pay for overtime and gives no holiday in lieu of pay for it.  The timesheet that I have to fill out every week only includes 40 hrs for the week.  I find that there is no point to write down more hours as I will not be paid for it.  I normally average between 50 and 60 hrs a week.

bvamin

I think the thing is with lawyers' salaries is the growth potential - starting salaries can be low and once you have 'proved' yourself and you start to bring in work, can go very high.  So, the salaries you have seen may be just starting salaries?

The average UK salary for all employees  is £27,000 p.a., so I would guess most lawyers must be earning more than that ... I just found this article from 2002 ...

Legal Week Students reports

Those entering the legal profession can expect the highest starting salary of any graduates, a new survey has revealed.

Research by the Association of Graduate Recruiters (AGR) reveals an average starting salary in the legal profession of £28,000. This is significantly higher than the second-best paid sector, banking and finance, where the average starting salary is £23,500.

The average graduate starting salary across all sectors is £19,600, an above-inflation rise of 4.2%, with the lowest starting salary anticipated in the accountancy sector (£17,500).

A quarter of companies now offer ‘golden hellos’ to attract top talent, although the top law firms have yet to employ this practice.

Author: Legal Week Students
Source: Legal Week Students
Start Date: 03/11/2002
End Date: 31/03/2003

So, don't worry on behalf of UK lawyers - it seems they're doing just fine!