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Topic: Cut your power bill -- With 21st century snakeoil!  (Read 1177 times)

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Cut your power bill -- With 21st century snakeoil!
« on: October 30, 2008, 06:27:40 PM »
A WARNING

With bills soaring, there seems to be a glut of places trying to sell devices which claim to drastically reduce your electricity bill while still allowing you to continue to use all your appliances the same amount.    Some are being circulated by e-mail, this website being typical:

http://plugandsave.com/

Please, don't be taken in by this garbage.  The "technical" FAQ on that site is so full of pseudo-scientific hogwash that it's hard to know which part to attack first, and the others are all about the same. 

So don't be fooled into parting with your money for one of these devices.  It has as much chance of cutting your power bill as it does of curing the common cold, counteracting baldness, or enabling you to run the 100-yard dash in 10 seconds at the age of 90!   ;)


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Re: Cut your power bill -- With 21st century snakeoil!
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2008, 09:30:50 PM »
I know I only have GCSE Double Science, but physics was always my favourite subject...which make me wonder about...

"The heat leaks power out of your circuit"

Really?

 ;D

Vicky


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Re: Cut your power bill -- With 21st century snakeoil!
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2008, 01:15:17 AM »
... it's worth pointing out that the best argument for why people might think these devices work is a kind of placebo effect - if you are concerned about saving electricity, and are willing to spend $150 dollars on it, you're probably changing your behaviour anyway - so you will notice the savings.

(Needlessly technical note[1]: if you are a large commercial premises with a lot of rotating machinery e.g. big aircon systems or production machinery - you might have your power factor metered, in which case power factor correction (implemented with banks of capacitors) can save you money, but this is not at all relevant to domestic customers. In any event, it doesn't "save electricity" (it may even use more) - it just more efficiently uses the capacity of the distribution network and potentially saves your electricity company money!)

So yes, I wouldn't trust that site at all :)

[1] I suspect that Paul decided to spare you this level of detail, but it might be worth knowing that people use this sort of thing *for a different purpose* in commercial premises in case anyone tries to sell it to you on that basis...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 01:21:09 AM by cabbage »


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Re: Cut your power bill -- With 21st century snakeoil!
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2008, 01:54:55 PM »
... it's worth pointing out that the best argument for why people might think these devices work is a kind of placebo effect

Which is also why the FAQ (and comments in the demonstration video) makes a point of saying this:

http://plugandsave.com/FAQ-And-Knowledgebase/should_i_see_my_meter_slow_immediately_like_on_the_demonstration_video.html

Quote
Should I see my meter slow immediately like on the demonstration video?

Our demonstration video shows an immediate and significant slowdown in our testing equipment however it is unlikely that you will experience the same results when using your PowerSaver with a larger circuit. 

{.....} if you are going to compare the speed of a cycle it's safest to do this before your PowerSaver is plugged in and a few hours later.

Well of course it's safest -- For the snakeoil salesman!   You won't remember precisely how fast the meter was spinning several hours earlier, and even if you could, the electrical load is going to have changed anyway as devices are switched on and off throughout the house.  Even things which you might think are "left on" all the time are actually cycling on and off, e.g. the compressor in your fridge.

Quote
Our PowerSavers F, G & H require time to store electricity internally before redistributing it around the circuit.

Er, right.....  Where's the "rolling on the floor in fits of hysterical laughter" icon?   ;D 

Quote
This may take up to an hour before savings are realized on your circuit.

Ah....  It takes time.  See the pattern folks? 

I suspect that Paul decided to spare you this level of detail

Yep, I didn't want to get too deeply involved with reactive current and power-factor correction, but banks of capacitors do figure into commercial power where you are penalized for a low power factor. 

If I'm reading all the mumbo-jumbo about these units on this site correctly, these units wouldn't even do that job properly, since it appears that the different models are just different size capacitor banks, not switched to compensate for varying inductive loads as is done to maintain a higher p.f. in industrial applications. 

Put one of the big capacitor banks across the supply, then switch off all the inductive loads, and you'll end up being penalized anyway, since excessive capacitive reactance can result in just as low a power factor as excessive inductive reactance.

But no domestic metering ever takes the somewhat complex issue of power factor into account, so it's completely irrelevant as far as home use is concerned anyway. 

Did you notice this on the same page?

Quote
  2. If you are connecting your PowerSaver to a plug socket please remember that savings will only be on that circuit and therefore whilst you'll be making significant savings on that, the meter slowdown will not be as significant as if you have your PowerSaver connected before your breaker panel to save on all circuits.

Better not bore everyone else with a long explanation, but just another piece of nonsense even if we were looking at p.f. correction.

which make me wonder about...

"The heat leaks power out of your circuit"

The whole pseudo-technical description of how these devices are supposed to save power is so ridiculously full of elementary errors and just plain baloney that it's hard to know where to start picking it apart......

When current flows through the resistance of a conductor it generates a certain amount of heat, and if doing no useful work that heat does therefore represent a loss.  But the way they've managed to come up with that is utter nonsense, and the reasons they've giving for how that heat has originated are sheer fantasy. 
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Re: Cut your power bill -- With 21st century snakeoil!
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 01:58:02 PM »

"The heat leaks power out of your circuit"

Really?

 ;D

Vicky

Well, this part is at least true, according to Newton's first law of thermodynamics. Heat is energy and if heat is leaving the system, then energy is leaving the system. Whether it's your wires or your hob, it's consumption that'll show up on your meter. (The site is filled with rubbish, and the device almost certainly won't 'fix' the problems it claims to solve, of course.)

Oops, sorry for addressing something Paul already addressed at the end of his previous post. =)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 02:00:57 PM by ucbmckee »


Re: Cut your power bill -- With 21st century snakeoil!
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 06:15:29 PM »
The electricity supplier bills you for real power, yet provides apparent power. If this product corrects the power factor, which is the ratio of these, it can only save them money, not your household.

The only conceivable way that it could save you money is if you are being charged extra by the electricity supplier for having a low power factor, and this just doesn't happen with domestic customers.


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